Personally, I don't consider Jetblue a "scab mentality" airline. It's like saying Skywest pilots have a "scab mentality". It's throwing a strong word around where it doesn't belong.

Sadly, there are a few vocal haters at this forum. I'd suggest that rather than get into flamefest with them that one use the ignore feature. It does wonders.

Oh Ye Fools....

problem with the meeting is that no one new about it . alpa needs road shows on the east west and midwest, to make it easy for potencial memebers to aatend. JFK, MCO,FLL,ORD,LAX,SFO. meetings on those cities and and email to all JB pilots would help a lot.
if you don't know, you can't go.

The people at Blue shirt are alright by me. If given the chance I would fly for them in a heart beat. There is so much hypocrocy from V, and joey in thier statements. A airline has to start somewhere just like every other one out there. You sit back in your comfortable job and judge other pilots for taking jobs, that if pushed you would accept too if the circumstances required it. What you two are doing is driving away potential union brothers that could help our industry.

One of the reasons there are new ultra low cost airlines is because the industry demands it. The public has demanded lower tickets prices, and better customer service. People feel over charged and taken advantage of for what they get. I tend too agree.

Another reason for managments that keep the pay, benefit low is directly related to supply and demand. I believe that is changing with most airlines and other pilot jobs becoming available. If you noticed Jet BLue just raised their second year CA EMB-190 pay by ten dolllars. Other airlines will do the same because there are more job openings than pilots. I truly believe its becoming a pilots market and will be for some time to come. If that is true then we as airline pilots need to come together instead of boycotting. I am sure V and joey are experienced pilots that are just disgruntled because of the way the industry has treated them and other pilots in the past. I dont blame you for having ill feelings towards the industry. Use that energy to help, promote, and educate the junior pilots of our industry that can help us have and maintain a better way of living.

"There is so much hypocrocy from V, and joey in thier statements."

I agree. What I fear is JB folks are steered away from posting here because of a couple of haters. That would be unfortunate.

Thanks for telling me what the "public demands".

It's time for you to wake up from your fantasy land.

--The "public" doesn't demand a pilot group go to the FAA and ask for Duty Limits Extension Waviers: A non-union pilot group afraid of mangement does.

--The "public" doesn't demand individual 5 year contracts: A union-busting mangement team does.

--The "public" doesn't demand non-sanctioned Duty Limit studies which bust FAR done in secret from the FAA: A mangement team unafraid of the pilot group does.

--The "public" doesn't demand pilots wear blue uniform shirts and clean aircraft cabins: A pilot group scared of mangement willingly accepts it even though it degrades a profession.

--The "public" doesn't demand pilots be interviewed by F/A with High School educations: Mangement does because it pre-conditions them to be docile torwards authority.

This isn't about what the "public demands". It's about what it takes to keep a profession from backsliding further.

Quote: From Joey
--The "public" doesn't demand pilots wear blue uniform shirts and clean aircraft cabins: A pilot group scared of mangement willingly accepts it even though it degrades a profession."

Joey, what degrades the profession is people like you who blame everyone else except yourself for all the problems in this industry. You have no audience! Your tactics go on deaf ears! If you want change you need to rethink your verbal psychology. Reverse psychology is not working my fellow pilot.

Jay Vee,
The public doesn't demand, what? The public wants bus rate fares. They care about little more, unless metal is bent or they are inconvienenced. That's it. Proof? CAL after Lorenzo would never had kept flying. Valujet after their accident would never had continued flying. Blue shirts, cleaning cabins etc.? They do not care....it's fares and fares only. The public would rather pay five dollars for a snickers bar on the aircraft than pay two dollars extra for a fare.

And cleaning cabins? At Delta during the 70s and early 80s, pilots used to do the same, help load bags now and again and do whatever they could to help get an aircraft off the gate near on time. Everyone pulled together to make things work. What a refreshing concept. And don't say, look at Delta now. Management destroyed that esprite de corps. Doesn't degrade the profession, it shows the rest of the employees that you aren't some prima donna too good to try and make the airline work.

Why's everybody hung up on the blue shirts? Give it a rest! I don't miss wearing a white shirt every day, and think the uniforms look pretty good. At least JB pilots don't look like skycaps. I'll wear blue to work (often with a dark colored tie) when I fly as long as it isn't too warm out.

The color of your shirt doesn't make you a professional. It's your actions and how you wear that shirt that dictate your image (and worth), IMHO. I've seen plenty of slobs in white Van Huesen aviator shirts.

I don't think JB folks are the only ones that are leaving the site because of the negativity...

Many folks can handle skyhigh. For the most part, while stubborn, he's been a known variable and kept things civil. Some of the other posters have started to turn these forums into another FI.com.

They're something different, and still look professional. I like them.

But then again, you always get your arm chair CEO's in one place or another :rolleyes:

It appears that you have misconstrued what I'm talking about.

You haven't seen me say a thing about ticket prices, snickers bars, value to the public, airline rivalries, or one airline out-competing the other. I've total avoided mentioning anything to do with the marketplace that the public operates in. You somehow have focused on it as justification for non-union workers. In my opinion, this is somewhat a scab mentality.

My focus has been on work rules, conditions, retirement, crew forces and the things you bargain for through a collective agreement. It really doesn't matter to me what "product" the airline sells; what matters to me is how a crew force protects the work conditions which have become industry standard.

Want to know the difference between a union and a non-union crew force? The union crew force isn't jealous of the non-union crew force. There is not one aspect of JetBlue that "I" have discussed that is better then what a union crew force has bargained for. Union crew forces haven't asked for FAA exemptions to existing rules, don't bargain for individual contracts, and have a unified crew force as a buffer to the management railroading them on work conditions.

The only thing I really need to apologize for is poking fun at the blue shirts. If you are proud of the blue shirt, more power to you. I suppose it answers the ancient zen like question: "When two clowns meet, do they smile?".

Joey,

Before you judge others on union or no union you might want to look in the mirror and realize you share a part in the problems we pilots face when it comes to QOL, FARs, pay etc. Its all our jobs to come together and treat each other with respect. You use the term SCAB like you know what it means, not even close.

You should reread your own post. You whined about what the public "wants" or "deserves". I was merely responding to that post, not your history of posting here. You sir, haven't a clue what the term scab means. You and your buddy greenface throw the word around, which will eventually cause it to lose its impact. Talk to some rEAL pilots (do you know what rEAL means?). I have numerous friends that stood up to "scabs" and either ended out of the industry or never returned to the left seat with other airlines. Talk to those that left the industry after CAL and after EAL and see if they think those at JB have a "scab mentality".

And what did 25 years of union dues get me? 25 great years of work rules and salary, but you know what? When the chips were down, my union not only said it was ok to terminate my pension, they didn't even file a grievance when unqualified payments were stopped without any sort of negotiation. Find some Pan Am guys that were left on the street when PanAm's ALPA swung a deal with DAL management and ask them what their union did for them. TWA? Forget it. Sure that's the local union in all cases. But just like politics, it is always local.

I don't know what your history is, but talk to some that have walked picket lines, watched families fall apart, suicides, bankruptcies, seen guys selling used cars, about what a scab is. It is not about taking jobs at startups that don't use assests of union carriers. These guys will get a union, when they need one. Just like ALPA was started out of a need. Who would have ever thought that ALPA would be back on CAL's property and the president of ALPA a CAL pilot..........So give it a rest with the scab garbage. You sir, are doing more damage to the industry than these guys. Why? Because you are actually pushing them away from organizing with your rants, flamebait, and illogical thought process, if anyone besides me is paying you a bit of attention.

So one of your best hopes for this industry is for all these independant unions to fall under one umbrella a speak with one voice of authority. Ain't never going to happen, but it sure as hell will never happen with your flaming potential union members. Their union will be local, either way, but will it have ties to national? Keep it up JV, the damage and seeds you are sowing will come back to haunt you one day.

I grew up the son of a TI (that's Texas International for those of you that really don't know what a union is), and in my early childhood, went through not one, but two strikes, at TI and CAL. Right now I'm at an ALPA carrier. I've seen and experienced more then any of you can imagine in the dealings with unions.

I never said everyone needs to be in the same union. APA, IPA, ALPA, Teamsters .. I don't care. I'm tired of all of the justifications given by national sized carriers pilot groups who are actively engaged in work rule destroying activities. JB fits the bill to this to a tee. It's not me that better wake up, it's you.

JV, I know all about TIA and NYAir. I had friends at NYA that were labeled with the "scab" crown. Were they? Maybe closer to the truth, using assests from another carrier for union busting. Now they are senior ALPA members at CAL. So with your history with CAL and TIA how do you reconcile in your mind the "new" membership of those at CAL? Is it better or worse that they have been "reborn". Would it have been better for the rEAL pilots and original CAL pilots to stay in their seats (another thread) and "live" to fight another day?

And frankly, I don't have to wake up. I am outta here. And the only reason I am not flying in the US, is that my union did nothing, nothing, to try and preserve our retirements. I don't have any dealings with US carriers anymore and am at a place where unions are ILLEGAL. So I have seen both sides of the coin. Is the protection of a union better? No brainer. But don't ever, ever put all your eggs in a union basket. Those that run them will look out for themselves before anything else. Witnessed first hand, United, USAir, PanAm, TWA, Delta......do I need to go on? This is not union bashing it's a reality check for those that drink a different kind of kool aid. We could argue this point adinfinitum. No need to. But your cutesy blue shirt bashing, the bashing of their esprite de corps, calling them not true professional pilots diminishes and lessens any credibility you have.

Personally, I have no problem with V or Professor. They are welcome to their opinions. I think that most of the pilots on this forum are able to see past their "slanted and self serving" rhetoric. Unfortunately, this industry started down a bad side road when deregulation was enacted.

Ironically, V and Professor preach that ALPA or some other type of union is a must at B6 and that the fact that we do not currently have one is the sole reason for the demise of the industry pay scales. V, Professor...aren't you guys ALPA? Why did your union allow for your pay scale decrease? I'm not sure that I understand...you mean the union couldn't stop the decline? You're ALPA, c'mon, you shouldn't have lost a cent! You should have been a stronger and more cohesive group...why give up so easy? Oh wait...perhaps the many ALPA regional carriers that have pilots starting at 15K a year while flying RJ's into the same busy airports as the rest of us set the ground work for the decline of the major airline pay. These poor guys should be paid much more than they are, however, ALPA sees this differently and actually negotiated and endorsed these terribly low pay scales for "jet equipment" pilots.

You have got to be kidding me! As a whole our industry has so many problems that have brought us all to our knees from the once lofty heights that many of us were once sitting. B6 did not do this...we kind of helped ourselves down the stairs in some cases. In many cases the government simply pushed us down the stairs with the "anti-labor" bankruptcy court judges. Oh yeah...bankruptcy...did B6 cause that too? I was under the misconception that poor management had something to do with it...just a guess.

You are obviously Flamebaiting or completely ignorant of what has been going on in the industry. Which is it?

The drop in pay scales wasn't because ALPA didn't do it's job, they did a hell of a good job, considering what they were faced with. Before the demise of the industry, what carriers were the highest paid with the best benefts? Delta, UAL, Northwest and even USAir, you know the ons represented by ALPA. For my esteemed colleagues of American (APA) and Southwest (SWAPA) they rode the coatails of the ALPA contracts and garnered further improvements.


Nobody likes to take pay and benefit cuts, especially us Pilots, but when you have a Presidential Administration that is completely Anit-labor and allows (actually condones) job outsourcing and permits MGT the use of liberal Bankruptcy Laws to void a UNION contracts and the appoints Bankruptcy Judges who allow it, just what miracle to you expect from ALPA or anyone else for that matter.

What do you think the pay at UAL, USAir. DELTA and Northwest would have dropped to if they didn't have a Union (Specifically ALPA) fighting in the courts. What do you think would happen at JETblue if they went into bankruptcy without any Union or contract protection? What legal entity would fight for the JB Pilots in court........or any other Non Union carrier. Even more importantly, ask yourself where did the payrates come down to? The Capt 320 payrates at most of the Bankrupt properties 320 have dropped to Jetblue levels. I don't blame you personally as I know what it is like to have to feed a family. But to say the wages at Jetblue and other small (mostly non-union carriers) don't have a negative effect is ignorant. You guys need to organize and get a contract. Realistically your first one won't be legendary, but the sooner you guys get on the band wagon the better off every Pilot in the indusrty will be.

I know the Pilots of NW, Delta, UAL and USAir (and many other Airlines Comair, Mesa etc) are really PO'd. They have a right to be, but blaming ALPA for what has happened is misguided.

Wake up man!

In V´s case it was binding arbitration that was the cause of our paycut. Binding arbitration that has been on the property long before he was hired. It´s gone now and we are currently in negotiations. It might take a while, but we will be raising the bar.

As far as regional pay, it´s been a shame for a long time. However, most of us who flew for regionals realized it was a stepping stone. Don´t mean to hurt anybody´s feelings but that´s the truth. With the decline in pay and work rules at the majors more and more regional pilots are trying to make it a career.

V, Sorry for hijacking your thread.

this is a contradicting statement. please clarify your point. btw, the regionals are becoming less and less of a stepping stone. esp those like rah and skw., e.g.

As I have said in other threads...there were and still are many other airlines that started prior to B6 and their pay scales have been low for many years. In fact, B6 offered a pay scale that was above some of these carriers that have been around since the 90's. Many of the legacy ALPA carrier A320 pay rates are actually lower than the current rates at B6. Did B6 cause that? No, as you stated Red, the courts escalated the process and the respective managements took full advantage. B6 had nothing to do with it, period.

With regard to B6 having protection if we go to bankruptcy...obviously we have nothing. We have nothing now which is why our E190 pay scales have been so terribly dismal. I agree with one thing for certain...without a union we have zero protection from anything. What the company wants is what happens. However, in bankruptcy with ALPA or any other union, as soon as the contract is gone...union carriers have no protection either. You are simply at the free will of the bankruptcy court judge. A320 pay rates at Airways are still terribly low and they have been out of bankruptcy for awhile now. In fact, those rates are still lower than rates at B6. So...when does the union bring those rates back to pairety with pre 911 scales?

ALPA is not the target here, nor is it the point. Honestly, I have been with ALPA for 20 years now and I have had good and bad. Surprisingly, more bad than I believe should have been do to politics between the union and management. Any union could be mentioned, however, it is ALPA that continues to allow the dismal pay scales for regional airline pilots flying jet equipment. Stepping stone or not...a post 911 regional flying job is now considered a career. Furthermore, what about the guys that are happy with a regional career, even pre 911? Do those guys deserve less pay for flying complex regional 70-90 seat jets simply because they are content in their current position?

I am sorry Redeye, I don't agree with that at all. If we are going to talk as though unions are the end all, be all and the right way to go in this business regardless of everything else that is happening then we need to protect everyone. Not just the majors, every single union airline. Are you willing to leave your seat and strike in support of ASA, ComAir, or even another major airline to obtain fair wages? I kind of doubt it.

Pay is only one of the plethora of items a union negotiates. Please show me just one instance where I mentioned it in reguard to JetBlue. You won't be able to find it.

Just to reset the issues where JetBlue is destroying the industry and is a danger to every Professional Pilot:

--Independant negotiated 5 year contracts

--Working with the company to destroy FAR Duty Limits via extending them

--Allowing non-sanctioned and FAR violating studies without FAA consent to attempt to back-end FAR Duty Limit extenions

--A non-union corporate attitude that squashes and chills unionization

Now, the facts. Every contract is exactly the same, and I didn't negotiate a thing. I knew what I was signing when I started here. I am in my sixth year at JB, and I didn't have to do a thing to begin my sixth year. Not one of our pilots "worked with the company to destroy FAR duty limits." The test was approved by our POI, the flights were flown, the data was collected, and the program was dropped. Show me one FAR that's changed as a result of these flights. By the way, the Feds realized their mistake, were embarrassed by it, and didn't fine us one cent. How about DL's changing of the rules as far as their Intl flights. Not one mention of them for some reason in all the ALPA talk. Lastly, a "non-union corporate attitude that squashes and chills unionization?" Does an airline have to have a union to be successful? Why, because that's the way it's always been? I have no doubt that we will be unionized at some point, but constant extreme rants from the likes of you and green face won't help your cause, that I know for sure.

I think the real number was around thirty JetBlue pilots were used in the study.

Any Union airline would have squashed this because they would have had the seen that it degraded the profession.

JetBlue pilots don't stand a chance.

You missed my point entirely. You don't think JB's low rates or other Non Union carriers affects the rest of the indusrty?
In my previous post, I said I don't blame you personally. But you mention USAir Pay rates being slightly below Jet Blue..(Where were they before 9/11?)...........BTW....none of the ALPA contracts were voided (so far) ALPA was at least able to negotiate their concessions (Unlike the FA's and Mechanics of Northwest). All the MEC's agree that they had to give away alot of things they fought hard for and acheived over the last 20 years.

But why do you think the 320 pay rates are all + or Minus a few dollars of Jet Blue wages. If you guys had a higher hourly rate (as well as the other NON union carriers) what do you think USAir's and UALs 320 payrates would have fallen to? I know it is pure conjecture, but I am willing to bet it would have been higher if your rates were higher................And BTW USAir is currently in negotiations and I'm sure you would like to see them get a 15-30 $/hr bump, as it would only high lite your low rates.

As far as what the Reigonal guys are willing to work for..............Your own admission of JB's E-190 payrates have set the bar low for the rest of the Regional guys. (Oh and USAir is getting E-190's too do you think JB's low rates have a negative effect on their efforts?
It is certainly up to them to negotiate their own deals but as long as there are many NON Union carriers with low pay scales, it makes it very difficult for the Unions to negotiate higher rates.........wouldn't you agree?

All I am saying is that we (all of us professional Pilots) would be better off iif we were covered under one Union Umbrella. A pipe dream ? Maybe, but we would be better off. If you guys Unionize and get your 320 rates up it benefits us al plain and simple.

Again, not pointing the finger, just stating the obvious. And to your last point, I would love to see a National SOS for a day and Yes I would be wiling to do it. (and I am lucky work a carrier that is considered "the place to be" right now)a It would be extemely hard to pull off. It would be easier under 1 union banner, wouldn't you agree............BTW I welcome JB Pilots on my jumpseat. The few JB Pilots I had ride were former ALPA (Furloughed) folks who want JB to have a UNION and a contract. Where do you stand??

I don't worship ALPA, it is just that they are really the only game in town when it comes to an organization that best protets the interests of professional pilots.......warts and all.

So come on Jet BLue guys.......sign those cards, get a Union and a "collective bargained" agreement.

Professor, who do you work for? I would like to know what ALPA carrier to apply to when we fold...:cool:

Oh, you won't fold; you'll just live like slaves.

So you won't say who you work for...pretty much what I figured...

Any union airline would have squashed it because if the rules were changed it would mean more productive flying for the pilots already on the property which also means not "as many" new hires to cover the available flying. In other words...more jobs...more dues to the union...that is the unions interest...not the degredation of the industry. You are so full of it. Trust me, the union has self serving issues just like any other entity.

The Union is US, (apparently not you)
Gee, more pilots hired means everyone one moves up the list. Yeap, that would be a bad thing.

Actually doing JFK-OAK-JFK outbacks would be a bad thing...........................dam those Unionists ofr trying to stop it.

Red, first I would like to say that I understand that you mean nothing personally, nor do I take it as such. I enjoy the banter. However, pre 911 rates at Airways were great until 911 happened. At one point the Airways contract was the best in the industry. However, B6 was around since February of 2000. The Airways rates did not miss a beat until 911, the following bankruptcy and the management cuts that were backed by the liberal courts. B6 had absolutely no effect on their pay rates until a tremendous amount of outside forces all came together to topple the industry. It was only then that B6 became the Albatross on industry pay scales. All of the sudden B6 destroyed the pay scales...not so. Do I think that pay scales would have fallen to where they are without B6? Of course I do, in fact, perhaps lower. The pay scales at B6 were higher than some of the other carriers that had been around much longer than B6 so it is possible that B6 pay scales actually "stopped" the major airline pay scales from falling further than they did if you are convinced that B6 is the benchmark for post 911 pay. Hell, V and Professor should be thanking us! Hey guys...you are welcome...no problem, glad we could help. Even if V won't let us ride his jumpseat. I would just use a pass on one of his flights anyways. :)

Also, Red, yes, I agree that all at B6 is not right. The 190 pay scales are truly a product of a management that did what it could get away with since there were so many pilots on the street. I don't agree with it nor do I condone it, but it is what it is and also without a union, yes, we have zero recourse. However, there are many things at B6 that are very right that would not be with a union on the property. I've seen and been a part of the union politics and they truly suck. I have seen a lot of carnage left behind from a union negotiated deal. Bottom line, business is business. So when the junior guys are sold out for the benefit of the more senior guys and layoffs happen at least those guys on the street get an Air Inc membership and maybe a preferential interview.

Does anybody even really know what the B6 pay scales are here or are you all just assuming that you do?

No, it means the company would be able to stay lean and actually keep their pilots on the property during bad times and avoid furloughs. Hey, I might actually still have a job instead of that Air Inc membership, all costs paid. Cool.

Said like someone who truly has no respect or understanding of the industry....

So instead of calling you a knob, sc@b, idiot, or mangement material let me give you some more work productivity enhancements you might look at:

--Loss of vacation days

--Stand-Up Overnights

--Loss of 1 in 7 legalities

--Decrease in layover requirements

--Increase 100 hour in a month legality

Where does it end? At what point will JetBlue pilots draw the line? The 8 in 24 has been an industry standard since the days of Pan Am (who put the rule in place).

As I am far removed from the industry, my opinions are expressed solely for the support of a system of which I believe Jetblue and it's blue shirt clowns have dismantled since September 11th.....individual contracts, below standard payscales, cleaning airplanes, flight attendant interviews, etc And so I don't single out any group, I also include the majority of "regional" airlines and their hunt for flying bigger and better equipment at reduced rates as if they should be a "CAREER" airline. What a disillusioned and pathetic state the airline industry finds itself!!! I can't remember how many times I heard crusty old f#@$s speak of regional jets revolutionizing the industry as their counterparts at the majors were losing routes, people, and morale. And young bucks would also be drunk on this koolaid that their jobs were what the airline life was all about. They would speak with such pride as their sh#t airlines grew at the expense of others. I firmly believe these tools to have been former rejects of the major airline interview process, and this being their only form of retribution. Jetblue and others like it have taken a job that was once the envy of many professional careers and turned it into a circus where pilots clean airplanes, payscales suffer for growth, and contracts are individualized not unionized. I remember a few years back that guys were talking about JB as if it were some savior to their crap regional job, something that would remove them from a lifestyle of overworked mediocrity. What a joke. I raise my glass to many more unprofitable years for the JB team, and that this pathetic breed of regional pilot remain regional pilots for their long pathetic career. This pessimism runs deep for what was once a GREAT industry has taken a turn for the worse, and although these pilots are not the only ones to blame, they have definitely contributed to the problem.

Your entitled to your opinion.............

Furloughs suc no matter who you work for, but if you have been in this industry for any length of time, you learn that they come with the territory.

Many furloughees from ALPA carriers got their Medical premiums paid for a couple years after, and yes they got a Paid Air inc membership..................What will your guys get if a furlough at JB happens? (not wishing 4 it).

Many ALPA pilots Living in the Gulf that were wiped out by Katrina and Wilma had 0% loans and other assistance offered by fellow ALPA pilots.

ALPA was singularly responsible for getting the FFDO program.
ALPA is responsible for many of the current Protective FAR's
What Positive things have the Pilots of Jet Blue done for this career as a whole?

Bottom line is you can't say this industry would be better off without Unions.

No offense but I couldn't make Jet Blue or others like it a career. A stepping stone maybe, but not a career. Good luck in you and Your fellow Jet Blue Pilots getting significant Pay and work rule enhacements so that the Union represented carriers Have a Bar to shoot for.

First off, Pro...has any of this changed? Didn't think so. Why is it that some of our archaic rules in the FAA are just fine to override when flying international...heck, look at supplimental.

Too many carriers already do stand up overnights, where have you been? They have been around for years. Which leads into reduced rest for overnights...what do you think a stand up overnight is? It is a reduced rest overnight that allows you to go to a hotel for maybe 5 hors if you are on time. 100 hour month, doesn't part 135 allow 120 hour month now? Where is your beloved union protection for those guys. You are so full of ^&*(.

Once again guys, everybody is barking about how bad B6 pay is...does anyone know what it is???

dude your on the APC forum, but since your not capable of looking yourself....ill spoonfeed

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airli...c/jetblue.html

Yeap.....CAP A320 rate is $110/hr yr 1 maxing out @ $147/hr in year 12.

How many guys are currently getting the 12 year rate :confused: ??

It could be $300 and wouldn't matter if no one has that longevity yet? as it could be changed at the whim of MGT.

BTW, hourly rates only tell part of the story.
What are your RIGS/ work rules?
What type of Company paid Pilot disability do you have?
What type of FAA certificate action protection do ou have?
Who will come to your Aide if you are involved in an accident/incident?
What type of retirement do you have?


All most of us are saying is we need to get everyones rates back up. In order to do that the NON Union carriers need to organize so they can legally negotiate. Without Union representation all you can do is beg.
We went through that at FedEx and finally said enough..............That is the Gist of what most of us are saying.......Period

Well, Red, I wish I had the pay scales in front of me...I don't. However, I do know that your pay scales do not reflect the new pay and benefits package that B6 is about to have issued.

Let's go off of your numbers for a first year CA at say 83 hours credit. The grand total before taxes would be 9845.00 per month for a first year CA. What you didn't mention is that all hours above 70 are paid at time and a half. Basically, at 7 year pay I am grossing over 11K per month, not including per diem. Our new contract will improve that by 5%. At my seniority level that credit would allow me anywhere from 16 to as many as 20 days off in a month. Our min days off in a month is 12 and in most cases only reserves are held to that minimum. A junior line holder normally averages 14 to possibly 16 days off per month.

To answer all of the other questions I once again would need to look over a contract which I do not have in front of me.