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Staffing and the QSO
It baffled me when everyone received the disclaimer that our QSO would not entertain discussions about basing or staffing.
Likewise, many communications from the scheduling committee contain a disclaimer that they have nothing to do with staffing. If both of these are true, then we've got a pretty unique system for determining how many pilots it takes to run the airline. And - as evidenced by near constant dips into "staffing crisis" we don't seem to be doing a very good job. The 190's are not going to help matters. I've seen staffing at three airlines and in every case it was tied very closely to pairing creation, planned absences, military reserves, simulator time, aircraft orders, attrition, FMLA, management pilots, pseudo-management pilots, etc. Staffing and scheduling must work in close harmony. It is going to be very difficult to claim that any particular "crisis" is just a short-term bump in the road when it happens year after year or month after month. I wonder if the people doing staffing understand what open time means to the pilot group? Open time = the chance to break 80 if you got short changed = Swaps = PTO = Schedule Flexibility = the chance to break 90 if you have the days off to do it. Open time is an accumulator that ensures pilot quality of life. Breaking 80 is a big deal and 75 sucks. Staffing is part of the equation that ensures that we can provide at least 80 hours to our line holders and provide some realistic rules for our reserves. If more and more people come in under 80 hours and when FO's realize how far out the $120,000 mark is getting - the time-and-a-half pay system will be seen as a bad deal for a lot of people. When straight pay will provide higher career earnings for more pilots than our current system. I would hope that we have the integrity to change the system. The big question is: does anybody know who does the staffing at jetBlue and do they have any interaction at all with our committee pilots? If we're essentially being told that staffing is none of our business, I would strongly disagree. Maybe we can get a detailed description in the White Papers at some point. Realistic |
I just hope they can do something about the reserves. I don't know how it is everywhere else but Long Beach is a B-atch.
I get junior manned into my days off on a regular basis and they call me at 4 am to release to fly all night. It's like going back to th stone ages when reserves were 24 hours 7 days a week. and if someone else telss me to bid back to kennedy if I don't like it, I'm going Columbine!!!!! kidding |
Any word on the QSO?
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I heard they had a great time. Then everybody got junior manned.
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Originally Posted by jblumindtrick
I get junior manned into my days off on a regular basis and they call me at 4 am to release to fly all night.
It's like going back to th stone ages when reserves were 24 hours 7 days a week. and if someone else telss me to bid back to kennedy if I don't like it, I'm going Columbine!!!!! kidding The only reason you get junior manned into your days off is because you let them! Just say NO thank you. If you allow them to keep behaving like that then they will keep behaving like that. STICK TOGETHER! FNG |
Reserves
Remember,
Management "promised" (Dave Barger and Dave Bushy) that the shortage of reserves we had last summer would not happen again..... Oops, I guess they already forgot..... Oops, just like the summer of 03 when comapred to summer of 02..... But now it's starting even earlier in the the year (winter/spring vs spring/summer) What will it be like in July? Right now we are taking it in the shorts for on time stats. A lot of that could be fixed if we had the correct number of reserves to man late flights (both front and back end crews), allow PTO vs forcing guys to call sick, excessive JR manning (which cost $$$$). FNG |
The spin this weekend was weather. Yes the weather was a trigger, but we could see a looming crisis a week ago. STAFFING!
Make no mistake - understaffing is a conscious decision by people with Wharton MBA's and optimization on the brain. We've all seen it before and we've all heard the excuses and the thank you's. You simply have to provide enough pilots to cover the dips like we just had and to cover the open time and the PTO that will be required to meet the expectations that the White Papers have set out. I don't know what staffing model they are using but they need to sit a few regional guys down in a room with a chalk board and it would be fixed. It would be costly, but it would be fixed. Realistic |
Reserves and QSO
For the manning,
This weekend was a perfect example of a lack of reserves. There were many airplanes just sitting around for hours waiting for either the pilots or flight attendants to get there (plus lots of cutomers). Had there been plenty of reserves many of these flight could have been launched to keep the system moving and the late crew members released or put on reserve/airport standby IAW the flight scheduling guide to pick up the next batch of late flights. I know that we have always made it thru with lots of reflowing crews, junior mannning crews and volunteers. But I think it all fell apart this time. I know we cancelled a bunch of flights for crews. They may try to blame it on wx, but it was just a lack of reserves/crews. I hope that the senior management see this for what it is and fix it (Dave and David). I have no doubt that the VPs in operations (A and D) have not been fully informative to the big guys about the status of manning (trying to save $$$), but this will be hard to hide! Think of the cost to give refunds, vouchers, hotel rooms, meals, etc. All that money could have been used to pay more crews. Back on the QSO, has anyone talked to any one that was there and has some gouge on the discussions, directions we are going and what type of changes we will see (and when)? I haven't heard a think from the guys there or from management. Did they take a blood oath not to tell anyone? Just looking for some info. Thanks, FNG |
"Optimizer"
I see this term thrown about quite a bit, but honestly I have only a vague idea of what it means. Can someone explain? |
Originally Posted by Lennon
"Optimizer"
I see this term thrown about quite a bit, but honestly I have only a vague idea of what it means. Can someone explain? FNG FNG |
Optimization is also a mindset which we possess in abundance at jetBlue.
When I read the first issue of the White Papers, the first thing I said was they're gonna need to hire a lot more pilots if they expect to deliver on this. The bottom line is that it's much much cheaper to keep as few bodies on the property as possible. You can promise the world but keep the staffing tight. Open time and reserves are a bean counters number one target and we at jetBlue are no different than everybody else when it comes to cutting costs. That's fine. Just stop making promises. -R |
Apparently, even our customers can figure out that we're under staffed.
But sick calls and weather is our story and we're sticking to it. -R |
To the newly appointed staffing gurus:
Reserves and Open Time are very expensive so get ready for some serious disagreements with the people you have to convince. It's hard to make a business case for pilot QOL or more premium pay for a labor group that is viewed as highly compensated. Don't just staff to run the airline. Staff to keep your promises. White Papers number 1 was used as a justification for weak base pay. Good luck. |
speaking of the white papers
where are they? I went on the intranet to try to edumacate muself and they weren't on there anymore..........hmmmm |
Bluer,
White Papers are back on-line - plus 1. I love the latest IBM commercials. "my Lord, a giant sloth is attacking the kingdom!" "what should we do?" "we need a witch hunt!" "yes a witch hunt!" "and then a White Paper!" "a White Paper? What do you do with a White Paper?" "you READ IT!" More on topic: I would like to place a friendly wager that Dynamic Basing (the QSO was able to hammer out a definition at the last round table) will never happen. The hints were in the memo from the QSO. We will have automated jetway swaps which will place the burden of completing pairings on the pilots who bid them. Boston will be a big traditional base and LGB reserves will travel up and down the coast and drive all over the LA basin covering broken JFK trips. Cool! |
I ran into a committee man the other day and heard the old
"we opened LGB and FLL for QOL. We really should be running everything from JFK." Oh really? OK. Let's do it. Bring everyone back to JFK and when we realize we can't cover spares and broken trips out West, we can all BID, for reserve TDY with hotels and per diem. And before we do that, let's make sure we have some scheduling guide language that prohibits the little out-of-seniority side deals that have become so popular at jetBlue. Actually, why fly at all? Maybe I could get a full-time committee assignment and work out of my home office. That would be worth at least 90 hours and 20 days off, wouldn't it? Love that premium pay! |
the key to the gravy train is in the "career interest profile"
when we ALL have office/committee premium pay then we'll have our raises. |
Dynamic Basing
Realistic,
Interestingly, if there is opposition to Dynamic Basing, it comes mostly from line pilots worried about "zipcode seniority," some of whom are on the QSO. The finance guys in Darien have said that Dynamic basing is cost efficient, saves on hotels and such, and would not cost anything since there would be no admin support at dynamic bases. Hopefully, automated jetway trades would be an addition to, not an alternative for, dynamic basing. The pilot group at JB is not a monolith. The pilots at the QSO all have different viewpoints based on where they sit, and the QSO was an opportunity for them to have some influence. Pilots who do not live near OAK or BOS do not care about DB. It will certainly be interesting to see who wins, but as someone said, follow the money! |
"Thinking disables the team."
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Originally Posted by Meworry?
Realistic,
Interestingly, if there is opposition to Dynamic Basing, it comes mostly from line pilots worried about "zipcode seniority," some of whom are on the QSO. The finance guys in Darien have said that Dynamic basing is cost efficient, saves on hotels and such, and would not cost anything since there would be no admin support at dynamic bases. Hopefully, automated jetway trades would be an addition to, not an alternative for, dynamic basing. The pilot group at JB is not a monolith. The pilots at the QSO all have different viewpoints based on where they sit, and the QSO was an opportunity for them to have some influence. Pilots who do not live near OAK or BOS do not care about DB. It will certainly be interesting to see who wins, but as someone said, follow the money! I have no problem with Dynamic Basing, especially if it saves $$ and makes the life better for some of our pilots, but there has to be several conditions. First, everytime we have opened up a new base, the productivity of JFK has taken a big hit (as in FLL and LGB). If it comes to pass (and I think it will, it saves $$$) then there should be no effort to make these bases productive, IE even with JFK, FLL, LGB in productivity. Pilots at these bases get the benefit of being based at home and should give up some productivity. This should also be the core of FLL and LGB as these bases were opened for pilot quality of life and to save $$$ not to give them parity in productivity. But of course that isn't what happned. Thus the main benefit should be quality of life, not productivity. Second, If JFK productivity goes down the toilet, then DB should end. No questions asked, just end it. I think that most pilots will support DB if it doesn't affect their productivity. If the majority take a major hit then the support for DB will go away. Then, maybe as others have posted. we need to move all pilots back to JFK and get rid of all pilot bases until we can make larger ones vs the small pilot bases we currently have. (wouldn't that **** off the FLL senior pilots and KK) I do hope that the automated gateway trades are available for all bases. It has the potential to "almost" create a dynamic base at any JB city with a large or small pilot group. I do have one big fear. That the management will only implement changes that help the company, and ignore changes that help the pilots but may cost some $$$ or force crew services to work harder (read as "do their job"). Anything they they don't like they just "study" it till it dies or is just ignored. I hope not, but I am afraid it might happen. Just my opinion.... FNG |
Whatever happens, until we have more TRUE geographically spread pilot bases, quality of life for the vast majority of our pilots (who are mostly commuters) will continue to deteriorate.
Economies of scale dictate that fewer bases increase profit margins. It will be painful as we grow into our big shoes. Plain and simple. I think that a lot of "wishful thinking" is causing many to feel disturbed because really nothing will happen until Darien says it will. For now, get ready to bid for the E-190 and/or Boston or not. |
Originally Posted by FNG320
....IE even with JFK, FLL, LGB in productivity. Pilots at these bases get the benefit of being based at home and should give up some productivity. This should also be the core of FLL and LGB as these bases were opened for pilot quality of life and to save $$$ not to give them parity in productivity. .....Just my opinion....
FNG |
Originally Posted by banger
Just curious, do you know that 85% of the pilots from LGB are commuters?
Just my opinion.... FNG |
Originally Posted by FNG320
Banger, I didn't that was the current situation. However, when LGB first opened up and had less crew members, that was not the case. In addition, those that chose to commute to LGB or to FLL knew that these bases were suppose to be set up for QOL and cost savings, not productivity. Yet, that seems to be what certain people want. Get the base started for any reason, then demand parity or better in productivity.
Just my opinion.... FNG What do you guys want? Do you want JB to be like those other outfits that you either left or got furloughed from? Sure seems like it to me, but then, that's just my opinion, right? Geeezzzz.............. Just MY opinion!!!! |
Originally Posted by jetblue320
And what is wrong with parity? Seems to me that the LGB/FLL crews aren't "demanding" anything. It sure looks like it's the JFK crews (or at least in your opinion) that are getting screwed. Did you happen to notice that out of the 75 crews in FLL that alot of them are in the top 30% of their respective seat seniority? But then, we all need to be equal right? Please remember that before there were out bases, we ALL were JFK crews, some of us for 3+ years when the majority of the pilot staff was thumbing their noses at us from their comfortable seats in the cockpit of a USAir/UAL/DL/AAL (pick one) plane. Or, bashing us anonymously on Flightinfo.com or assorted other websites like that. Now, you have just transferred your anger and resentment to Airline Pilot Central.
What do you guys want? Do you want JB to be like those other outfits that you either left or got furloughed from? Sure seems like it to me, but then, that's just my opinion, right? Geeezzzz.............. Just MY opinion!!!! Problem is you don't seem to understand (can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink..... actually a U.S. Marine can, but lets not go there). The base (FLL) was opened under the quise for "quality of life" and that they would give up some productivity to get the QOL. Well, that didn't happen. Within 6 months, they/you got quality of life AND productivty at the expense of JFK. They may have some senioritgy there, but it was their choice to go to FLL for QOL not productivity, that was how the base was sold to the management. Then once they get there then it was time to raise the seniority flag. Thats BS... The stats from when FLL started speak for themselves. Then when you have the guy who builds the pairings living in FLL you are assured to get FLL to the top of the heap. Hey, that is the facts. If you can't stand the truth, turn off your computer and go away. Hey, lets make it equal. Lets just bring all pilots back to JFK and you can bid with the whole group. I just love it when the magic "SENIORITY" word gets involved. Seniority, Seniority, Seniority..... Seniority should be the difference between 15 days off and 18 days off, or 90 hours vs 82 hours, not 18 days with 90-95 hours vs 12-13 days with 70-75 hours. Check some of the lines that the JR bidders at all bases get, (Even FLL). Your seniority is on the backs of the poor JR bidders at FLL and most of the bidders at JFK (senior and junior). Everything you spout is more about "YOU" instead of what is best for the majority or even the company. I can tell you are a real team player. If you don't like it, then yell "SENIORITY" and wait for everyone to run in fear. In my opinion, your opinion is not worth much. Some of us whant change to improve the QOL, benefits and pay for all of us. You are only interested in the QOL, benefits and pay for YOURSELF and your SENIORITY click at FLL. Hey, if you can't stand the truth, then again, turn off your computer... And that my opinion..... FNG |
Whatever the issue may seem to be, I bet if we ALL had better base pay pilots wouldn't be starving, fighting and looking for shelter.
I don't mind non-optimal pairings, I don't mind being junior. I do mind not being able to pay the bills. When I fly the worst nonproductive trips with the least amount of time off and make $50k less it creates turmoil. Our base pay is STILL quite low. If we can fix this fundamental problem the rest of the problems will not fester. No matter what base you are senior enough to want to hold, you are underpaid. Especially if you expect to enter the New York or California economies. Alaska just took a 26-30 percent pay cut. But still, look at their new rates. I feel we are worth more. We contribute an intrinsic value which should not be diluted to that of just "crewmember". Imagine the headlines stating JetBlue pilot group takes pay RAISES. It is not out of the question. If our business model runs off the fact that we make more money by paying pilots less then let's just cut to the chase. Let's take 95 percent pay cuts and just drive down CASM. Let's get CASM down to 5.5 cents. |
Originally Posted by FNG320
Problem is you don't seem to understand (can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink..... actually a U.S. Marine can, but lets not go there). The base (FLL) was opened under the quise for "quality of life" and that they would give up some productivity to get the QOL. Well, that didn't happen. Within 6 months, they/you got quality of life AND productivty at the expense of JFK. They may have some senioritgy there, but it was their choice to go to FLL for QOL not productivity, that was how the base was sold to the management. Then once they get there then it was time to raise the seniority flag. Thats BS... The stats from when FLL started speak for themselves. Then when you have the guy who builds the pairings living in FLL you are assured to get FLL to the top of the heap. Hey, that is the facts. If you can't stand the truth, turn off your computer and go away.
Hey, lets make it equal. Lets just bring all pilots back to JFK and you can bid with the whole group. I just love it when the magic "SENIORITY" word gets involved. Seniority, Seniority, Seniority..... Seniority should be the difference between 15 days off and 18 days off, or 90 hours vs 82 hours, not 18 days with 90-95 hours vs 12-13 days with 70-75 hours. Check some of the lines that the JR bidders at all bases get, (Even FLL). Your seniority is on the backs of the poor JR bidders at FLL and most of the bidders at JFK (senior and junior). Everything you spout is more about "YOU" instead of what is best for the majority or even the company. I can tell you are a real team player. If you don't like it, then yell "SENIORITY" and wait for everyone to run in fear. In my opinion, your opinion is not worth much. Some of us whant change to improve the QOL, benefits and pay for all of us. You are only interested in the QOL, benefits and pay for YOURSELF and your SENIORITY click at FLL. Hey, if you can't stand the truth, then again, turn off your computer... And that my opinion..... FNG Don't tell me that I am not a team player Pal, I started this team on first string. I think that you are just a bitter individual that thinks the world (and JB) owes you a living. Have a nice day anyway, although I think I am too late telling you that. I am done conversing with you and the likes of you because I have better things to do with my time off. All 19 days of it!! Sorry to hear about your bad luck. C yaaa |
Originally Posted by jetblue320
Tell me again what I don't understand? I understand completely. I understand that your opinions are all that count and the rest of us (that started this company BTW) just have to suck it up and level the field.
Don't tell me that I am not a team player Pal, I started this team on first string. I think that you are just a bitter individual that thinks the world (and JB) owes you a living. Have a nice day anyway, although I think I am too late telling you that. I am done conversing with you and the likes of you because I have better things to do with my time off. All 19 days of it!! Sorry to hear about your bad luck. C yaaa Overall, I am just disappointed that we can't work together. Just my opinion..... FNG |
Originally Posted by jetblue320
Tell me again what I don't understand? I understand completely. I understand that your opinions are all that count and the rest of us (that started this company BTW) just have to suck it up and level the field.
Don't tell me that I am not a team player Pal, I started this team on first string. I think that you are just a bitter individual that thinks the world (and JB) owes you a living. Have a nice day anyway, although I think I am too late telling you that. I am done conversing with you and the likes of you because I have better things to do with my time off. All 19 days of it!! Sorry to hear about your bad luck. C yaaa Another gem from the "I've got mine" crowd. |
Qso
Hey, I thought this was the Staffing and QSO forum. When did it become the "Bash each other and air our dirty laundry for all the other airlines to see" forum? I'd like to give my opinion, but you guys are scaring me! Oh, OK, I'll give it anyway.
Pay raises: I don't think so, not until net earnings are up over a dollar a share and forecast to stay there. Then, base pay can go up and our options might actually be worth something. Profits first, then pay. The reverse has been tried at other airlines. SWA has great pay, but they make money at 67% load factors (thanks to fuel hedging) and we would all still be making FO pay if we had gone there when we were hired. I came here instead of SWA because I would make more money the first 10 years, and that is still true (for me, maybe not for new hires). Finally, our rapid growth had been fueled by sky-high debt, unlike SWA. We have to make money (read cash flow, real money, not paper) to service that debt, and therefore stay in business. Patience is a virtue. Bases: Nothing wrong with small productivity differences, but no one agreed to "lower productivity" just to get a base. I was here, went to all the pocket sessions. QOL was a big factor, but bases had to make financial sense, and we "cannot call ourselves a nationwide airline" without a west coast base, so said Dave Barger. The number one factor in pairing construction is cost, followed by productivity and QOL. You commute to JFK, I commute to LGB, why should my productivity suffer to protect yours? However, I agree that artificially evening out productivity to within five minutes is unnecessary, especially if it is done by slamming the junior guys with unproductive trips while the senior guys enjoy 3 hours more average daily credit. 15-20 mnutes is, I believe, a reasonable window. Thanks for listening! |
Lennon, Fng
Couldn't agree more with Meworry as far as posting is concerned. If you want act like your on Flightinfo.com fine. I'm out of here right behind jetblue320. Maybe if we pretend we are speaking face to face we can have a good discussion. I don't think it was Realistic's idea for us to frag our co-workers for all the world to see. Thank-you.
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Originally Posted by kinetic
Couldn't agree more with Meworry as far as posting is concerned. If you want act like your on Flightinfo.com fine. I'm out of here right behind jetblue320. Maybe if we pretend we are speaking face to face we can have a good discussion. I don't think it was Realistic's idea for us to frag our co-workers for all the world to see. Thank-you.
Well if someone is in front of my face blowing gas about how SENIOR they are and accusing me of looking down my nose at JBLU pilots before I came here...what I typed is exactly what I'd say. I read here because I value my job and I want it to be better than it is now. 320 is just a part of the "I got here first, sucks for you" contingent. What sort of meaningful dialogue is that? |
"The big question is: does anybody know who does the staffing at jetBlue and do they have any interaction at all with our committee pilots?"
So, back to Realistic's initial post on this thread. Does anyone know the answer to the above question? |
Originally Posted by Lennon
Well if someone is in front of my face blowing gas about how SENIOR they are and accusing me of looking down my nose at JBLU pilots before I came here...what I typed is exactly what I'd say.
I read here because I value my job and I want it to be better than it is now. 320 is just a part of the "I got here first, sucks for you" contingent. What sort of meaningful dialogue is that? The mechanisms are in place for them to get involved and make changes if they feel it is unfair and imbalanced. Join a committee, form a new one, get involved! The survey will be out soon and although some feel that is merely barking at the moon, it is one of those mechanisms. We all feel we have the "right" to fair pay and schedules and that is fine, but to rant and rave on a anonymous web site is futile other than making yourself feel good and righteous for the moment. There were a lot of barbs in some of the things were said to me (and my senior peers) and I guess I just got plain defensive. If you perceive that to mean that I am a "got mine, screw you" kinda person, well, I apologize, because the plain truth is it's just not so. I agree that there is dispairity in the methods of our scheduling system, but it is what it is, at least for now. I have the same right to feel and voice my opinion as the next guy, and if it is taken the wrong way, well so be it. Please do one thing....try seeing things from different perspectives and maybe you will understand that there are two sides to every story. Once again, if I torqued off my fellow pilots, I apologize. I had hoped that this forum would be a bit different than that "other one". I didn't think I would have to defend and justify my existence at JB, but maybe I was wrong. I have certainly been there before! C yaaaa |
Good post 320.
My apologies as well. |
Originally Posted by jetblue320
Alright already, maybe you think that we don't care about the masses and I will say that is not true. I do care that a junior pilot gets 72 hours in 16-18 days and a senior one gets 87+ in 12-13 days but the truth of the matter is all in perception and point of view. My big beef with the few here that are complaining about this injustice is that they only just beef, and not do anything else about it other than whine.
The mechanisms are in place for them to get involved and make changes if they feel it is unfair and imbalanced. Join a committee, form a new one, get involved! The survey will be out soon and although some feel that is merely barking at the moon, it is one of those mechanisms. We all feel we have the "right" to fair pay and schedules and that is fine, but to rant and rave on a anonymous web site is futile other than making yourself feel good and righteous for the moment. There were a lot of barbs in some of the things were said to me (and my senior peers) and I guess I just got plain defensive. If you perceive that to mean that I am a "got mine, screw you" kinda person, well, I apologize, because the plain truth is it's just not so. I agree that there is dispairity in the methods of our scheduling system, but it is what it is, at least for now. I have the same right to feel and voice my opinion as the next guy, and if it is taken the wrong way, well so be it. Please do one thing....try seeing things from different perspectives and maybe you will understand that there are two sides to every story. Once again, if I torqued off my fellow pilots, I apologize. I had hoped that this forum would be a bit different than that "other one". I didn't think I would have to defend and justify my existence at JB, but maybe I was wrong. I have certainly been there before! C yaaaa 320, I think you are right on with a lot of what you say. I just disagree with some of it. Hey, we all have opinions and sometimes they are different. I do try to make sure I have the data to back up what I say, and there are some things here I plan to check into. I am glad to hear you are as concerned for the little guy. Sometimes your post go way opver to the dark side and the "its all about me" and "seniority". That may not be what you mean, but that is what ends up in print. Not that you shouldn't be concerned but at times riding that horse too much makes you a bigger target and hides the fact that you do care about the whole pilot group. You make the comment that "My big beef with the few here that are complaining about this injustice is that they only just beef, and not do anything else about it other than whine. If that were true, the you would be right. But I have tried to work in the system(s) as you have suggested. The annual JB company wide survey, the annual scheduling survey, the SHOW ME THE MONEY program (both of them), letters to chief pilot, crew services, different commmittees, Dave Bushy, etc. Vollenteered for several committees, etc. I've been "ranting and raving" with facts directly to the proper people but nothing is happening. Been doing this for years now, and there has been almost no change and almost no communication. Actually there has been communication, but none of it answers the questions or fixes the problems. How about some updates, gives us the possible solutions, gives us an input, etc. Overall, I've heard nothing of significance. The QSO is a start, but haven't heard a thing since and my sources in the QSO say almost nothing has been done. There are a lot of "empires" here at JetBlue. The problem is, the person(s) that owns each empire (crew services, Operations, and more) don't like or want outside intervention. It tends to be my way or the highway. As to why do this on a message board? This board allows me and other to ask questions and b1tch about what is going on (or not going on) and maybe get some answers from the bigger pool of knowledge. When we fly each month we typcally only fly with 4-8 different people and maybe run into a few more in the pilot lounge, but that doesn't promote the exchange of information. For pilots based in FLL and LGB, it is even a small pool of pilots and infomation exchange is even less. Why do we do it here? We have no other place to do so. No company message board, no functional suggestion program. No real answers to our questions or complaints. Some guys are fearful of directly addressing the big guys for fear they may lose their job. (not good). The constant "weve got 10,000 applications on line from people who want to work here" from all of management is a direct threat or at least it means "if you don't like it the way it is, then leave" 320, even you have said this on numerous post on this and other boards. Pocket sessions? I've tried. They tend to be the "warm and fuzzy" pep talk meeting and lets hold hands, sing kume by ya, and lets work harder. Not that it isn't needed, but the hard questions are rarely answered. Even the pilot only type sessions, when the questions get hard it is either "we will look into it" with no reply ever given or "Sorry thats the way it is". What about the committees (values, scheduling, etc). Most of the information we seem to get from them is very vague, edited or non-existant. Wasn't it seveal months ago that the Values committee met with the big guys? About what? About who? What were managements response and what are the results. IF it is a personal issue for a specific pilot, that should stay private, but some issus address, even personal ones (edited for privacy) may help all of us avoid the same trap/mistake. I would like to get some minutes of this meeting and know what was discussed and what were the answers. The same for all of the committees. If they are our reps, then we deserve to hear what they know, all of it. Ok, ok, ok, I think I have rambled on enought for this day. 320, I agree with a lot of what you say and we are similar in opinion on more than you think, but I am on the other side of some of the issues. I guess we can agree to disagree. I know when someone can give me the facts, I can change my opinion, but I need the facts. I hope you can do the same. Just my opinion.... FNG |
All,
I do hope we can keep things professional, factual, and fraternal. And I would be dissapointed to see things degenerate into a jetBlue bashing session, or worse, a pilot bashing forum. This pilot group could use some unity. I hope that the pilots who are happy with their situation will be patient and tolerant with those of us who feel that things are a little off kilter. Nothing can be wittled down to a sound bite. Pay Inequality - Shrinking Benefits - Scheduling Shenanigans - FAR Loopholes - Staffing Illusions - Committee Fiefdoms - Vapor Stock - Etc. These are all complicated subjects with arguments that can be made from many different angles. None of these things makes JetBlue a bad airline. We're growing fast and people are doing what people do. We have a right to be vigilant and to speak up when we see something we don't like. But we should do it in a respectful manner or we will never be taken seriously. Why did I push for this board? Because having these issues discussed by WE THE PILOTS in a public forum is a very powerful motivator. It SHOULD be anonymous and it SHOULD be public. Private hasn't worked. I too have written the scheduling committee, Bushy, the White Papers, Al, and my Chief Pilot. I have never gotten an answer that made sense. In some cases I've gotten no reply what-so-ever. And, in many cases I was given a "go away and fly your airplane" smoke screen. A few answers were just downright incompetent. I've spoken up at pocket sessions. Lately, anything confrontrational just gets the boys from Kew wound up. The last discussion I listened to with D.N. he stated, "the pay is what it is. If you guys decide to do something collectively then I guess that's you're perogative." The committees and the people in management have their hands on the reigns of my career and thus my family's well-being. This board is MY chosen vehicle for keeping a spotlight on their decisions. Fly Safe, Realistic |
Originally Posted by FNG320
320,
I think you are right on with a lot of what you say. I just disagree with some of it. Hey, we all have opinions and sometimes they are different. I do try to make sure I have the data to back up what I say, and there are some things here I plan to check into. I am glad to hear you are as concerned for the little guy. Sometimes your post go way opver to the dark side and the "its all about me" and "seniority". That may not be what you mean, but that is what ends up in print. Not that you shouldn't be concerned but at times riding that horse too much makes you a bigger target and hides the fact that you do care about the whole pilot group. You make the comment that "My big beef with the few here that are complaining about this injustice is that they only just beef, and not do anything else about it other than whine. If that were true, the you would be right. But I have tried to work in the system(s) as you have suggested. The annual JB company wide survey, the annual scheduling survey, the SHOW ME THE MONEY program (both of them), letters to chief pilot, crew services, different commmittees, Dave Bushy, etc. Vollenteered for several committees, etc. I've been "ranting and raving" with facts directly to the proper people but nothing is happening. Been doing this for years now, and there has been almost no change and almost no communication. Actually there has been communication, but none of it answers the questions or fixes the problems. How about some updates, gives us the possible solutions, gives us an input, etc. Overall, I've heard nothing of significance. The QSO is a start, but haven't heard a thing since and my sources in the QSO say almost nothing has been done. There are a lot of "empires" here at JetBlue. The problem is, the person(s) that owns each empire (crew services, Operations, and more) don't like or want outside intervention. It tends to be my way or the highway. As to why do this on a message board? This board allows me and other to ask questions and b1tch about what is going on (or not going on) and maybe get some answers from the bigger pool of knowledge. When we fly each month we typcally only fly with 4-8 different people and maybe run into a few more in the pilot lounge, but that doesn't promote the exchange of information. For pilots based in FLL and LGB, it is even a small pool of pilots and infomation exchange is even less. Why do we do it here? We have no other place to do so. No company message board, no functional suggestion program. No real answers to our questions or complaints. Some guys are fearful of directly addressing the big guys for fear they may lose their job. (not good). The constant "weve got 10,000 applications on line from people who want to work here" from all of management is a direct threat or at least it means "if you don't like it the way it is, then leave" 320, even you have said this on numerous post on this and other boards. Pocket sessions? I've tried. They tend to be the "warm and fuzzy" pep talk meeting and lets hold hands, sing kume by ya, and lets work harder. Not that it isn't needed, but the hard questions are rarely answered. Even the pilot only type sessions, when the questions get hard it is either "we will look into it" with no reply ever given or "Sorry thats the way it is". What about the committees (values, scheduling, etc). Most of the information we seem to get from them is very vague, edited or non-existant. Wasn't it seveal months ago that the Values committee met with the big guys? About what? About who? What were managements response and what are the results. IF it is a personal issue for a specific pilot, that should stay private, but some issus address, even personal ones (edited for privacy) may help all of us avoid the same trap/mistake. I would like to get some minutes of this meeting and know what was discussed and what were the answers. The same for all of the committees. If they are our reps, then we deserve to hear what they know, all of it. Ok, ok, ok, I think I have rambled on enought for this day. 320, I agree with a lot of what you say and we are similar in opinion on more than you think, but I am on the other side of some of the issues. I guess we can agree to disagree. I know when someone can give me the facts, I can change my opinion, but I need the facts. I hope you can do the same. Just my opinion.... FNG Take care ad have a great weeknd. Hope your not spending it on duty! |
Originally Posted by jblumindtrick
"The big question is: does anybody know who does the staffing at jetBlue and do they have any interaction at all with our committee pilots?"
So, back to Realistic's initial post on this thread. Does anyone know the answer to the above question? Yes. The Crewmember Manpower Planning Team includes Chief Pilots, Crew Services, Finance (Darien), and the Scheduling Committee. Might be a few other cats and dogs. John Couluris, soon to be head of Crew Services and a JFK based FO, has developed some of his own manpower planning tools to feed into the CMPT. They meet monthly. Sounds like another tough summer, with things beginning to improve in September (yep, that sounds familiar, but I'm optimistic. I think John will work out well). |
Originally Posted by Meworry?
Yes. The Crewmember Manpower Planning Team includes Chief Pilots, Crew Services, Finance (Darien), and the Scheduling Committee. Might be a few other cats and dogs. John Couluris, soon to be head of Crew Services and a JFK based FO, has developed some of his own manpower planning tools to feed into the CMPT. They meet monthly. Sounds like another tough summer, with things beginning to improve in September (yep, that sounds familiar, but I'm optimistic. I think John will work out well).
I can only see a few ways to fix this problems. 1. Increase the hours per pilot to 90+ hours. (85min, 90tgt, 95max) Easy to do, they just need to set the parameters in Classbid and it is done. 2. Increase the productivity of the lines so guys still keep quality. The scheduling committee needs to take out some of the imputs/locks/limits in the optimizer that limit the productivity and get the most productive pairings they can, even if it cost the company some $$$ in hotel bills, deadheads, etc. If not, the number of sick pilots will increase as the PTO goes down like it has every summer so far.(maybe not right, but a fact of life so far at JB) 3. Increase the total number of reserves. Not easy to do, and it should have been done 6 months ago. Since the manning plan has been so messed up so far this year and the number of reserves often below the minimum, especially on the weekends and holidays. I have no confidence it will be fixed this summer. I am also concerned when I see the Darien (finance) guys involved in operational decisions. I know saving money is the way we operate, but being frugal sometimes takes down the wrong path or a path that doesn't fix the problem or makes worse in an effort to save money. Maybe with John Couluris running the show (does this mean he is replacing Rich Galloway?) and the pilots point of view, things will be different. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Good luck to all of us... Just my opinion FNG |
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