An Open Letter to the Boys of B6
 

OK so I tried to use a little humour to open your eyes. From the content of your response I observe that you are oblivious to what you are doing to the industry.

Every chip you take degrades the industry for the rest of us and ultimately yourselves. Understand: I am not talking about industry rivalries, competition, marketing, slots. I am talking about how every decision by your pilot group to allow mangement to lower the industry standard without opposition degrades what other pilot groups must deal with; even pilot groups which will never be in competition with JetBlue in any market.

I have often questioned myself: "What will it take for JetBlue pilots to stop the decisions made by management?"

Turning the pilot group into "contract labor"? No, they accpted it without a whimper.

Getting the pilot group to go to the FAA with the company for FAR Duty Limit relief? No, the pilot group gladly did this.

After being turned down for the FAR Duty Limits allowing the company to use the pilot group as unofficial lab rats to back door the FAA? No. Approx. 30 pilots participated in this dangerous attempt to sneak the cheese past the rat.

How about uniform policy? The pilot group doesn't even have backbone enough to change this. They allow themselves to be dressed like "Bozo the Clown" imitators.

There is an old saying: "If you are not with me, you're against me."

It is becoming more clear all the time.

Boys of B6, you are against me and my industry.

Amen, bro, amen. And that, in a nutshell, is why I won't give them a jumpseat ride. Professionals don't stab other professionals in the back.

And how exactly is using the jumpseat as a political tool professional behavior? Says a lot about yourself.

I personally think that you could do more good by "educating" these folks when they travel on your aircraft than kicking them away. The only thing you're likely to do is hurt your fellow employees when you breed ill will against your company by denying them a jumpseat.

Yo, Josh. Come back in about 15 years when you have some major airline experience. Then your opinions may have some validity. Ever heard of CRM? I don't have time to "educate" anyone on the flight deck. And there wouldn't be any "education" going on if they're sitting in the back getting a free ride under false pretenses.

So, give the "educate" them argument a rest, son.

I guarantee you that in 15 years, I won't have any major airline experience - I'm quite happy working outside of the airline world, thanks. (It's nice to not have to put up with the BS like I've seen on these boards and be treated like a valuable asset by your boss.)

Besides if you think flying for a regional is all that different from the majors, it isn't. My 5 years in both seats of the CRJ and other types is more than enough for me to know that CRM is CRM in all areas of aviation. Besides the guys at the majors read the same USAToday that I do.

Justify how you want, it's still UNprofessional to deny a jumpseat based on politics of the cockpit (with the exception of scabs).

You are such the wised aged one. Talk to me when you have 28 years in this industry, national union experience, MEC, negotiating committees, son. I do, and I think your opinions are crap for union building, and obviously national ALPA, your js coordinator and those trying to build a national concensus disagree with you. But "it's my toy and my airline says what I can do with it" ref. JS. You talk about CRM. Your attitude which you demonstrate here, son, reflects negatively on what CRM skills you might think you have, son. You're probably right, you wouldn't have time to educate anyone on your flightdeck with your constant bitching. son.

for WHATEVER it's worth velocipede, i'm on your side and agree 100 % with you. I think the people who don't agree are the same people who are potential b6'ers and maybe also potential sc@&*:mad:

Atta girl, HMP. There are more of us out there with the same opinion than these jamokes would care to think.

P.S. Nothing amuses me more than 5 year regional pilots who think they "know" what the airline biz is all about.

P.P.S. I thought I was on someone's ignore list. Guess not.

Velocipede, HMP, et al.:

I'm sure the employees of your company that rely on Jetblue for commuting would just love for you to start a jumpseat war based upon your own definitions of professionalism...

VP- that's fine... I call it how I see it. You've stated yourself on here that "we are our own worst enemy". Using something like the jumpseat as a "tool" to punish any pilot group only has the potential to come back and bite you in the ass.

I "know" enough about the airline biz to know that I don't want any part of it any more thanks to one track folk like yourself.

Again, for those of you with short memories...No self-respecting ALPA pilot should be asking for free rides from pilots who undercut our contracts.

..........

Who do you work for, Velocipede?

B6 will be unionized one day, but it wont be ALPA. Most here have a bitter taste from ALPA.

Very true. ALPA funded a meeting for B6 pilots, and only 14 out of 1800 showed up. All expenses paid, hotels, food, etc, and 14 showed up. It definately won't be ALPA. And, with all the pilot groups they've 'sold out' recently, who can blame B6 pilots?

Once again, it seems we have someone who can't differentiate between ALPA National and the mistakes made by LOCAL MECs.

Oh well...

I'm sure there's enough of that erroneous 'thinking' in the B6 pilot group that will guarantee any B6 Union will be an in-house affair. A few years of JBPA and perhaps they will see the wisdom of affiliating with a National Union, be it ALPA, the Teamsters or someone else.

Whatever way they eventually go, it will be a step in the right direction.

Hey Green Face... why are you even responding to this thread. You don't even have the balls to tell a pilot of a non union airline why you are denying him your jump seat to his face. You do a great job on this site but... it's like hiding behind your mother's skirt.

I believe the lawyers would call that "assuming a fact not in evidence." You make a lot of assumptions here, slick. Virtually all of them are wrong.

I don't follow your logic.

The JetBlue pilots have/are/continue to sell out every professional in who makes a living in the cockpit.

In doing so they forget all the sacrifices made by the union pilots who made the industry a desireable career.

Are you saying that because of some perceived wrong by ALPA that the JetBlue pilot group has a free pass to degrade work rules/conditions/pay rates/collective bargaining further?

Open Letter to the Boys of B6
 

OK so I tried to use a little humour to open your eyes. From the content of your response I observe that you are oblivious to what you are doing to the industry.

Every chip you take degrades the industry for the rest of us and ultimately yourselves. Understand: I am not talking about industry rivalries, competition, marketing, slots. I am talking about how every decision by your pilot group to allow mangement to lower the industry standard without opposition degrades what other pilot groups must deal with; even pilot groups which will never be in competition with JetBlue in any market.

I have often questioned myself: "What will it take for JetBlue pilots to stop the decisions made by management?"

Turning the pilot group into "contract labor"? No, they accpted it without a whimper.

Getting the pilot group to go to the FAA with the company for FAR Duty Limit relief? No, the pilot group gladly did this.

After being turned down for the FAR Duty Limits allowing the company to use the pilot group as unofficial lab rats to back door the FAA? No. Approx. 30 pilots participated in this dangerous attempt to sneak the cheese past the rat.

How about uniform policy? The pilot group doesn't even have backbone enough to change this. They allow themselves to be dressed like "Bozo the Clown" imitators.

There is an old saying: "If you are not with me, you're against me."

It is becoming more clear all the time.

Boys of B6, you are against me and my industry.

Isn't this a duplicate thread to one you posted in the main forum?

What, you don't like our blue shirts? I'll explain it. It goes along with the common blue theme as in our name, or the sky, or how reading you post makes me feel (haha).

I read the NWA FA's were denied the right to strike. Good thing they have a union that allows such actions. Looks like union rights are being eroded. Where do I sign up?

right... what they should have done was not resist at all. not try to make any statement whatsover. maybe they should disband their union because once that happens, maybe management will start working with them.

and yes, the blue shirts are disgusting. you look like a flight attendant

B6 Pilots get Raises
 

Don't look now, but JETBLUE just gave their F/Os a BIG raise, and added 401k contributions for retirement. Looks like pay AND benefits just went UP.

Details hopefully to follow on this site...

what happened to gman?

Sorry you don't like blue. Every other monkey wears white. I guess we should too.

What happened indeed. Coincidentally, I happened to find out who G-man is last week. He actually happens to be a very good friend of mine and a hell of a good guy. While I won't give you his entire history, I can shed some light on his hatred of ALPA. He was hired by a legacy, furloughed, sent down to one of their regionals and I think furloughed again. All the money he paid ALPA did two things for him: JACK and SQUAT.

He got banned from these boards for posting something that was apparently a little too controversial. I never read the post and don't know exactly what it said. Even Flightinfo would give a guy a second chance by putting him in the penalty box to try to show him the error of his ways. This board didn't even do that. While Gman's style of posting is different than my own, I doubt what he said was so horrible that it warranted a life-long ban.

Any moderators care to comment? Give the guy a second chance.

We wore blue till about 96 or 97..hope your future is as bright!

I have met of the founders...great guy...maybe freightdog could respond....hint hint...
i also know a lot of guys who like to come on here and bust some stones once in a while..myself included...but it's just a little fun...hey freightdog..what did he do?

I like JetBlue and their pilots. You're all great to jumpseat on. Those who beat you guys are just jealous.

A couple of questions. Some of you have said that by working for JB etc. is undercutting your contracts at your airline by accepting lower pay which therefore damages your efforts to make more money, benefits etc. right? Have any of you ever taken less pay than your brothers at other airlines when you were voting on your contracts? The answer is YES. Your pilot groups voted on contracts in the past and the chips fell were they did. V said that when some airlines took pay cuts that they had no control or choice I think. Sure they/you did! If the end result was not what you wanted then your fellow/union brothers sold you out. So if that is the case V, then you need to get a list (if legal) of all your brothers and sisters who voted yes, wait not just at your airline but every airline with ALPA who had a contract and voted yes, get their names and refuse their jumpseat too. V, you also said professionals dont stab professionals in the back. Your fellow union guys/gals that voted yes falls under your category it seems. You say you are a professional but you stab too BUBBA. You contradict yourself all the time. I am a professional but I am going to persecute every pilot of an non union for your own political purpose than has no realistic impact other than causing a jumpseat war and that is why you (Mr. Chicken Little) have not revealed(confirmed) where you work. Point the finger and it keeps coming back your way. I wonder Why! An airline recently took a vote and they voted yes for the contract. Under your philosophy they stabbed you and every one else when they could have made a different choice. But they didnt. Everyone has a choice when they vote or accept a job somwhere and everyone should share some responsibility. By the way I support ALPA but your ways is not supported by them. Oh now you will tell me I need a history lesson and have no idea how the industry works! That is debateable but you are unprofessional.

o boy...here we go yet again...

"Even Flightinfo would give a guy a second chance"
"Any moderators care to comment?"

This isn't flightinfo, for one.

"Busting balls" as a form of personal entertainment should be, and is, discouraged as it does nothing but cause flamefests. That's a flightinfo thing, not an APC thing.

What the guy did, I have no idea. But somebody at a higher pay grade than me canned him. That's good enough for me.

Perhaps you could assist the guy in contacting the admins. Maybe they would agree with you. I don't think you'll get an answer from them at the forums.

Nah, I haven’t heard from any pilots of non union carriers being denied a jump seat for that fact. So lets say it is a fact, and you just don’t have the balls.


Wrong again Ace. I have been in aviation long before you were 30 seconds of pleasure and daddy’s little squirt.

About reports to your chief pilot…. I knew your reply would be exactly what I what it would be. You talk a mean game on this site. But son, you just don’t have the balls to face any pilot from non-union carriers about your tenets.

In the past, I have had to deny rides to people for reasons which are clearly stated in our FOM ranging from not enough room on the jet to problems with credentials being expired. I don’t hide behind my company’s FOM, gate agent, or my F/O when a fellow crew dog can’t ride on my jet. When a jump seat is denied, I have the courtesy to personally tell the individual why he/she can’t ride the jet. I don’t lie, nor do I leave the ill deed to the gate agent, or the F/O. But NEVER!!!! and I mean NEVER have I denied a jump seat for same reasons as you.

If you feel that strongly about pilots of non union airlines, you NEED to get out their and opine your views! Hide behind the mask so your identity won’t be revealed.

Amen to that!!!!

Don’t let the Green Faces of this industry be like an interfering mother en-law. Labor wise, you guys just continue doing exactly what you are doing at your own pace. You know more than anyone else what goes on behind those “bedroom doors”.

I will help Gman out in that manner. Since I never read the post, I'm trying to get the info from him on what happened. Then I will appeal to the admin/moderators for a little forgiveness. I just figured they might happen upon this post and share an answer for all to read.

The big problem with what you have stated is that if a group of pilots represented by a Union took a pay cut, the contract was voted into place collectively. At JetBlue everyone is an independant contractor.

In addition a union would go in and stop things like FAR busting unsanctioned studies, FAR duty limit extension request, ect...

Everyone seems to have forgotten that a Union is there for more than pay issues.

Unions are a unified force against actions taken by the company and a barrier against unsafe operation practices. They allow the individual to appraoch the company with concerns while not putting his job into danger.

It is abundantly clear that this is lacking to non-existent at JetBlue.

Each time a JetBlue pilot joins hands with the company to do a FAR bustin unsanctioned study, goes to the FAA asking for FAR duty relief you are stabbing me and every other Professional pilot in the back who fought for these standards. It is a Sc@b mentality.

What is it going to take to get you to understand it just isn't about pay?

JoeVee,

You've pretty much said it all. However, there a none so blind as those that will not see. Most of these guys don't (or won't) understand that ALPA is democracy with a little d.

They just don't get the fact that furloughs are a MANAGEMENT decision, not an ALPA decision. Instead of placing the blame for furloughs where it belongs (MANAGEMENT) they blame ALPA for not doing something (what?) to prevent it.

Likewise with pay issues. MANAGEMENT is the one that took US, UA and DL to bankruptcy court to vacate thier labor agreements and steal the pilot's pay and retirement. And under the same threat, NWA had no option but to acquiesce or face the same draconian furloughs and/or bankruptcy.

Both these situations are the polar opposite of taking a non-Union job knowing full well the pay and benefits sets the standard for other airline managers to match. As long as there are pilots willing to sell themselves for less, airline managers from other airlines will seek to pay commensurate wages with the lowest level paid for flying comparabale airplanes.

When you add intentional non-compliance with FAR flight/duty time limitations in order to help your MANAGEMENT attain duty time limit waivers, it is no wonder that pilots turn away in disgust whenever they see a blue shirt coming.

So, what you are saying is that in the final analysis, unions are powerless unless they walk off the job. Powerless to stop the managements' decisions to bk the airlines, powerless to stop furloughs, powerless to prevent paycuts (even though voted on) powerless to stop the termination of retired pilots' pensions (with the help of local Alpas). Powerless to do anything other than walk, then take the chance that the job won't be there at the end. Seems like what you are "educating" everyone about here, Major Green face, is that individual unions are weak in the face of a hardball management.

Age 60, for instance. The only way you will ever stop that train is through an SOS (suspension of service) by everyone. But since you are probably ALPA and have begun the alienation of the B6 pilots against ALPA if ever an SOS did come down the line will there be a national consensus by the unions at B6, VA, SB, not to mention the SWA union, UPS, AirTran and of course the big dog American. All non ALPA carriers probably not adhering to ALPA's call for an SOS over some issue.

So continue to act like a child with your toy, alienate all the pilots at the new upstarts, don't acknowledge them on the hotel van-you are doing a hellva job bringing the industry back to the standards it once was. IE, if you think the unions have the power to do the above. As I have said, these pilots groups will unionize when THEY feel the need. And wouldn't it be nice to have these groups speaking as one at a true national union, instead of ten voices on capital hill.

To continue this, how do you feel about the "new" membership of former CAL scabs back in the national union? But I forget, you don't answer questions, just shoot from the hip.

Indeed. The Unions are powerless as long as there are sc@bs and people willing to work for sc@b mentality companies.

Just so we are clear: I am talking about people like you and the JetBlue boys.

Rock your wings if you read me.