JetBlue vs ULCC?
 

If one is looking to move on from the regionals and had a choice between JetBlue vs Spirit/Frontier, what would be the best option? Whoever calls first? Eventually would like to settle in Florida. I know the other 2 are more junior down south in Florida, but I think longterm I would prefer jetblue. Reading the moral on all three pilot forums seem pretty low. How would movement be for a new hire today at JetBlue? Are expectations for a contract looming or company may drag it out?

Popcorn at the ready.

Moral today doesn’t matter. Where do you see yourself in 10 years that matters. Which one gives you the best QOL?
Movement my be a little quicker at spirit/ frontier but JB has more long term potential out of the three

The word is morale, and it always seems worse on anonymous message boards compared to what you see and hear flying the line.

While there are obviously a lot more factors than compensation, this recent contract comparison guide created by Spirit’s union paints a detailed picture of where each airline is at the moment.

Spirit Pilots’ Contract Comparison

I couldn't agree more. It's far worse on here then it is on the line. While I fly with the occasional doom and gloom pilot most of us are upbeat and enjoy our time at work.

Most of the guys who are miserable that I fly with seem to be the ones who have to credit 125hrs a month just to get by… I’d be miserable too spending all that time in a metal tube no matter what name was painted on the outside. It’s amazing how many people can’t afford living off 300k

How else are they supposed to pay for 2 alimony checks and their boat??

Apply to all three before you become over qualified. Take the first offer then the one that gets you sitting reserve at home. The rest doesn’t matter, regardless of company propaganda.

Crumble up a blue, yellow and green (with animal stickers on it) piece of paper. Put it in a hat, walk up to a stranger and have them draw out of the hat.

there is your answer.

Agreed. Product does not equal career expectations nor does it equate to a successful company and lucrative career. If that were the case, thousands of Southwest pilots with their cattle car 737s made the wrong choice for several decades, but they did NOT make the wrong choice. They prospered, prevailed, and out-earned many of their legacy airline counterparts. It’s a crapshoot. Seniority is king everywhere.

The seniority gods do not lie

As someone who worked at 2 out of these 3 (not at green) the answer is spirit.

Why Spirit over JB? Care to elaborate

why would you leave spirit for Jetblue? Doesn’t make sense.

makes sense if you worked at JetBlue in the last 10 years. Qol is much better at spirit. Pay seems to be better at blue. I know nothing of spirits management but I know our COO is way out of her league and because of her any executive with talent/passion for aviation has bailed

Well todays news made things a bit more interesting to say the least. Lots of variables to consider now.

Apply to any place you seriously want to work at and keep the apps updated and keep networking. Then take the one who calls first. You can always jump ship later if you want.

If you can live in base QOL will be great

If you can only 1 leg commute it and have several options a day to that base QOL is Good.

If you have to 2 leg it or have few options, you will hate your life.

Well this was before the merger news but, spirit has much greater schedule flexibility and thus QOL. You could drop every trip on your schedule and rebuild back whatever trips you want from open time even on the weekends. Would not happen at JetBlue currently.

JetBlue vs ULCC?
 

True it is very hard to move stuff on your schedule at JB. Often below minimum coverage.


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The shorter the trip the easier it is with how the stupid grid system works. I’m a day tripper, usually don’t have a lot of trouble getting rid of stuff.

Great, so only the remaining 85% of the pilot group have a problem...

So if every spirit pilot wants to drop December 25, how does that work?

Chances are it won’t happen. They can set a minimum number of reserves per day and usually Christmas will be right at that minimum or drop below it shortly after pilots are able to drop.

That being said there’s other options. You could swap trips until you can work out something you like. Example: I was scheduled to work Dec 24-27. The 26-27 were above reserve coverage so those days could be dropped so I swapped into a trip that finished Christmas morning at 8:30. 2nd best option if you have to work Christmas.

75% of the Days (pretty sure) have to be green at beginning of (IOT) Initial Open Time so the other 25% of the days can be “red”, usually holidays or beginning of month

Say for Christmas, they post required reserves as 28 (with every other day being say 20), and lets say there are 35 reserves for 12/25 when bids are finalized. Now, the first 7 to drop anything touching 12/25 can - after that - DENIED...

Roger.

It's that "75% of days have to be green at bid opening" that JB pilots don't have...

Unless you are trying to drop a 1 day trip with the way our grid is you can almost forget it.

The grid is the worst issue I personally have. We need a seriously better process in CBA 2.0. It was one of my 3 biggest issues on my ALPA survey. Vacation/PTO accrual and reassignment protections where my other two. Maybe if dependability went to the way side (not that they really enforce it) I wouldn't care about the grid so much.

I’m in the same situation right now. Frontier surprisingly invited me for an interview back in March and got offered into the hiring pool. No class date yet but my background stuff is pending. Then Jetblue sent me a phase 1 invite yesterday. Basically I’m unclear as to where I will be long term but I don’t look down on ULCC carriers like some. I’m a FL guy, that’s where my family is and that’s where I wanna end up. Pay seems slightly higher at jetblue but I’m anticipating new rates with the pending merger and even so without. FL bases are junior with good movement and upgrade times. Jetblue seems like it will be a while for FL and then really slow progression. Jetblue has a better name and reputation.

To quote BD, that's a bingo. Reserve grid is one of the largest give-aways in the CBA. It was workable with the pre-CBA grid, but now it is useless. I'd wager that in the long run it is more trouble to the company than if they had a less restrictive grid. More sick calls, last minute unplanned absences, upticks in FMLA and alternative measures to get time off.

JBLU vs. ULCC
 

CRJdriver2017, I’d say go to Frontier. If Florida bases there go junior, and that’s (FL) where you want to be based, then go with them. Not having to commute to work should far outweigh the slightly higher pay you’d get here at JB.

Frontier/Spirit is likely going to get you in FL quicker and faster QOL. Maybe a FLL blue can chime in but in Orlando to upgrade here at blue is over 9 years on the 190 which will soon go away. The bus left seat in Orlando may as well be impossible and once the 190 goes away you may as well forget it exists once all is said and done. Jetblue pretends Orlando doesn’t exist and there is nowhere in the country but NY. Basically they think it’s impossible to make money there even though Spirit/Frontier both ran us over like a dump truck expanding.

JetBlue vs ULCC?
 

Exactly. ULCCs make money in MCO. If MCO made the kind of money our other bases do then it would be bigger. Its a simple fact not trying to antagonize.


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I would add, or possibly counter, that JB seeks to build out bases with limited gates/slots etc... I believe they view Orlando as important to the long term plan, but presently feel no pressure to obtain resources because the resources there haven't been that limited. To say it another way, I think they feel like they can always grow MCO NEXT year... The new terminal is the exception however. But that sorta counters both our arguments.

On a more positive note then MCO is our most important base after NYC, BOS, FLL and LAX.


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Scott said multiple times on pocket sessions before he bailed that yields in MCO are garbage with our cost structure with so much ULCC competition. He didn’t seem very optimistic about MCO growing. Dave Clark seemed a little more positive on it on the last pocket session though. Regardless, there’s always schoolhouse / adjunct jobs available for guys who want to be in MCO and not commute.

maybe for adjuncts….but schoolhouse full time goes to new hires.

Why pay someone to teach 90 hours guarantee that can hold a captain pay rate with thousands of hours experience on the plane when you can hire off the street, pay 1st year FO pay, and they have never touched the airplane.

I think there's truth to all these points. As far as ULCC, there is plenty of that in FLL as well. The yields were good enough to justify becoming the main tenant of the new terminal, or maybe they think better digs will lead to better revenue. IDK.

I will start with saying the obvious, anything in this industry can change at any time. For perspective, I started Jetblue around the same time my friend started at Spirit. I am a very junior line holder, I fly to better destinations, I use my travel benefits. He’s a reserve captain, makes more money than me, works less, flies to worse places, buys tickets on other airlines.