JetBlue as commuter
 

Howdy,

I'm trying to decide right now between Spirit and JetBlue and would be commuting for both. Obviously there's a big chance that the two become one anyway, but for the sake of argument in case the merger doesn't happen and QOL during the first two years I still need to decide. I live in the Southeast and would be commuting either way, probably to JFK for B6 and ATL for NK. I'm about a 4.5 hr drive from ATL, which is somewhat reassuring in case there's significant IROPS I could always drive in or rent a car & drive home. But I've been based there as a regional pilot, and even commuting on the mainline carrier where we had nonrev benefits (albeit at the lowest priority) started to get more difficult. I've done the math & if I bought all my tickets and averaged 4 trips per month, it would cost me between $10k-20k per year -- basically lowering my hourly pay by $13-23 per hour depending on the route (to ATL or JFK) and the airline. I think this is something I could live with both for the added peace of mind and to not have to drive the additional 1700 miles per month to ATL (which carries its own set of risks).

I know moving to base is always the obvious choice but with my wife's work there is almost no chance of that happening within the next 10 years. Given that, here are the pros & cons as I see them:

NK -- ATL
Pros: shorter flight, more flights per day (6-7), first flight to base arrives before 7am & last flight home is usually after 10pm; could drive if absolutely had to; easier to move between terminals at airport; better schedule flexibility as lineholder
Cons: more expensive route (monopoly by mainline); NK long call gets used a lot from what I hear; commute route not served by Spirit

B6 - JFK
Pros: route served by JetBlue; good number of flights (2 on B6, 3 on a different regional); I've heard B6 might be better for LCR
Cons: longer flight, first flight into base wouldn't arrive until about 9:30am, last flight home leaves before 8pm; more time to move between Terminal 4 and Terminal 5 if needed

How are the routes or commutability at JetBlue between 10am and 7pm? Is there anything I'm missing? I think with the LCR not showing before 2pm, worst case I might need a hotel on the back of the assignment but would rarely need to come in a day early.

Lastly, most commuter clauses deal with needing 1 or 2 flights when jumpseating. How would these apply if I were buying my tickets, and reported late due to a flight delay (maintenance, weather, crew, etc) that was outside of my control and not an issue of me not getting the jumpseat?

Thanks in advance.

B6 wise 1 commute in company to commuter clause. Has to get in 1 hour before though. As things stand currently we have positive space commuting indefinitely from the last email we received. At spirit as far as I know, from a close friend there long call tends to trend a bit senior Atleast in the Florida bases. Lcr at blue is about 1-2 months depending on class seniority for the 320 in kennedy on the 190 it’s about 0-1 months in Boston.

First off, if you are commuting you should really consider going to a legacy where the pay/benefits/QOL will likely be better than JB/NK.

If I had to chose between those two I would chose B6 and bid JFK 320 SQ (SQ = Special Qualification crew class for doing the Europe stuff). If you can get LCR it is a 14hr callout, and even on SCR as a SQ pilot they will be putting you on mid-afternoon RAPs until you get to your last two days, then they shift you earlier.

JB has positive space commuting until further notice, so that helps as a commuter.

I might add that JFK 320 SQ is starting to see some early morning trips being built with the daytime LHR flight, so you might want to consider BOS 320 SQ if you can get it. As of now all BOS 320 SQ trips are late afternoon departures and mid-day arrivals back to base.

Go to Spirit, drive to work and then go to Delta in ATL and drive to work.

I don't disagree, but don't have an offer or an interview from a legacy yet, so while more ideal isn't really an option.

There's also only one flight to BOS daily from my home airport so that's not as attractive as the five flights to JFK no matter the pairings.

Thanks for all the info!

Makes sense if I was closer to 2 hrs away instead of 4.5, sometimes almost 5 or more due to heavy traffic or the occasional wreck along the route. I tried to clarify that I've more or less made my peace with the possibility of just buying tickets outright as a commuter, even if technically within driving distance. It doesn't solve all of the hassles of commuting, but removes some of the uncertainty and my wife and I decided that $10k a year is worth the added peace of mind and saving the almost 400 extra hours and 22,000 extra miles I would spend in the car.

I tried to think of it this way: if I were offered two jobs, one paying $150,000 per year but I had to find my own way to work, and one paying $140,000 per year but they would buy my tickets to and from my base… Which would I choose?

Yeah one daily to BOS wouldn’t work. JFK 320 SQ would be pretty good for a commuter. Day 1 LCR no trip before 1400, no trip/RAP before 1000 for a SCR.

Can you utilize positive space commuting as many times as needed each month? If you are SQ with 5 distinct trips to London from JFK could you commute fro JFK to your home between each one with positive space flights on JB? Not having to compete for a jump seat is a big deal.

No limits to the positive space commuting as far as I know

no limits. But keep in mind that company can stop offering PS commute at anytime. It's not contractual.

And unfortunately, at some point, the almost certainly will stop offering it.

To the original poster, I would give up on the idea of buying your tickets. Just not necessary. Half of JB is commuters, and somewhere between 0-.00000001% but their tickets regularly. If you did buy tickets you'd have to buy them early, and then you can't change your schedule.

I think you will find it is not necessary at all.

Thanks. If anything that works in favor of choosing JetBlue even if Atlanta is technically closer. Even commuting on Delta lately to Atlanta on some days would have me either taking the early morning flight for an afternoon report time because the others are all full, or driving in. And while having the option to drive seems nice, I really don't relish doing it 4 or 5 times per month.

If I were buying tickets, I would probably buy the Delta to JFK and if needed can change/cancel the flight and retain the flight credit in most cases. I'm just trying to come up with ways to make commuting less bad since I'm not moving to base.

Easy, take first class date that you can get....

Then when you get hired apply to delta!

I've only ever purchased my own ticket for commuting once. That was to make sure I would make it home for Christmas. You talk about buying hotels and tickets, are you not planning on using a crash pad as a commuter? That only adds up to about $5000/yr, which is much cheaper than you hotel and purchased ticket options. You might burn a few days extra a month getting to and from work, but honestly that's the life of being a commuter. If being at home is more important, you utilize the commuter clause on the front end. It doesn't count against you other than the loss of pay (I believe you can use pto to cover it if you have enough banked).

I've been able to avoid the crash pad while commuting for four years. The crash pad may be cheaper overall, but time at home and having my own space are 1000% more important at this stage (I'm definitely not floating the self-funded positive space idea as a way to save money). I figure there's a trade off on the flight/hotel option in that if I have a guaranteed seat then there's no reason to go in the night before. Obviously the positive space for commuters might make that moot for the time being but that could be pulled at any time. Just trying to figure out if JB is the kind of place where life will be better as a commuter even if the flight is an hour longer than to ATL. Thanks!

This man gets it! Thanks, I'll try but also need to pick a place that'll be a good fit if that doesn't happen.

There is NO way you end up buying your tickets. Not gonna happen. After the first ten flights where you see open seats on the jet, no way you'll keep buying tickets.

I’ve bought plenty of tickets for flights that were wide open a month out. Some filled up and some didn’t. Never regretted buying the tickets.

Also to the OP don’t forget about CLT at AA

Wow, you're the first I've come across that regularly buys tickets.

Not commuting but for travel, I live in base, but I have run into more than one pilot that buys tickets to work

Well, that's different. I virtually always buy tickets for family travel. I know of no one that regularly buys tickets for commuting. Maybe you do.

Sighhh…..and yet the subject of this thread is about commuting, and buying tickets for EVERY commute was the plan of the OP. That is discussion, we have all bought tickets before on leisure travel.

Sometimes, mainly Holiday time it’s nice to spend an hour of pay to get on while 75 employees of that company are left standing wondering why a JB guy just got on their company’s flight and they were left standing in JFK4 for another two or three hours. Only used this tactic to go home though.

Right, and only for unusual circumstances.

I would bet my paycheck that after the merger there will be no ATL base. As far as JB goes the 190 trips are rarely commutable on both ends without a bit of seniority. The bus is way better.

JB has never actually closed a domicile city. Could definitely happen, but I'm not sure I agree they will close ATL.

True, but they sure made a mess by moving 22 miles. Hopefully learning occurred for our sake.

yeah I do see them definitely staying in ATL to be a thorn in Delta's side, like what they're trying to do in EWR to United and AA in MIA. (DFW too)

So what would you call what happened in LGB?? A transfer? Long Beach is a separate city from LA and really served the OC market and they closed that. They will close up bases down the road as the merger inefficiencies get worked out. Don’t know which cities but I’d put money on them closing what isn’t working.

Most would not reasonably call that a domicile closure. If you could drive to work in LGB you can still drive to work at LAX. When pilots worry about their "base" being closed they are primarily worried about becoming commuters, which isn't what happened in LA. How the union/JB chose to have the positions all rebid is another matter, but JB still kept a base in the Los Angeles greater catchment area. You are arguing just to argue on this one. And the new base in the same catchment area is set to be 2-3x the size of the old base, which will help everyone in the bases seniority. That's an Overall win even if your drive got a little longer.

Alpa disagreed and it cost me and many others a tremendous amount of seniority in my base.

Agree, not sure I agree with the way they did that. Did you drive to LGB? Do you drive to LAX?

Wrong,

Your overall win cost me and 60 others like me a driving commute on the other side of the country.

Because of the way ALPA made it be rebid. Which I do NOT agree with.

When you can hold LAX, will you drive to work?

I'm sure the thousands of pilots over their careers who actually had their bases close, and had to commute permanently have a lot of sympathy for you.

You aren’t understanding. I never was in LAX or LGB. Your non base closer was handled exactly like a base closer and cost pilots on the other side of the country to lose their driving commute, equipment and or seat. It most definitely caused havoc and was not an overwhelming win for anyone. That’s what I commented on. Then to have the prior claim cancelled out and watch Jr guys be able to use theirs was a real treat. I don’t care what you called it closer or not it was a terrible way to do for myself and many others.

I drove to both. It was a co terminal. Wasn’t cool the way it was handled.

To my original point, I'm mentally committed to being a commuter whether that's to JFK or ATL -- hence why I'm not going the "pick the airline/base you can drive to" because it isn't that guaranteed (unless we are taking Delta/ATL). And also mentally open if not committed to just buying tickets to make that commute less onerous.

Completely agree. Should have had a negotiated compromise when the base moved 22 ***MILE******* down the road.

Not necessarily, however that pilots had to bid into a new base instead of just slide the whole base 22 miles north means it was essentially handled as a base being closed and opening up a new base.

That’s a map of Long Beach, which we’re in. On the border of Los Angeles, which is where LAX is. 22 MILES away. Get yourself a new map.