Are the 190 guys going to be able to write praise the sun on every A220 anymore? Won’t be able to escape the red eyes anymore :(

I wonder how junior the 190 will go in the next couple years. A shrinking fleet cannot be good for QOL, which is the only reason besides the lack of red-eyes, that people stay on the 190. Plus that APU or Autopilot MEL that maintenance would defer for maybe a day, I bet will be extended as long as possible to save money.

I think you have to say his name three times

Wow such credibility he has generated. Posting for years on a public forum makes him an expert. Brilliant.
No faith in the guy that worked there or anything and watched it go on.
Wait wait. Nope never happened either.

Don't forget to subtract approximately 2.1%... you can't tax deduct ALPA dues.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Aren't you the angry Yes defeatist/apologist that has to block people who you can't control with your lack of understanding of the TA, your willful ignorance of the process, and your overall lack of research on contracts?

Last time I checked, all the doomsday scenarious are floated by you if you don't accept this horrible TA.

We need to start winning. You constantly advocate losing. We can get a much better TA with minimal effort.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

How much are our ALPA dues?

Its growth of seat miles, but not additional pilot jobs. Just upgauging of planes. Interesting that JB 321 rates are less than 320 rates at most majors. Now we know why they wanted to make a deal so quickly. If they news came out before the AIP it might not have passed the MEC.

In any case good luck.

1.9% base PLUS

• Ground Holding Time
• Premium Pay
• Junior Assignment Pay
• Electronic Learning pay
• Night override pay
• Profit sharing pay
• Holiday Pay
• PTO pay
• AND NOW... probably the "signing bonus"

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Probably the signing bonus?
Absolutely the signing bonus, it's compensation read your contact. ALPA takes their cut out of EVERY penny you earn.. welcome to ALPA, time to get over it.

We are ALPA. If we want to change things we can. These aren't the laws of physics we're changing, it's merely bylaws and policy.

In any case, the Total Cost of Ownership must include all factors. So our substandard TA pay rates don't adequately cover ALPA costs.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Not trying to bust your bubble, ALPA Will NEVER CHANGE. THEY WILL ALWAYS GET THEIRS. Your bylaws are set.

And Trump will never get elected, says all the establishment and leftist media. The sound barrier will never be broken either.


ALPA should only get the money it needs to operate, provided they give more than barely incremental results. Remember, ALPA is only ONE court case away from losing their forced payer membership model. Wouldn't you want a higher performing organization that sells itself?







This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Where is your proof that it didn't happen? Because you say it didn't! Ha I laugh
The planes weren't offered to a union they were purchased by AMR, first rights were to AA for bad pay, AA said nope we are better than that. AMR said well it sucks that you don't have scope we will have American Eagle do it.
I was gracefully informed by many AA pilots during my tenure that if Eagle didn't exist that all of their furloughed pilot buddies would still have jobs.
Yes it happened. Quit lying to yourself that this management wouldn't do the same to you.

He’s a delta guy. I doubt he gives a sht what JB mgmt does to us.

I will happily stand side by side with you to dismantle ALPA's model of forced pay to play. Let me know when it goes down. Till then we are stuck in the current establishment and it keeps getting bigger. Every carrier that brings them on means we are farther from stopping their model.

I'm a Delta guy?
I wish! I wouldn't be having this argument, would have a much better commute, a better QOL. And career advancement.
That's a standard comment from someone who has nothing to say.

You quoted sailingfun and said “Quit lying to yourself that this management wouldn't do the same to you.”

Sailingfun is a delta guy and doesn’t care what JB mgmt does to JB pilots.

Prior to this post how would I know he is a Delta guy?

I don't have a problem with ALPA winning over more airlines, provided they offer revolutionary improvements (not barely incremental, cost neutral progress like this TA). Also, we would have to have complete power to defund them if they fail to do our bidding. Right now they do things by a so called democratic process, but that isn't the best system. Pure democracies are merely mob rule, not intelligent design. I would rather vote with my funding. If they do a good job, they get my funding. We'll see how this TA goes before options for or against ALPA are explored. They are overdue for a house cleaning.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

I lived that time period with many friends at AMR. You posted it so show your proof. You have already changed your story from the AMR pilots refused to fly them to the AMR pilots would not fly them cheaply enough so management took them away. That is a MAJOR change in what you said.
The same exact rumor has been said about Delta and UAL. The Delta MEC in-fact commissioned a financial study to show the CRJ50 could be flown at the mainline. Sadly they could not make the numbers work or convince management.

This "flyboygt" seems quite "special".

I am thanks for noticing.

When you have something worthwhile to contribute let me know, till then go back to trusting your internet buddy from Delta.

I don't need to prove anything. I lived it as well as many of my friends. Because some Delta guy with friends at AA says it's not true I'm the one that's wrong. Ok. I'm out...
Since this has become a ****ing war I will try yet again to let you know that under the PEA there are ZERO protections from management to give BJ pilots these airplanes.
You obviously have been at BJ for too long and have the belief that you are owed something. You are not owed anything. You accepted the job at substandard rates and loved them for years because BJ was hiring and expanding while there was an economic recession and everyone else furloughing.

Ha, ok. I've been contributing substance to this forum for years. You're pretty new to the JB forum but seem to suddenly have a lot to say with you're vast JB experience.

I'll say it again, this airline would DETONATE if management tried to outsource the A220, and they know it.

So far you sound like a scared JB newb who wants his big 1st year pay raise. There are reasons to vote YES and reasons to vote NO. Management outsourcing our A220s or being just about ready to sign up Skywest to fly RJs for us are not one of them. Wrong time, wrong business model, wrong strategy.

Substance? That's debatable.

You contribute opinion.

Detonate... HA I laugh. stuck in your old ways. I bet you think Neeleman is still CEO and culture still exists.
Damn noob!

I can tell you from experience while on furlough that guys were picking up OT. If you think that wouldn't happen here while someone else does our new shiny A220 you are delusional.

BTW I've been on APC for a long time also. I never had much to say in BJ forum especially when I worked at a different company.

More gibberish and opinion from someone I don't find credible or reasonable. Thanks for your newly shared opinions and hope you get your big 1st year pay raise you so desperately want.

So quick to talk yet doesn't listen. Typical. I don't care how credible you find my statements. You back someone's opinion that doesn't even work here.

I've never once said I'm in this for the "big" pay raise. I'm arguing scope and the importance of it.

You're arguing gravity, and the importance of it. Everyone knows how important scope is.

The whole reason for my argument is because there are too many that don't believe it. It has already been stated that "BJ would detonate" if there flying gets farmed out. That says to me that you believe their business model would fail if they brought in a regional. How many times has BJ changed their business model? I thought that we would "Never" have first class? Cape Air and Silver already partner with us. What's to stop them from doing more?

I don't think that some understand the gravity of scope and brush it off like "eh the company won't survive with someone else doing the flying"

Very few people in the flying public know who is flying the airplanes. All they see is what name is painted on the side. There company will survive. Their model will change.
Back to my original argument of AA. They contracted 5 independent companies to do their regional flying then bought them all called them American Eagle thus changing their business model.
We currently contact 2, what's to stop BJ mgmt from doing the same?

Before the A220-300 fleet review announcement many here were saying we have to take THIS TA and we have to take it NOW! Skywest was just about to be contracted to fly RJs as we parked our E190 fleet, if you listened to some on this site.

I said, that's ridiculous. I said we don't have the slots or gates to add RJs, and if those slots and gates were to come from our parked E190s it would be a significant down-gauging of our route network, which is 200% counter to all industry trends. I sarcastically called it "small-gauging". In our highly congested, gate and slot restricted premium geography it made/makes absolutely NO business sense, "none-what-so-ever". You haven't been here long enough to understand that reference.

So what happened just days later? An announcement from JB 100% validating everything I have been saying. The airline wants BADLY (If you don't believe me, listen to the fleet review conference call from yesterday) to *UP*-gauge our E190 fleet to this "game-changing" new aircraft. And they didn't order the -100, they ordered the -300.... They have shown their hand and their business plan. The reason they gave us RJ scope in the TA (which I would NEVER give up) is because they have absolutely ZERO intention of using RJs. ZERO. If they did they wouldn't have agreed to it, and because it makes ZERO business sense for OUR geography and model. No pilots, no gates, no slots, high CASM, counter to recent JB and industry trends. ONE. HUNDRED. PERCENT. VALIDATED.

With that said, I would NEVER give up RJ scope because we don't know what the business case is for RJs 10 years from now.

So now that that talking point was proven to be moronic, now it's "if we don't vote THIS TA NOW, JB is going to farm out the A220-300 to a regional".

Ok, let's have this discussion. *I* am the one who said JB would DETONATE if they farmed out the A220-300 to a subcontractor. I didn't say, as you suggested above, that JB would DETONATE if JB subcontracted our flying to an RJ, although I don't think it would go well for the company. I said the airline would detonate if they subcontracted the A220.

The ONE intelligent thing you've said was that JB agreed to this TA just before summer because they were concerned about the integrity of the airline going into the summer, I presume because of the labor dispute and the affect it was having on the operation. Very wise of you. It took years, but the pilots en-mase were fed up with the delayed contract and the group was absolutely withdrawing their good-will.

It shouldn't have taken so long to get to that point, but we had a union that called "labor dispute" too late in the game because they were trying to give the company a "chance" to do something they were NEVER going to do, take the "high road". The other problem was we had WAY to many Southerner (the APC handle, not the region) types who thought that if they were just quiet and patient, and promoted enough docility in the pilot group, management would just give us a great contract at some pre-determined time in the future. That is some stupidity on a galactic scale.

When the union finally called "labor dispute" and the group finally realized how gullible it had been and began to withdraw it's good-will, hello TA.

Well, if we vote this TA down (I highly doubt it at this point), we are back in a labor dispute. Yes, summer is almost over by that point, but then there's Thanksgiving, then holiday season, then spring break, then summer 2019.....

If we vote this down collectively as a group, and if during TA2 negotiations they announce an outsource of the A220-300, the resulting "labor dispute" would be tectonic. This operation is already holding on by a thread, and if the company announced that 25% of our existing pilot group was going to be outsourced? BJ DETONATION.

Take that to the bank dude. And management knows it.

Substance...hahaha. Fecal matter is definitely a substance, so I guess he is correct on that.

Roughly translated bluedriver was right all along, but we all knew that.

:)-

It's like we've done this before!

😀

See my long post, your dumb-rump is is correctly used as prime example.

ALPA should only get the money it needs to operate, provided they give more than barely incremental results. Remember, ALPA is only ONE court case away from losing their forced payer membership model. Wouldn't you want a higher performing organization that sells itself?







This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

Bwah hah hah! And just like that Q is back in your feed. Lol.

12 year Delta C-series 300 captain in $269.15 per hour
FO is $184 in 2019 (6 months from now)

You’re comparing 2018 C series 100 rates.

In 2019, you’re about 6 percent below Delta rates.

There will not be any A220s on our property in 2019. When the first group are delivered in 2020 we will be 4% behind Delta at the 12 year Capt. rate.

When the first group are delivered in 2020, DAL will have a new contract, which will likely keep the 3-4% a year cola trend they have had over this contract. Comparing our April 2020 rates with DALs Jan 2019 rates and assuming DAL will get zero raise to their rates in their new contract is a bit disingenuous at best. Assuming they get 3%, we will be 7% behind, significantly more so when you consider PS.

I stand corrected. APC should update their numbers then! LoL