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Multiple people hearing the same rumor...open gates at Miami...JetBlue looking for more daily flights out of South Florida...big ramp of pilots in FLL...another co-base trifecta!! PBI - FLL - MIA

Good idea? Bad idea?

If only we had a significant growth in hull count this would matter. More hulls is the only metric that is important here. The rest is a shell game.

Decent traffic to NYC, and I’d assume with the amount of traffic we already carry from FLL/PBI it wouldn’t hurt those routes too much. The real win from MIA is the VFR traffic to S.America/Caribbean and I can’t see us having any chance at those routes without AA/LATAM dumping hard on us. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 2-3x JFK-MIA and 1-2 BOS. If we could shift some Cuba flying to MIA that might help too

Don’t worry, we can always pull them off the west coast

I’ve heard that BDL-DCA is done. That flight was always full. Not sure what’s up with that?

-Bubs

They officially announced that a few months ago. With the hourly service announcement between BOS-DCA & NYC.

100% Load Factor. No increase in LF, route failing to improve. CXLD.

:p:D

Makes sense, force the BDL people to drive to BOS. Also allows for more BOS-DCA which helps business travel

Just cause a flight is full doesn’t mean it makes money.

Yeah, I hear you. I think they’re on top of thing looking at dollars and sense. You guys are correct too. You only have “X” amount of hulls to move the clowns.

-Bubs

You might be right

Yeah...cause what this company needs is more NY-S Florida flights.
:mad:

Yea! More of the stuff that made us successful in the first place! Who needs that junk! Arrgggh

After September 11th the BELF at United was about 105%.

GP

That’s a tough cookie for the number crunchers to eat

How about we stick to flying the planes and quit *****ing. If there is a market why not? More South America routes? Anyways NY-South Florida routes are very profitable especially when a competitor comes in with a better product and lower fares.

Love it how so many here have such strong comments on routes like they know how to do anything but fly the plane. From the man ahead of the department himself he once told me that was always a desire to get some MIA flights. Mainly for the south Florida and Florida keys traffic not willing to drive more north to FLL. Not to say I believe him or not but that’s what I’ve heard from the rumor. I won’t comment if it’s profitable or not because like the rest on here I have no clue.

You do realize there are other areas in the country that make money, right? Or are we too myopic and completely risk averse that we have to hike up our skirts and run away in the face of new routes?

jetblue polls its pax and finds out where they want to go. the polls are conducted in NYand bos. Our current business model revolves around taking people from NY and bos to places and back. then there's a little bit of other stuff. like it or not that's what makes our billions.

Yep. Honestly I don’t care where we fly. Whether it be Europe or the DR. Just make money hand over and fist and share that with the people who are the frontline who make it possible to make that money.

Is that like our union polling our pilot group to determine what they are willing to accept less on?

Guess what. Leaders lead. It’s time for JB to grow up and stop being a NY/BOS boutique airline. There’s endless route pairings that JB could explore to expand their brand nationally. They’re inherently lazy and risk averse. Goes along with the inept leadership team driving this boat so pretty much par for the course around here.

I dig it.

#filler

Actually no. It isn’t.

But if you can do a better job I highly encourage you to get into route planning and do something better. I’m sure they’re looking for project pilots as we speak.

This. IDGAflyingF where we go. As long as it turns profit.
If we can make bank. Go.

Actually, yeah, it is. But that's okay.



Been there, done that. Time for someone else to take the reins.

That’s all fine, but Our flight schedules suck! I don’t want anymore redeyes or 2am departures.

Risk adverse is a little strong. If Jetblue was flying transcons using the classic A320’s since the business class market is too competitive....or had a bunch of E2 orders on the books, or decided London wasn’t worth it then I’d agree with you. Maybe slow to make decision is better.

Fair..............

London is classic risk aversion.

The LR is a neo with an additional act.

London is just “the next mint route”.

This company makes lots of risky moves, but they aren't the kind a growing airline should make.

1. $1.5 Billion stock buyback at the height of a bull market.

2. Hundreds of millions gambling on money losing startups in the new tech bubble.

3. Testing how little they can put into the maintenance budget until a mishap occurs.

4. Making a lawyer with no airline experience COO.

5. Going to war with their front line employees over nickels and dimes to pay for the above, when the business model relies heavily on customer service.

See? Not risk averse.

^^^Exactly this

They even said as much on one of the earnings calls. Look at the top O&D destinations from BOS that B6 doesn't serve, most of them are Europe with London being very high up the list. Our Europe expansion is about serving the BOS/JFK markets, not about serving Europe.

Except for the fact that they’re designing a new business class for these transatlantic flights....”Mint Plus” or maybe they’ll call it something different. Plus all the logistics of an Etops program and getting that approved by the FAA. Also the backlash from the Big 3 to ensure Jetblue isn’t successful in this endeavor. Other than that you’re right, zero risk, just another mint route.

RefreshMint :p is more of an A321 door config change than a TATL reason. ETOPS is a fixed cost, and competition is something we are used to.

I can’t think of a lower risk growth opportunity to be honest.

ETOPS is a known quantity. Most US airlines are/have been ETOPS, (including Virgin America :eek: ). Its not a risk.

That being said. We are a very risky airline. Heck, we fly red eyes into South America with broken airplanes. What we lack is belief in our ability to compete in new US markets.

Refreshmint....I like it! I think there’s a real chance that Jetblue falls flat on their face with this. Being successful in the Transatlantic market requires operational excellence, something Jetblue doesn’t have in spades. That’s why I think there’s a big risk.

It cant be a bigger failure than Cuba.

No they are just going where the money is. In FLL we command a fare premium over SWA amazingly JetBlue is popular down there. They know Miami would make money so why not go? If you want to grow somewhere with an iffy new route you need solid other routes that make money to help offset that new route. Just like Delta can afford to take a hit it Boston because it hurts us and ATL DTW and their other hubs can make up for it.

Yeah but is there anything wrong with a low risk growth route? They better do it otherwise you are just letting someone else take that money

I don’t think there are any other US carriers who could realistically start BOS/JFK-Europe except the Big 3 who already do it. It is low risk for us because we already have great market share and brand recognition in those 2 markets. I think Mint TATL will be a big success and we will expand beyond this first phase.

Same was said with BOS and short haul business markets. We are killing it financially, but we suck operationally. Frustrating for front line employees, but company is making profits. We’ll see how Europe does, and anything can happen, but I bet it is a financial success.

Who knew operational excellence was required for the Atlantic market. Exactly what level just so we all know??

The LR fleet will be fairly small, and won't be subject to delay programs/ground stops. I can't think of another US carrier with higher exposure to delays than us, if you could erase EDCTS from our network you'd see a noticeable jump in on-time. If that gets you within 10% on-time of your competition, you think your average customer really notices? Airline A has an 8/10 chance of getting you to London on time, Airline B has a 9/10 chance.