Other cape guys aren’t like that. He just seems happy and lucky to be here.

You don’t get what you deserve, you get what you can negotiate. FACT

I see my analogy upset some folks. Oh well.

The takeaway is that people who work at one place, and complain that they don't make as much as employees at the other place do can either a) apply to the higher-paying place and move on up, or b) accept that they work at a place that pays them less. Of course, trying to convince mgmt to increase their wage is always an added option to b) (in fact, it is the preferred option to whining on an internet forum about how they deserve more).

No one's arguing that our skills are worth something. But EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU at JB applied knowing the differences between JB and the legacies. Why accept the job, if it wasn't what you truly wanted? That seems to be the point of contention between those who like it here (85-90%) and those who choose to complain.

I prefer to enjoy my days off, save as much as I can to enjoy my life after JB, and live life to the fullest. Getting mad about where I chose to work is stupid, because that is where I CHOSE to work. I have no one to blame but myself if my life were to suck because of my job.

Agree.

This made me laugh. Sound almost.exactky like something Dwight.from the office would say. FACT

You do realize jetBlue used to pay the avg of the legacies correct? So your argument is what now... that you see bluejet as a
Tier 2 airline?

I cannot speak to the past, only to now. Now, our PS sux. Our retirement needs work (DaFuQ is 5% PS going to retirement? PS is for us NOW, not when we are old!)

Tell me more about 5% of the PS going to retirement? I think you just outed yourself as a non-pilot, or a really ill-informed one.

Not only that, but pay (peer average) adjusted annually, plus 150% for all credit above 78 hours (even a sick call) and better health insurance.

This is just a sample of how far JB has fallen since I was hired. So yeah, the "you knew what you were getting" when you came here argument doesn't work.

Not surprised 3.60KIAS say such things.

Right?!?

He literally can't be a line pilot when you add up all of his comments.

Ok, you’re definitely not a pilot at Jetblue. If you are then just.....wow. Retirement is right up there with the Legacies, better than Southwest. Maybe you should ask a friend that works at Jetblue for a copy of the CBA, so you can look for yourself.

Different screen same talking points from;

2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2019
and now.

Doesn't make it right. Just the same portion of the learning curve continually repeats itself as we continue to hire.

I have seen it on every committee I have been on. The company counts on newbie ignorance to slow the pace of the pilot group down as they learn for themselves all the lessons the previous committee group or pilots in the group have already learned.

Then we hire some more and the process repeats itself. 360 is what this company is desperate to find. Those that have 4.5-grade point average in TMAAT you turned a negative into a positive, looked the other way, found the bright spot, made a conflated rationalization. Then the company adds them into a project pilots status or interview team which makes them even more special and that the rest of us don't see or have the full picture of bluejet. Funny thing is our eyes are wide open and theirs are not yet. Sometimes they open and sometimes they are not. But it takes time which is what the company is counting on.

Time. It keeps marching on.

Yeah, but you knew JB was going to get worse when you got hired. And lemonade.

So funny
Filler

You've been here longer than me. If you're not aware of how your retirement is being funded then I cannot help you further.

Retirement Advantage no longer applies to the pilot group.

If you are referring to the ledger entry at LSC then, of course, the left pocket is funding the right pocket.

That is what is happening now with our base pay rates and block hours and pairing construction and PTOSB, new VDA FCFS window (prem OT) and other items to get the new contract as close to zero cost. It is what this company has always done.

Wow somebody resurrected a thread of mine from 9 years ago and now it's turned into :eek:

If I had three hands they would all be plastered to my forehead.

Yup until they changed the rules. Just like PS both were just fine until.......

I think there was an article that pretty much said by the end of this Q or next the cost “headwinds” from the pilot contract will be 0....that was quick.

And totally foreseeable. Heck, it was near zero on day 1.

"We will get 'em next time!"®

TMAAT when you knew and what did you do?

The average -$1, A YEAR LATER. Don’t forget that part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, you are 100% correct. BUT, it's still MUCH better than we have right now.

I'll take peer-set average (the old peer-set), a year later, with 150% above 78 hours over what we have now 100% (codified of course).

Before anyone says something stupid, they took that all away before we voted for a union. Took it away, not negotiated it away.

But hey, we knew they were going take it away years later, when we got hired right? And lemonade.

Still a rule change excuse me a peer set change ;)

Question for JetBlue guys
 

When I was hired we were within a couple bucks an hour of DAL, if your looking at rates only.

Also only paid 10% into retirement when peer set was only the big 4 as well. Then Raised it to 13 after adding to the peer set.

Of course the entire time with a 5% cliff on PS funding part of that “retirement”.

I’m not saying it’s better now I’m just saying it wasn’t all roses then either. There is a lot of history that got us to where we are now. Unfortunately I don’t think we had a militant enough pilot group to push us into the higher peer set with the arbitrator. Had the MEC sent it back we would’ve been iced. If your going to get iced you have to have the will of a very militant group to push the company outside of the negotiating table.

Let’s learn our lesson and be truly ready for next time. There is so much more required beyond pickets. It’s the everyday that gets you the contract you deserve.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is everyone so F-ing afraid of being iced?! F-ing ice us then!! Who do you think that summer would have been worse off for, the pilots or the company? GD it man...when is this pilot group going to grow some balls and stand up for itself. Like watching a bunch of battered women walking around sometimes, I swear.

I have 3 of these 'Blue Darts' sitting in my email junk file. . .collecting dust. . . They will go to the highest bidder. I take Bitcoin, Apple Pay, Venmo, all to an off shore account. Message me if interested. It's a veritable bargain for a 50% chance of getting hired!

Question for JetBlue guys
 

You completely missed my point. The pilot group as a whole wasn’t ready for it. Too many helpers. We get iced, all the helpers keep helping. Hopefully they have learned, but I’m guessing they didn’t.

I would love nothing more than to get iced with a militant group.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Disagree Riddle. While it took some time, the pilot group was really galvanizing the last few months...great picket, lots of SOP flying....investors getting p1ssed, another picket and summer around the corner...we had the greatest amount of leverage we’d ever had and pi$$ed it all away...

Question for JetBlue guys
 

Maybe but I also never saw an RSA or VDA not get picked up [emoji2369].

I also flew most of my trips with the top 500 and a lot of top 100 so I wasn’t exactly seeing a lot of 3 engine taxis.

Hopefully next time it won’t take us all 3 years to get there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bunker....leverage? Betting with house money? These are not facts just opinions right? The union meetings (attendance) during negotiations at most carriers would dictate the pulse of a pilot group and their anger. Ours were empty. Thoughts? Comments? I read the contract several times already. I was also at the meetings. Plenty have no idea whats in this contract cause they have yet to read it, let alone realize some big stuff has yet to implement.

Pilots voted this contract in by as much as they did ALPA. Many on here including you and me (maybe not?) could be anyone and do anything as we meld and hide behind anonymity. We can administer venom realizing it was our own tail we struck?

How does this help? Live in anger at every 3 of 4 guys we fly with until the next contract? Sorry not me.

This contract negotiation was rough.

We had several factors working against us, a mediator who wanted to put us on ice, a fractured pilot group and the uphill battle of trying to get our first contract and protections codified.

Could we have gotten more? Probably. How long would we have had to negotiate? I honestly don’t know.

I hope now that we have a base contract, we can go and fix what we missed in contract #1.

I hope we can all move forward and get what we deserve in contract #2. DAL/UAL or bust.

If you don't think we were gaining significant momentum leading up to the AIP being agreed to, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe too much time in MCO schoolhouse? Were you at the picket in Jan in freezing weather? Ask the guys in BOS how angry the ground control supervisor was at JB aircraft as we taxied at safe speeds, and followed SOP. It had taken a while, but there was palpable galvanization of the pilot group, and it was getting better by the day.


You have to remember, the communication that was coming out of the MEC for a long time was that negotiations were progressing nicely. Nothing to see here. Then bam. They weren't. When that communication turned, guys started coming on board more and more. The investors were angry and JB felt the pressure.


Not everybody has the ability to physically attend meetings. That's not an indication of involvement or unity. Hundreds joined P2P. Many would listen to conference calls. Thousands read the MEC emails. Pilots were involved.


You're right. The deal passed overwhelmingly. It always was going to. I always said the 2 slices of swiss cheese was the NC and the MEC. The AIP should never have passed. Once it did, it was a done deal.


My tough talk on this forum is zero indication how I am at work. Love the guys I fly with. I love my job. We get paid a lot of money to do something I love. No complaints. That doesn't mean I won't stop fighting for what I believe we as a pilot group deserves. I'm not angry, just disappointed and hope we've learned from our mistakes and do better next time. We've all earned it.

We will do better. The first contract was going to be a grinder. Now we have experience. I hope the round two starts off with the NEC framing the pilot group as ready to picket on Day 1. I think we will be ready for that too. We’re getting crushed out there. But we’re still not fully CBA implemented, so it’s not a 100% reflection of the gains made in the CBA.

The management is the reason for the adversarial relationship that has developed. When we voted in ALPA Dave B loved to say how everything would change and the pilots would ruin it all. The only thing that changed was management being held accountable for changing the game in their favor. For that reason the get upset at their managerial mistakes and thus blame pilots. They still pull that $hit but we’re getting there in possessing a medium to oppose their nonsense. (Grievance)

They’re very short staffed and the helpers are helping them crutch along. However, our D0 at 60% is a glaring black eye on Operations. The COO is responsible for that. Our management sucks. But this is the low point, or at least that’s what I’m chocking it up to. We can only get better. They can’t keep this rolling IROP going. It’s unsustainable. The cost is going to exceed the benefit and someone will be held accountable.

-Bubs

Are you willing to share with us here on APC the first draft of the LOA you wrote and sent to ALPA? You know, step one improving our contract without waiting on the next negotiation?

Uh what???

What the F are you talking about?

Even if he legitimately is a pilot. He makes himself more doubtful each day.

Seriously. We have to accept that the NMB works for management now.

That does not mean give up, it means change tactics. Basically make the strike obsolete.

Another recycled talking point from 2008 by a newbie.

... and the cycle just keeps repeating itself.

Time ... it just marches on!