Anywho.... How does it feel flying under our new CBA? Totally different right? Like a new company! How is that dropping down to ZERO working out? I have really been enjoying our in-flight meals. Looking forward to putting a very small dent in my past ALPA dues with my bonus check.

I feel like I work for a real airline now. Totally different from how it was a year ago. When I do my post flight walk around I do it on a full stomach of cheese and crackers. Way to go B6ALPA.

On a side note, can we please not have BOS 190 guys negotiate our next CBA? It turns out they have their sights set a little low. Must be the HUD radiation.

220 Bases
 

Anybody got any thoughts on where the first 220's will go?

Maybe MCO?...currently the smallest 190 base so easiest to swap the planes out, the training center is right there, etc.

Last base to get them maybe Boston? The 190 does pretty well there (as I understand) with the NYC shuttles, other short routes, etc.

I really have no idea :)

My guess :
MCO gets the first 5
BOS gets the next batch while they displace the 190 flying out of JFK to BOS and FLL
The rest of the deliveries get spread out between the 3 new A220 bases.

My guess for base size from largest to smallest

BOS
MCO
FLL

SkyWest couldn’t fly e190s for anyone under their Delta agreement. If JB had any inclination to use regionals to outsource they would have done it a year ago. Or two. Or three. Or four. Or 15.

Sure they could, just create a holding company with a different air carrier certificate and staff it from Skywest or XJT.

Hell use the XJT certificate and park the rest of XJT.

The possibilities are endless for a simple solution to that problem.

Jet blue will never fly anything but 320
Will never code share
Will never have first class
Will Never go West
Will grow organically

If jb wanted to... they could have. Now they can’t. Because of us. So it won’t be an email stating that we now have jetsuite moxi surejet or any other ever unless we decide to give that up.

As stated above there are easy work arounds for that, already been done. Guess that sort of thing never caught your attention?

You’re right, if JB didn’t do it already, they probably would never do it!
Seriously?

The next announcement would be Skywest losing it's entire Delta contract for 20 RJs... Skywest CANNOT fly the E190, violates their contract with Delta. Same with any other Delta feeder. And can't be any other wholly owned company. And they would need an E170 on their certificate to make it even remotely cost effective. And JB would DETONATE.

And a temporary transition contract is the best you can do?

So yeah, no.

That last part of your statement is REALLY wrong. Yeah, we definitely COULD get that email.

Whatever helps you sleep better at night. We weren’t going to have a regional. Period dot.

Delta's scope would prevent such a simple workaround. They aren't morons.

And, they are going to create an all-new certificate for a temporary contract? Genius!

Were they morons when Republic was operating E190's and had Delta Connection flying simultaneously?

Are you sure their scope hasn't changed since then?

I hate to call anyone childish, but come on. 74% of us spoke. Put your big girl panties on let’s move forward as a group.

Not sure who you're talking to, but I've already said publicly that I voted Yes.

Not really what we are talking about.

But that wasn’t the case. It’s why Republic Chatauqua and shuttle were all different carriers. It was to by pass the delta scope.

He's saying that they could start a brand new additional certificate to fly JB E190s, temporarily, while we transition to the A220. It's genius! And JB would have no trouble operationally from pilots if the company chose the "nuclear option".

Yeah, no.

It may have, and there could be another work around it. I mean I know it's Delta, so they're probably 100% on the money. No way around that!

There are a lot of regionals out there, as well as operating certificates. I get it, you're of the mindset that it's very unlikely to happen. That's great thinking when it comes to scope, really solid.

I'm shocked at how many snowflakes work here who can't get over the fact that they lost. Thankfully there are enough people with a head on their shoulders here.

Wasn’t directed at you. Apologies if you thought it was.

This whole thing got brought up by someone saying we were close to SkyWest doing our flying and we saved ourselves with this CBA. I brought up an opposing viewpoint. And now I’m a snowflake? Ok. Has nothing to do with “losing.” I’m glad we have a CBA. Some of it is good. Most of it is ok. Some lacks. Some of us thought the risk was worth the reward for holding out. 74% didn’t. That’s fine. But fear of SkyWest flying our 190s was not valid, and that’s what I called out. The union didn’t mention skywest flying our planes as a concern until roadshow time. Scopes been TAd for a while and they didn’t jump to an agreement hastily after they TAd scope. It wasn’t a concern they mentioned in March. But after the AIP/TA, it helped sell the TA. That’s it. Wasn’t gonna happen. Especially since scope was TAd, they wouldn’t have blown up the whole TA if it was voted down, made a CPA with SKW, and started from scratch with no scope. That would have turned a somewhat contentious labor dispute to an all out war. But yeah, I guess I’m a snowflake for not agreeing with the fearful guys who saved the day.

Talking about the importance of scope is like making a persuasive argument about the importance of flying above stall speed; anyone who has done this for any period of time knows how fundamental scope is to any contract, and how without it your flying can be outsourced overnight.

But hey, this is probably your first airline, so I get it, you don't know what you don't know.

Just be glad the guys who negotiated this contract know better than you do and go grab yourself a beer.

2nd airline, and 2nd negotiation cycle, but thanks for the career advice. And I know the importance of scope, thanks. I also know jetblue wasn’t going to outsource flying. Scope was TAd. And if this was voted down, JB wouldn’t have blown all the progress out of the water and declared war by outsourcing flying. They would have addressed the shortfalls and fixed it. Easy to look back and say they would have and feel like you took credit for saving the pilot group. No one will truly know, but outsourcing regionals doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint for jetblue. Which is why they agreed to scope during negotiations and didn’t just outsource flying 6 months ago when they could have.

The point was simply to point out what we would NEVER DO... right up until they decided to do it. I don't think this was a threat in the near term. But it's only a CEO or BOD change away.

Yes, we could still get that email. Infact, when we get that email, there's nothing to stop it. An M&A event is a certainty at some point.

Trying to stay out of this battle royal, but I agree with you whole heartedly that an M&A event is coming.

I hear ya...

I did get pulled from a trip the other day to my surprise. CS stated we'd go over 14hrs so they were recrewing it.

I'll take my win, thanks gigitty.

We all lost. Don't kid yourself.

Never said we were close..... Throwing out a scenario off the top of my head. As JB struggles with the transition to a new fleet, we utilize a regional to "help." Of course they don't fly all 60 E190s, who's got the staffing for that?! Plus it would upset the pilots right? But 10, or 20 planes...you never know.

You're talking as if JB never used regional before. Never found themselves in a pickle and dialed 1-800-RentAJet. You're right man....we had scope locked down years ago and we didn't even know it.

Scope was in-fact TAd early in the process. Because JB didn't want a regional... And our hubs, gates and business model don't support one.

Bluedriver, the point is that THIS Jetblue didn’t want that. The guys running it in 4 years may very well want it.

As far as business model supporting it, sure it could.

America West had regional feed.
ATA had regional feed.
Frontier had regional feed.
Midwest Express had regional feed.
Alaska has regional feed.

We are not too small to have RJs and turbo props take our flying.

Back to lurking and looking forward to moving on from this tired discussion....

He understands that. No offense bluedriver. He totally understands it but for his argument he must ignore that part. So in a way you are both right

Exactly.

Look at United. They bailed out of JFK a few years back. New team running the show now saying it was the wrong decision, they're looking at getting back in.

For all we know the current team is gone in a year and the new leadership has a much different take on regional feed.

Never said we were to small, there are other factors.

Never said I didn't want scope either. I said RJs weren't a near term threat.

JB agreed to no RJs early in the process, because they don't want them and don't make business sense for us. They weren't holding out RJs until the end and then caved to get a deal, they gave us RJ scope nearly at the beginning.

Near term threat, I don’t like that style of thinking. This is what everyone is saying is it a near term threat no. But with the way the company is going if RH does not have some kind of plan he won’t be here much longer. God only knows what Giggity will come up with. There was a time we did our own catering(never had a problem) than we outsourced it than we outsourced again to an even cheaper company and we saw what happened.
The idea of a contract is to think about what could happen.

But who will it be?
The Alk guys seem to think they are in the same spot but in their APC forum are talking about United buying us.

Could this be a reason why we can’t make up our mind about Europe or maybe our ELT is just dumb.

I'm saying RJs are not and were not a short term threat. What did he say that I'm ignoring?

It's more than just leadership. We specialize in highly congested airspace with heavy slot or gate restrictions. As it is, we are ALWAYS 12 months behind in our gate space needs. Which mainline flights are we going to pull down to make gate or slot space for an RJ?

Or the company outsourcing our E190s during contract negotiations? You think our already fragile operations would survive the "nuclear option" from the company?

I have no idea what they will or would do. But to say they haven’t done it before knowing jetblue as well as you do seems crazy to me. Anyway I don’t really think we traded a bunch of stuff for scope and I agree that RH most likely wouldn’t use RJs but the next girl might and I’m not about to risk that. All I know is if the big guys could go back and get the scope have no doubt they would in a second. It is one less thing to worry about. We have it it’s ours.

General question - In so far as what you see now, can you hazard a guess where upgrade times are going, based on the airplane orders, and assumed retirements - e.g. E190 leaves for each A220 arriving.
The agreement will impact staffing levels, and I'm not familiar enough to have any idea of its effects.
I know it's a moving ball, just trying to get a ballpark
Thanks

Right now it is at 4 years for 190 but once the 220 comes. I see that number going up.