Jumpseating
 

I am trying to figure out if commuting while working for jetBlue will even be worth the effort. How easy/hard is it for jetBlue pilots to jumpseat on other airlines? Which airlines are most receptive? And finally what rules do jetBlue pilots fall under since we are CASS but not ALPA/APA?etc?

union afiliation gives no priority when jumpseating. obviously, pilots from the airline you jump on have priority, but if you are cass you can ride the cockpit,so your options are good. remember that if you jump on any airline and a pilot for that airline has bump you off the jump seat, just go ask him to write a pass and let you use the jump seat. i don't know of any case where anyone said no.

remember that some regionasl also have priority over you when going on mainline, again ask the pilot to let you jump and him/her write a pass.

lastly, when pilots write passes, they get charge from their company. offer them to pay the fee they get charge. it could be as much as $20 for regional guys on mainline passes , and those guys don't get pay very good, so them doing you a favor should not have to cost them .

check you squedules from the city you are commuting to/ from and check with the gate agents at your originating airport, they can give you a good idea of how full the flights are and how many jumoers they normally have.


between commuting and living in NY I would choose commuting every single time!!!

Jumpseating to/from JFK (or LGA) has been pretty good on most airlines. Obviously with more of the Majors airlines allowing unlimited jumpseats recently (American, Delta, United) to name a few it has gotten better. Plus most of the regional airlines have always had unlimted jumpseat to match what we do here at JB. AirTran has always done the 1st one free and the 2/3/4th one pay $25-30. But then it depends on which gate agent you get. Often I have not had to pay the extra $$$. It just depends.

However, a number of our(JB) pilots have been denied the jumpseat on NWA. There NWA jumpseat coordinator doesn't want to push his pilots, so there are a number of them who like to deny the JS to JetBlue pilots. So if NWA is the airline you plan to JS on, commute early or use a different route/airline if you can!

CASS (or now CASS II) is run by the TSA operated by a subcontractor (ARINC I think) and airlines choose to participate in it or not. JB pays for the cost of CASS at JB, but I guess at other airlines it is paid for by the company or the Union/pilots (depending). Thus it is an airline to airline agreement. The union/non-union doesn't affect it (or shouldn't).

Good Luck!

Just my opinion.....

FNG

What's with NWA, FNG? Why the cold shoulder, and what is their j/s coordinator's problem? We all know JetBlue welcomes all off-liners, and we appreciate it!

While the professional courtesy of offering the jumpseat to another pilot is at the Capt's discretion. It is a huge bummer when you see a guy (or gal) using the jumpseat to further a political agenda [SCABS aside] or personal grudge. The jumpseat is a benefit that we all have the opportunity to screw up, I'm sure that each company would jump at the chance to save monthly CASS fees if given the proper reason (like an pilot/union food fight). Just my two cents.

HSLD,

I respectfully disagree. The fact United and the rest of the BK carriers have, and will continue to, invest in CASS shows how critical the system is from their standpoint as well. I know that when United was pushing through CASS to the beancounters, they merely had to point to the OOP calls prior to 9-11 and compare the number to OOP after 9-11. It was a remarkable difference. No matter what, neither the companies nor the pilots want CASS to go away.


JayDub

There is a very good chance that offline jumpseat riding on union airlines will be coming to an end, unless you have a union card on top of your JB ID. This has been brewing for a while now, but it will be happening probably in 2007. Expect Delta to be the first one to implement this followed by NWA.

You are completely full of crap. As a matter of fact, I'll bet you are Kill Bill.

nope. and virtually ALL eligible pilots are welcome on my jumpseat. i say "virtually" because there are 2 or 3 CO pilots who will never set foot on my airplane.

and was that sincere? you think i have multiple handles here?

About 10 months ago, a JB CPT sat in the jumpseat on the plane I was flying (my leg LGA- DTW). My CPT and I was discussing hte situation with NWA and what was going to happen or the posssibilities of there of. Out of the blue (no pun ) this JB CPT said " You guys need to cut your labor costs and learn to live with less income". My CPT and I looked at each other and dropped our jaws!

There will be no JB pilot sitting in the jumpseat if I'm flyijng. They can sit in the back, but no way in H*LL will one sit in the jumpseat again. Don't care if they're CASS or not!

I can understand why you're ****ed, but by keeping them out of the jumpseat you lose the opportunity to give them an education. From the sounds of it that poor SOB was drowning in a blue river and needed rescuing.

I can appreciate your disdain for the Boneheads lack of class. But do you think 1200 other Pilots deserve to held accountable for him. We probably don't like him too much either. Your stance is real Redneck like.

Flybywire is a liar.

Less and less folks will be getting jumpseats on union carriers. It's been done before, and there is a movement to do it again. crawdawg52 is not the only one of a growing group that is starting to wake up, and the letters to the various MEC's are flying. Just give it time but it is inevitable now.

Are we back to giving JB pilots shi*. Oh come on, we're above that, aren't we.;) Regarding JB pilots jumpseating. I've had 3 in the last month, one guy, two who weren't. Oh those two, one might not be and the other... well she could ride in my cockpit any time. :D

Now that you have everyone's attention, would you be so kind as to link to, post, reference, or otherwise substantiate your claim? I consider myself pretty well dialed into jumpseat issues, as in really dialed in, and I haven't heard anything remotely related to your claims.

Of all the Jumpseat coordinators that I talk to, not one is in line with your "movement". Bring on the proof please.

All the best -

The proof is in the puddin man, more and more Captains are saying NO. It is not the Jumpseat coordinators that say yes or no it is the captains final decision. This is the grass roots effort. When the Jumpseat coordinators starts to see this shift it will be the form of an official letter. It is not that far along yet NO, I give you that, but it will be in good time. NWA has the largest group of Captains doing this now with Delta a close second. UAL is a bit behind now, but eventually they will move with it. Just wait till the end of the year, this effort was just started in November 2005.

I jump on DAL all the time and they are very good hosts to jetBlue and other carriers. Here at jetBlue we provide many DAL and other pilots from the upstate NY region rides to NYC. Your posts are childish and an embarrasssment to the pilot profession. Good luck to you sir.

It's true. It is just secret, for now. It is a special initiative formed by a small group of disgruntled airline pilots, in an effort to get back to being gruntled. I, through secret chanels, have broken into this small group. The newsletter is tastefully done, and the meetings are bi-weekly. There is one tonight, and I am taking s'mores. During the last meeting, there were other proposed "Grass-roots" proposals. One being that the code word should be "grass-roots". Another proposal was to try and get schoolyard bullys to threaten the children of JetBlue pilots at school. Tonights key note speaker will give a very professional briefing entitled "Glass Home Ownership: It IS OK to throw stones" with a follow up speech entitled: "Internet argueing: It CAN Bring Pride and a Feeling of Self Worth (when nothing else does)"

Also at tonight's meeting, after the "old business" the "New Business" will be trying to blame this weekends Snowstorm on a rake I found in my garage.

[QUOTE=greedyairlineexec]union afiliation gives no priority when jumpseating. obviously, pilots from the airline you jump on have priority, but if you are cass you can ride the cockpit,so your options are good. remember that if you jump on any airline and a pilot for that airline has bump you off the jump seat, just go ask him to write a pass and let you use the jump seat. i don't know of any case where anyone said no. QUOTE]

That is not exactly true...................The CAPT Always has the final word on who jumpseats in his/her cockpit! Union affiliation often does matter. I remember trying to jumpseat home from Honolulu on United several years ago. There were 4 of us trying to get on (none of us were United). There were only 2 Jumpseats seats.
The CAPT Looked at us and said ALPA guys have first priority and if you are all ALPA it goes by Date of Hire.

Before I was hired at Purple/orange, I remember some FDX guys in Blue shirts (3 of them) were trying to jump from Miami to NYC. At that time FDX was not union, but 1 of the FDX guys was ALPA Assoc member from Tigers. The CAPT let all 3 of them on...........but the 2 non-union guys sat in the cockpit and the ALPA assoc member sat back in first class.

Union membership does have it's priviledges....................after all it was ALPA who got interline jumpseating in the first place!

Nope. The snow storm was Bush's fault.

Ahhhhhh OK, I see now.

Thank you for making abundantly clear how much stock I can put into what you post from now on.

I believe this to be a rumor, but sometimes the spiteful pettyness of union recruiters astonishes me. As someone here said, if anything, taking a nonunion jumpseater gives you an opportunity to exchange ideas. Also, if you are nonunion [or even just "pro-business" like me ;) ], if you're getting a free meal in someone else's kitchen, don't ***** about the cooking.

I'm union and JB pilots will always be welcome on my flights unless they are proven d##kheads, and that will take some to top some of my ALPA brothers that I have let ride.

Concur Brother...............:;)

Sounds like someone who started talking crap on "The Hanger", and failed to bring anyone else on the bandwagon. Since I posted this question in Aug, I haven't had one bad experience on any offline carrier. In fact the number of other airline pilots and FAs that JB carries far out numbers the total number of pilots at JB. Just look at the number of AA, DL, CO, NWA pilots that live in BUF, SYR, ROC, BTV, BOS and commute on JetBlue before you make stupid comments like that. If DAL or NWA ever tried something like what you are wishing, the FA unions would FLIP! NWA and DAL pilots and FAs have more to lose then JB pilots do. Let's hope stupid rumors stay on the forum, and not out on the line, for everyones sake.

They commuted just fine prior to blue, and they will do just fine after neelman pulls the plug.

KB jumpseat list
 

KB:

It would be interesting to compare lists of these few individuals.:mad: I would bet that the ones on mine are probably on yours.

I have no idea where you are getting your "facts", but they are just wrong. In fact, quite a few of my friends at DAL would be very offended by your attempted character assassination of their pilot group.

Please cite specific examples of DAL turning down JB pilots.

Respectfully,

JayDub

Care to share who these CO clowns are. I'll bet money that I'd refuse the same guys :D

Sorry FBW. I will NEVER turn down a Pilot who complies with our J/S policy EVER. The fact that you can have them sit up front and possibly enlighten the unenlightened is a tool worth using.

Other than that, 99.9% of the guys we carry are outstanding individuals, (yes that absolutely includes Jet Blue).

The ALPA position
 

Quote from a message today:

Quote:
During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.[See the attached file]

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.

"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."

ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.

"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."
Unquote.

Any questions FBW??




.

Okay, let them deny jetblue pilots and other non union carriers pilots jumpseats.

However, once that door is opened, then next it will be AMR boys denying UAL or LCC, since one, they are different unions and two, compared to AMR, they both have "lowered" the bar. Then the AAI pilots gets mad at DAL etc, etc.

It is a slippery slope, once you start down, well, it is hard to stop.

However, this topic, denying jetblue jumpseats, have surfaced a couple of times, as far as I know, other than a few ****ed off NWA pilots, it hasn't come to much. Looking at route maps etc, I really cannot see where the big competetion between jbu and NWA ocurs, but clearly the NWA pilots see it!

What 'effort', FlyByWire? Using the jumpseat as a political tool? Discriminating against fellow pilots who must commute because you don't like their airline?

I've been an ALPA Jumpseat Chairman and would NEVER, EVER endorse a so-called 'grass-roots effort' to deny jumpseats to pilots of an airline I had signed a reciprocal agreement with. It is UNprofessional and extremely risky, and may well backfire eventually.

Why are JetBlue pilots being singled out and denied j/s? JetBlue has a STELLAR reputation, in the legacy of TWA, Eastern, RenoAir, Piedmont, USAir, for getting nonrevs and jumpseaters onboard. They NEVER leave anyone behind until all seats are full. Why the hassle?

[QUOTE=RedeyeAV8r]The thing most non-union pilots forget is that jumpseat privileges are NEGOTIATED. Delta (for example) did not even have access to jumpseats on their own airline until it was negotiated into their contract. And to get it, they had to give something up.

For a jetBlue (or any other non-union) pilot to assume or claim a "right" to a cockpit jumpseat is ludicrous at best. Especially when the degradation of wages and benefits in the entire profession is essentially driven down by the presence of people who work in a non-union shop voluntarily.

[QUOTE=Velocipede]Do you work for Alaska Airlines?

[QUOTE=Velocipede]I'm still a Delta pilot (furloughee) working at JB. I think your wrong. I think the majority of jetBlue or any other LCC pilots who came from legacy carriers know it is negotiated. I also don't think the majority "claim a right to a jumpseat" I think they like any other airline pilot consider it a courtesy and present and ask the captain for permission to ride whether its in the cabin or Cockpit (CASS).
At any large organization there is always the "tool" who gets it wrong but they are so few and far between that I don't think that is what your referring to in your post. I jumpseat frequently and have never had a problem on AA,UAL,SWA,DAL or the many commuters I travel on.
I think someone in this thread was just trying to stir something up. I really see very little problem out there.

Well said. An individual pilot should never be "punished" because of another pilots "agenda". I have been denied a jumpseat because jetBlue allows us to have facial hair and I wasn't even sitting in the cockpit. Conversely, I have never denied a jumpseat to any legacy carrier or otherwise.
Always welcome, always!

You must have taken you medication today Bill! You crack me up man. Keep it coming!

While I'm retired and out of this arena, I never let anyone whose name was in the scab book on the jumpseat.

Of course, I had no choice with someone from the company I worked for.