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The TA is finally here
seems like this should have its own thread.
i have to say i'm underwhelmed by the reserve section. and the health insurance section. i really don't know what to think about the vacation stuff. is it a big improvement? |
Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2620915)
seems like this should have its own thread.
i have to say i'm underwhelmed by the reserve section. and the health insurance section. i really don't know what to think about the vacation stuff. is it a big improvement? Serious question. |
^^^ are you implying that the highlights and the letter of implementation are not real?
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Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2620915)
seems like this should have its own thread.
i have to say i'm underwhelmed by the reserve section. and the health insurance section. i really don't know what to think about the vacation stuff. is it a big improvement? |
i wasn't trying to jump the gun. they've posted 3 documents, pretty crammed full of information. way more than the bullet points. i realize that the full language isn't there. but it will be tomorrow, they said.
i figured we could get started talking specifics (because these are specifics, these are not rumors [many rumors I've heard over the past week have been way off]), and the full language will only continue what this starts. i'm not trying to force anyone to vote one way or another right now. i'm trying to start a dialogue that will be a month long. |
Originally Posted by seekingblue
(Post 2620928)
http://jbumec.alpa.org/portals/jbu/ta2018/ta-highlights.pdf
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Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2620915)
seems like this should have its own thread.
i have to say i'm underwhelmed by the reserve section. and the health insurance section. i really don't know what to think about the vacation stuff. is it a big improvement? |
Originally Posted by seekingblue
(Post 2620932)
I think the scheduling section is the highlight. I’m underwhelmed by some of the other sections, but the scheduling section is a place where they got it right.
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Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2620933)
i definitely see a lot to like in the scheduling section, too. especially in the comparison guide. i think they pulled some big wins in there.
The insurance, payrates, etc Are sort of meh. Not great, not deal breakers. |
The vote passed 7-5. That in and of itself is telling.
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Originally Posted by seekingblue
(Post 2620936)
Agree. That will likely be what causes me to vote yes.
The insurance, payrates, etc Are sort of meh. Not great, not deal breakers. And it's this "It's good enough" mentality among our pilot group that will be the reason it passes, not because it should. |
Originally Posted by BunkerF16
(Post 2620953)
The vote passed 7-5. That in and of itself is telling.
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Originally Posted by CAirBear
(Post 2620973)
I’m confused by this. I thought it was sent to you guys with a vote of 12-0. What changed?
12-0 vote was to send NC back with company to finalize language and implementation schedule. 7-5 vote was overall TA final MEC vote. Underwhelming to say the least. This entire process is a JB management wet dream. |
Originally Posted by CAirBear
(Post 2620973)
I’m confused by this. I thought it was sent to you guys with a vote of 12-0. What changed?
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Originally Posted by jstyle13
(Post 2620984)
That was just a 3 page highlight of the AIP. The MEC voted 12-0 just to release that to the pilot group and then go thru the full TA vetting/vote process which concludes today.
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The TA is finally here
Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2620915)
seems like this should have its own thread.
i have to say i'm underwhelmed by the reserve section. and the health insurance section. i really don't know what to think about the vacation stuff. is it a big improvement? Genuinely wondering what in the reserve section you didn’t like? I thought that section was really really good. Especially when compared to everyone else. Maybe I missed something? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
(Post 2620986)
Genuinely wondering what in the reserve section you didn’t like? I thought that section was really really good. Especially when compared to everyone else. Maybe I missed something?
i was really really hoping for something like united has, where (as i understand it, as was told to me in the past, and maybe isn't current), everyone is long call, until converted, and you can only be converted 8 days a month or something like that. this shows us having long call, but not everyone will have long call. i will have to wait to see examples of how it will play out, because i do not understand the percentages they are talking about vis a vis long call vs. short call. the 4 bid periods vs. 2 bid periods for daily reserve is a good thing. well, i am really saying that it is all an improvement. there is nothing in there that goes backwards. it is definitely better than what we have now, but i was really hoping for something extraordinary. |
The TA is finally here
Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2621013)
i was hoping for even more days off (i had seen the 5 hour daily guarantee, and hoped the 75 hour reserve guarantee would mean 15 work days per month).
i was really really hoping for something like united has, where (as i understand it, as was told to me in the past, and maybe isn't current), everyone is long call, until converted, and you can only be converted 8 days a month or something like that. this shows us having long call, but not everyone will have long call. i will have to wait to see examples of how it will play out, because i do not understand the percentages they are talking about vis a vis long call vs. short call. the 4 bid periods vs. 2 bid periods for daily reserve is a good thing. well, i am really saying that it is all an improvement. there is nothing in there that goes backwards. it is definitely better than what we have now, but i was really hoping for something extraordinary. I’ll have to look into UAL system but as far as days off it is better than UAL(12,13), American(12,13), spirit (12,13) Alaska 12, Hawaiian(12), dal is equal at (13,14) and SW blows everyone away at (14,15) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
here's a question that i'm sure someone can answer now.
yesterday someone (and he claimed to know what he was talking about, how he knows the guys in the mec, etc. so i believed him) told me that if we vote for this contract, the pay rates will be retroactive to when the aip was signed, which i see was may 11th. does anyone think this is true? i don't see anything about that anywhere in the highlights, or mentioned anywhere. they talk about "DOS", date of signing. does that mean when the aip was signed, or when a contract passes a vote of the pilots? |
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
(Post 2621019)
I’ll have to look into UAL system but as far as days off it is better than UAL(12,13), American(12,13), spirit (12,13) Alaska 12, Hawaiian(12), dal is equal at (13,14) and SW blows everyone away at (14,15)
again, it is all an improvement for reserves. i didn't say it was bad. i just said i was hoping for something extraordinary, and this isn't it. |
For reserves I would have like to have seen a "no pairing finishing after 1700 on your last day" provision, give it to a 2-day pilot.
I don't know if I like the "physical standards" section. The other day somebody yelled out "you're a fat pilot". I assume it was with a ph?:eek: Looking forward to the road shows. Will our dues pay for a printed copy or am I going to Kinkos? |
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
(Post 2621019)
I’ll have to look into UAL system but as far as days off it is better than UAL(12,13), American(12,13), spirit (12,13) Alaska 12, Hawaiian(12), dal is equal at (13,14) and SW blows everyone away at (14,15)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
The implementation schedule is unacceptable without some sort of monetary incentive.
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I agree, the implementation schedule is the worst part of the whole thing. I think, so far.
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It seems like (without considering the effect of new work rules), E190 guys that stay around 70 hours a month and are stingy with their PTO will take a pay cut in the first year. Going from annually selling 108+ PTO hours at premium pay to 72 hours at straight pay... Seems like the 6.8% raise in the first year won't make up for that lost pay. Maybe my math is wrong... and my math has gotten pretty rusty since school...
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Originally Posted by dontsurf
(Post 2621024)
here's a question that i'm sure someone can answer now.
yesterday someone (and he claimed to know what he was talking about, how he knows the guys in the mec, etc. so i believed him) told me that if we vote for this contract, the pay rates will be retroactive to when the aip was signed, which i see was may 11th. does anyone think this is true? i don't see anything about that anywhere in the highlights, or mentioned anywhere. they talk about "DOS", date of signing. does that mean when the aip was signed, or when a contract passes a vote of the pilots? |
Really disappointed in health care cost and benefits. They seem to have gotten worse in some ways and marginally better in others.
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Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
(Post 2621096)
Really disappointed in health care cost and benefits. They seem to have gotten worse in some ways and marginally better in others.
This and the implementation schedule. I found marginal differences in healthcare which is a complete freaking joke. |
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Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
(Post 2621130)
What is better besides pay rates and average daily credit, reserves, oh ya I forgot anything that might be good is also delayed until 12/19. All this for measly pay advance.
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Originally Posted by jtrain609
(Post 2621133)
I'm here for the culture.
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Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
(Post 2621134)
I’m done talking to your trolling... instead of discussion of why you are voting yes you just troll....
Pilot logic is astounding. |
Originally Posted by jtrain609
(Post 2621140)
So this is what blows my mind here; guys eat up what Q has to say when he's OBVIOUSLY a troll. I'm OBVIOUSLY trolling and you can't see the humor in POSTING A MEME?
Pilot logic is astounding. |
Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
(Post 2621142)
I ignored q a looooong time ago.
But still. It's a meme. If you take ANYTHING said in a meme seriously you should be banned from the internet for six months and have your cell phone holster clip taken away. |
Is it better than what we have... perhaps. Is it still a steaming pile of sh!t? Yes! Vote NO early and vote NO often! A 7-5 union vote is not very convincing... at least some of our elected reps have the balls to say NO
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Originally Posted by 11Bravo
(Post 2621151)
Is it better than what we have... perhaps. Is it still a steaming pile of sh!t? Yes! Vote NO early and vote NO often! A 7-5 union vote is not very convincing... at least some of our elected reps have the balls to say NO
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I like the part where if there is a commuting pilot trying to get to work, and there is room in mint, they will upgrade a passenger just to keep the pilot from getting it.
Says everything about what this company thinks of us. Um, how much would commuting standby in mint cost the company again? Even the regionals get into first class if there is room. |
Originally Posted by hilltopflyer
(Post 2621154)
Amen. It’s a touch better than what we have now baaaaarrrrreeeeellllllyyyyyy.
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Best part of this passes all the non members have to back pay their union dues or quit. Sucks to write that check.
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