Ski dude,
I yank gear for a legacy carrier. And in my free time i like to ski as well. The point i'm trying to make is that there USED to be one job that ALL OF US wanted and that was a job with a "major". It was the best of the best!!! Then the likes of SWA came along and A BUNCH OF US pilots began working for food. So i'm not sure if it was SWA or the PILOTS that ruined this profession. BUT the industry is all "WHO**D" out now(see SWA,JB,AT,FT). I personally don't know about the "bennies" at SWA but i know that they couldn't even come close to those that the "majors" of yesterday had AND THAT MY FRIEND IS A SAD THING FOR ALL OF US!!!! Like i said it's a race to the bottom and the pilots are leading the pack!!!!

Bob,

I am sorry you had a bad travel experience on my airline. I hope you will give us another chance in the future.

If you don't like New York and its people - then stay in Emirates/UAE/Middle East.
Terminal 6 could use some improvements, we are working on Terminal 5.
WiFi intermittent - you fail to mention that every JetBlue lounge has FREE WiFi - call Bill Gates or someone if you had computer issues.
Terminal dirty and too hot - since when is that controlled by an airline?
Third Worlders working the gates - you unamerican, arrogant and ignorant dumbass - prefer your Emirate buddies manning the gates?
15 seats oversold - We at JetBlue NEVER oversell flights.
Shoe horning into a window seat - We have the most legroom of any domestic airline with 36" pitch in the future.
Severe clear and an hour late - ever flown out of JFK before? Every day around rush hour you are in line with 27 other aircraft who all want to leave at the same time. How in the world is that JB's fault?
Miniscule TV - what do you expect a big screen TV in a seat back? Get real you whiner.
Little box lunches with some junk food - lier, we only serve snacks.
Those Yugos are slow - yeah, Mach .78 long range cruise is so much slower than what everybody else does.
Only one beverage choice, overflowing toilets - I don't believe a word you say.
Hard landings, failed tires - send me the date and flight number. I am now curious to find out if there is any truth in your flight from hell.
P.S. Does Emirates have a union? Why not?

Bob,
Don't send this guy the "date and flight number". This guy is so drunk on JB cool-aid he will probably try to have the crew fired???? It's a CRYING shame all of you are not in a union. Get a clue!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Koolaid Girl:

It all happened just as I said. Just because you had a rough ride at the majors and slithered away with your tail between your legs shows both your lack of character and that you should be on your way to managing an Arby's where there is no union to snivel about. Hopefully enough people at the remaining real airlines will be able to spot you after JB lays you off and put your sorry resume in the round file where it belongs when you come crawling for an interview.

Neither me or my company on my behalf will EVER drop another dime on soon to be scabs like you, so don't worry about me.

I believe, like Gman said, you are full of crap. We don't do box lunches. We don't overbook - even if there was a mistake it wouldn't be by 15 people. Sorry the tv you were watching in your leather seat was too small. How many other airlines in this country have tv sets at every seat? Did you ever consider hitting your call button to ask for another beverage. Oh I also like the "shoe horned into your seat" statement. That's a good one.

Yep, that's one horrible product we got going.

Barkeep! Another round of Kool-Aid for Finscab and Gscab. They need it.

Part of why they are so sensitive is that deep down they likely know that within a couple of years they'll either take a 20% pay cut or be out on the street sticking their noses up UPS and Fed Ex's asses begging for a job. Hopefully the rank and file at each will keep them off our lists and they can go to WalMart where they belong. As I said before, everybody has to work, but when they start spouting off how great they are and how they are going to run real airlines like Alaska out of business that's when I raise the BS flag. There is some justice in the world sometimes however. Many moons ago when I was instructing we had a backstabbing gal who earned her ratings, became an instructor and then with minimal time got on at UAL using her Olympic experience as a gimmick to get hired. She wanted to be managment at UAL, but to their credit they'd have none of it. So she quit UAL and went to JB, and last I heard is on their management team.

These guys may yet get what they deserve.

I believe that person would be Bonnie Simi/Warner?

Lee

You guys crack me up. Velocitard, I see you changed your profile and avatar. Eagles suck by the way. Which bankrupt or LCC airline do you guys work for anyway? Those are really the only two choices aren't they (except cargo)? Yep - we're all scabs. You guys who file bankruptcy and have most of your debt wiped out, hide behind Chapter 11 laws, and then emerge as "profitable" are much worse. You are so comfortable with your companies not taking responsibility for their bankruptcies and you gladly bash LCCs for 'lowing the bar'. What a crock.

Since you hate JB so much you'd NEVER try to jump seat on us, even if we were your only ride home, right?

You got that right. Friends don't let friends drive drunk or ride on scaBlue.

Good. Let's keep it that way.

You sure run your mouth a lot for someone who's too chickensh!t to even say where they work.

From what I am hearing Jetblue is doing pretty well ok besides the slight losses, B6 is still getting aircraft and new destinations, and taking over the old TWA terminal at JFK. Jetblue is a great company and provide great service.

Are you kidding? B6 is giving back airplanes, delaying orders and losing money. Great company.

People shouldn't talk out of (feel free to finish the phrase)
 

Jetblue just today announced 10/hr increases in pay for the E190 FO's and 4/hr (I think) for the Capt.'s effective January of 07. This is on top of the bonuses the E190 pilots recieved: not certain what they are for exactly but it was 250/mo AND 5 hours of "premium" pay (1.5 times pay rate) for each month of the last 6 months on 2006 a guy was qualified on the E190.

What airline in the past two decades has ever increased pay without a contract negotiation fight or given a "sorry we screwed up" bonus?

So if you take employment with JB you'll not only have a 2-4 year upgrade (conservatively speaking... at the moment new hires are looking at only 2 years even with the change in aircraft orders) but making 47 or 51 dollars/hr as a 1st year pilot, no probation, 9 hours of paid time off each month allocated to whatever you want it for- vacation, sick time, etc..., the ability to SELL back up to 25 percent of that "PTO bank" every Dec., profit sharing (yes none for those guys this year but lets see what happens next year), no loss of 2% of your pay towards union dues (wether you like them or not), new equipment, definite expansion and oh- btw- there have only been 4 guys fired (out of 1600) and that had nothing to do with the contract... I dunno...I can honestly say that if I didn't have serious seniority already I'd go there or SWA- they seem to be the only two in my book that are doing things right for now.

I've read a buddy's contract and, as a former contract negotiator, I didn't see anything there that would be a negative (unless you were planning ahead of time to screw a company or you thought you deserved 250k/yr for flying 15hrs/mo heh).

By the way, if any of you are truly unhappy there, (although I seriously question if the thread originator is actually a JB employee or just someone pretending) I sincerely hope you leave JB and find yourself someplace that makes you happy and give my JB friends one more seniority slot.

heh- just the thoughts from someone that actually KNOWS people there and has READ the contract.

Puppyz...my buddies at JB say that no one has a hat... in fact one of the guys even has a gotee (which is allowed by company standards). When I was in the service my "cover" (aka hat, flight cap, service cap, etc...) was to be worn only when carrying arms indoors or anytime one was out doors and not "under cover". I feel my company has it backwards when they advocate wearing a hat indoors. One more thing I like about JB personally.

"Cover"...should I say Semper Fi?

Ganbare

How' bout GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY!

Well, I know I've got too much free time as I just reread this entire thread. I've stayed out of it primarily because as a freight dog, it's not really my place to comment on you people-flying guys and your airlines. However, here are a few thoughts:
First and foremost - Velocipede, you are truly one ugly Mo Fo. Both inside and outside. You make me want to puke, with your holier-than-thou attitude. What should pilots do to earn a living? Hang around the street corner and sell crack-cocaine to your daughter? Would that make you happy? What's the problem with guys working for an airline that doesn't meet your expectations? They're not asking you to work there, and they're not giving you sh!t for working at the place that you do. Name me one "major" airline whose pay and benefit package has not been reduced by almost half, in the past few years. Does that make you all scabs, because you're doing the work, but not getting the pay or benefits that you signed on for? How about it? If an airline doesn't have a union, it usually means that it's a fairly new airline, or that for whatever reason, the workers have decided that they don't want or need a union. Why is that sooooo bad? We live in a democracy, where we have the right to choose. Who the fu@k died and made you boss, to tell others how they should conduct their business? If you think that they are leading the way to the bottom, I suggest that you and your airline don't follow them. But don't blame them for your company’s inability to be profitable enough to pay you as they did pre-9/11.

Secondly – For Sideshow Bob: Do you actually mean to somehow compare an international flight in business class to a domestic flight in coach? That would be like trying to compare the forward seat in a row boat with a suite on a luxury ocean liner. And besides, I question your patriotism for even flying Emirates. I know for sure that Mr. Velocipede must hate you for riding on that subsidized Airbus. And as far as New Yorkers smelling badly, come on… Haven’t you done any world travel? Ever been in Milan in the summer? How about Miami? These airports are busy places, where folks have to build up a head of steam to get around. They all stink. And by the way, most New Yorkers don’t like you either! I’ve flown Emirates and there’s nothing like the odor of a Middle Easterner (how’s that for political correctness) in a sheet. Nothing! As for the service, it had better have been good, or heads would roll. Literally! Three days after 9/11, we were stuck in Bangkok and our company decided to deadhead us back to Dubai to pick up a jet and fly it back to Paris. They booked us on Emirates. Great service, however, the place stank, as did the boarding area and the first class lounge. And it should be noted that the terminal in DXB is probably one of the newest and nicest terminals in the world. In fairness, I can say, we didn’t stick to the floor there. So you won that round. JFK is a very heavily traveled OLD airport and it’s run by the Port Authority of New York. Don’t blame a particular airline for its shortcomings. I’ve taken a poll of all New Yorkers and they have decided that they don’t want you in their city, ever again.

I’ve never flown Jet Blue, but would certainly consider doing so if it were convenient for me at the time. In this day and age, there’s very little difference between the Legacy carriers and the not-so Legacy carriers. Be it peanuts on SWA or "trail mix" on NWA. When I wear my passenger hat, I frankly don’t care who flies me from point A to point B, just as long as I get there, along with my luggage, in a timely manner. Having said that, almost all my domestic flying is done in First Class, and it’s just OK. Nothing special at all, but certainly better than coach.

I wish you all well in the New Year and hope you seats are always filled (with paying passengers.):D

Secondly – For Sideshow Bob: Do you actually mean to somehow compare an international flight in business class to a domestic flight in coach? That would be like trying to compare the forward seat in a row boat with a suite on a luxury ocean liner. And besides, I question your patriotism for even flying Emirates. I know for sure that Mr. Velocipede must hate you for riding on that subsidized Airbus. And as far as New Yorkers smelling badly, come on… Haven’t you done any world travel? Ever been in Milan in the summer? How about Miami? These airports are busy places, where folks have to build up a head of steam to get around. They all stink. And by the way, most New Yorkers don’t like you either! I’ve flown Emirates and there’s nothing like the odor of a Middle Easterner (how’s that for political correctness) in a sheet. Nothing! As for the service, it had better have been good, or heads would roll. Literally! Three days after 9/11, we were stuck in Bangkok and our company decided to deadhead us back to Dubai to pick up a jet and fly it back to Paris. They booked us on Emirates. Great service, however, the place stank, as did the boarding area and the first class lounge. And it should be noted that the terminal in DXB is probably one of the newest and nicest terminals in the world. In fairness, I can say, we didn’t stick to the floor there. So you won that round. JFK is a very heavily traveled OLD airport and it’s run by the Port Authority of New York. Don’t blame a particular airline for its shortcomings. I’ve taken a poll of all New Yorkers and they have decided that they don’t want you in their city, ever again.

Since you're such the prolific reader, you noticed the disclaimer that they were clearly different products right? The main point was the vast difference in one day of travel. That being said, you must have noticed how many of these JB types seem to revel in the troubles at the "legacies" and tend to spout off with pride that JB will run them all out of business...not cool. As I also said I don't begrudge anyone for taking any job to feed their family, but if I were in their shoes I wouldn't take such pride in lowering the bar by taking less for about everything and advocating things like over 8 hours a day which degrades safety and further marginalizes what's left of the profession. These guys could well get nickle and dimed to death and then management will spin JB off into the rather full dustbin of aviation, and they will have helped. As for your nationalism rant, funny how you lowerd yourself to ride on Emirates...careful or you make expose a big bag full of your hypocrisy so perhaps you should mind your panel and your business. Or not.

Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between first class international travel and domestic coach travel has not done both. Of course there's going to be a difference. How could one expect any less. I understand your feeling that these JB guys should not be badmouthing other carriers, but maybe if guys didn't badmouth them, they would not feel so inclined to posture the way they do. I think it's great that guys can actually love what it is that they do. I only feel badly for my fellow professional pilots who have given so much to their profession and company, only to be sh!t on by their employers. but again, I don't think that's happened because of Jet Blue or South West. It's happened because like all gigantic ships, large companies tend to not be able to change direction very well. As far as my riding on Emirates was concerned, I really had no other choice, short of declining the travel, and thusly screwing my company out of a first officer, when they needed me to assist the captain in flying the jet back to Paris. Since we were a crew, the captain made the decision. I would have preferred another carrier, but they were the only game in town at the time.

Good thing you qualified that...because you are obviously a man of "few" thoughts.

What can pilots do for a living? Sell cars. Sell real estate. Sell stocks. Drive trucks. Pretty much anything. They are mostly intelligent, trainable individuals who could do pretty much anything they choose to.

Instead, B6 scab wannabes chose to (remember the time frame - 2000) take a job at a non-Union shop that was undercutting Union payscales by up to $80 an hour for a narrowbody Captain seat.

Why? Some were Regional guys who saw the opportunity for a big jet and a quick upgrade. They didn't know any better. The worst were the ALPA furloughees who KNEW they were taking a job undercutting ALPA. They didn't care. Me. ME. ME. Was their mantra. They were too lazy to get up and do something different. They were content to stab Unionized pilots in the back.

Let's examine what has happened since they set the bar for narrowbody Captains at $129, no retirement and no benefits. United and USAir managers saw they could get pilots to fly for chicken feed. So where is their pay/ retirement now? That's right. B6 land.

You can call me all the names you want, but the bottom line is B6 lowered the bar and every Ford and Harrison inspired airline manager followed suit.

Cause and effect. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. It applies to the airline business as well. They are all a bunch of copycats using the same playbook. And if you don't believe that, you are one ignorant ostrich with your head in the sand.

Oh, boys...
 

Boys, boys, boys -- can't you all be NICE to each other, even for a couple of days?:confused: It's CHRISTMAS for G*^#'s sake! Merry Christmas to all of you! :D :p

Nice try
 

Always the peacemaker, aren't you? ;)

You're welcome!!
 

Ah, V, I do try.....Someone's got to reign you guys in once in a while. Might as well be me....:D :p

It's kind of like trying to manage the kids, right Wild? :)

Mine or the ones I teach??

Do you think all problems can be solved with love, sex, respect for others and a positive outlook on life?

Yeah, you're probably right!

Do you have any idea how much professional help you really need?

Very glib. Doesn't answer the basic point that B6 and people who are willing to undercut Union contracts are leading the race to the bottom, if not causing it.

Merry Christmas Everyone. Yes, even to you Velocipede. Today, your my brother, tomorrow we can hate each other again. :mad:

I'm curious what makes you so confident of that. As pilots, we get what we can negotiate for. With no union, you are at the mercy of our employer, who already has you for peanuts. Why should he pay more?

Blind optimism. Actually the things that come to mind are:
1. We are still a very young airline. I have no idea what SWA's payrates were six years in but I doubt they were on top like they are now.
2. There have been a lot of measures taken in 2006 to make the numbers better. These include better route management, ticket pricing, single-engine taxi becoming normal ops, and of course pulling out six seat on the 320s so we only need 3 FAs (I still have mixed feelings on that one).
3. I still hold out a glimmer of hope that if management sees they are about to get a pilot union on the property (not just the b!tching that goes on here and on bluepilots) they may be realize that giving a respectable raise to both seats in both aircraft is a better way to go. I can already hear you guys laughing but everybody's gotta have a dream.

Hypothetical question: Would all the union folks out there still hate us as much if our payrates were the same as yours and we didn't have a union? Just curious. Save the "it doesn't matter cause it will never happen" line.

First off, "Hypothetically" ask yourself why your MGT would pay you those rates (assuming you were lucklily enough to get them)

Traditionally is the UNIONIZED carriers that have raised the bar and set the market rate.Many look at Non union shops as simply riding coat tails.
If you think that your MGT is simply going to offer to give you a substantial pay rate plus other benefits............you will be thinking a long time.

I appreciate your answers to the why question that I asked. As for the union folks hating you, I don't think that is the case across the board. What we hate is that some of you guys seem to take great glee in dancing on our graves as we go through some hard times. The "everyone hates us" attitude that you have smacks of paranoia. Of course, when others are out to get you, paranoia can make sense <G>.

I don't think it has anything at all to do with the $$$ amounts at stake. Through no doing of my own, I now find myself making almost twice as much money as the captains at passenger airlines. I don't hate them over it. Now were they non union and for some reason gloating at me all the time about that fact, or hear them rub my nose in the theory that their business plan was going to trump my company's, I might feel some ill will.

The dollars only amount to a "whose dick is bigger" contest. It's the attitude of superiority from many of your own that rubs people the wrong way. We've see airlines like yours come and go over the years, all with a better plan that was going to destroy the legacy carriers. The legacy airlines are like the Sphynx. They were here before you guys showed up, and they will be here after you are long gone.

Amen, I didn't appreciate the celebrating that was going on when American was giving all of us the walking papers (some of us, like me before I even finished the Medical!).


Likely true.. The LCC thing reminds me a bit of the dot bomb thing.. everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and then everyone jumped off!

I was going to go back and delete the hyptothetical question since it's just going to stir up flame, but since it has already been addressed in replies I won't. I do understand pro-union points of view and recognize the gains unions have made over the years. There are plenty of threads about union issues. I don't want to hijack this one and turn it into another.

just do us and yourself all a favor and when the time come to vote on bringing on ALPA.. VOTE YES!

Naturally I gotta get all the facts first. No promises.

Fins,

If (IF!) B6 had the industry leading contract for both pay and benefits, then you would be welcome on my jumpseat. You would be "jacking the house" in the finest Union tradition.

Reality check...you accepted a job at a non-union carrier that undercut my contract in numerous ways. Pound sand.

I think the reality is that your contract is only as good as your negotiation skills and position. If someone else's contract is a factor in your negotiations, it is only so because your position is too weak to provide a counter-argument.