Okay everyone. For clarity this has been in our PEA's since the 2010 PEA and they have never and will never enforce it. If you don't want to be here JB will wish you luck and send you on your way.

Been here 7 years. Who I'm singling out are the guys who are using this place as a stepping stone to further there careers. If they want to do that that's fine but you "pay to play" I came here and believed the juice and it took me about 6 mos to see through the lies. I did, however and still do, believe that every pilot needs a union to protect them PERIOD!! Like it or not this is my airline and I want what's best for it and us and job hoppers are not it.

Yeah and they shouldn't bother coming. If they don't want to make JB a career then go somewhere else. Every time we hire someone and they leave that's training costs that come out of my pocket via profit sharing and stock price. Why would we want that? Good pilot or not I'd rather fly with someone who wants to make this a better place and not someone who could care less because they are trying to go somewhere else. If you want to go somewhere that's fine but at least you should work off your training costs

I'm a newbie so fresh out of the womb I'm still dripping blue juice wherever I walk, but I've got an issue with this kind of thinking.

First, few people are blessed to know exactly what they want to do and with whom they want to do it with right out of the gate. Personally I'm very happy here, but again I'm pretty wet behind the ears. I don't plan to leave, but if I got offered a job tomorrow that combined body-doubling for Brad Pitt (given that they'd have to make me uglier and keep me from working out so much) during the week and flying P-51s on the weekend for $2.5M/yr, I'd have a hard time turning it down.

Second, I'm willing to wager there are pilots, 100% dead-set on making JetBlue a career, who aren't making this airline a better place. On the flip side, I'll make a bet there are a few "stepping stone" pilots who will do quite a bit for the company in the 6 to 9 months they're here.

Thirdly, the company won't lose much money in training costs. Maybe with a pilot who hangs out less than 2 years (thus the clause). Replacing a 3yr pilot costs them maybe $40-50K. They'll save that over 2 years, maybe over 1, in pay. Will they lose experience? Yes, but that doesn't cost them anything on the books. Besides, you've already said you'd rather fly with a company pilot than a good one. Lots of people agree with you.

Finally, watch what you wish for when you say "pay to play." It wouldn't be the first company to get barely-qual'd pilots to pay for their SIC time...

Your comparing apple to oranges. This whole thing is about guys coming here then leaving quickly either back to there original employer or to one of the other majors. Not about flying a mustang on the weekend.

Listen I'm not making excuses for the guys here that are in it for the long haul that are hurting the company right now but they are ****ed. I understand that, but please tell me what a guy who has been here 6 mos can do other than show up and fly? We aren't working for an ad firm or an architectural firm that promotes creative thinking. You have a singular job that involves flying an airplane from point to point safely while keeping the passengers as comfortable as possible. Nothing more

As far as the training costs? Isn't the what I said, if you come here then leave within the two years you should pay restitution because it will cost the company money?

These stepping stone pilots I'm talking about are the ones who willingly take a job here knowing they want to go somewhere else. They are lying in the interview at the least.

I never said I'd rather fly with a company guy. Those guys are on the far end of the spectrum and will never pull there head of of the sand. I also dont want to fly with the all the time bashing the company guy either. They make me so friggin tired by the end of a 4 day. I like flying with anyone who likes Beer!!!!

I hope we don't make people pay to come here. That would be the lowest of the lowes.

Well put. The middle of the road guys are usually amicable and fun to fly with. I have found that the Pro CBA / pro company guys/girls are the most interesting to have conversation with. The lets burn this place down or the dripping blue juicers are the most annoying to fly with. Just my opinion, no facts at all in this/my post. As for a six month pilot showing up is all that can be expected of you nothing more / nothing less.

Jetblue just put out a 56 page document explaining why it can't pay pilots industry standard anything.

http://www.anony.ws/i/2013/11/14/ynGLX.jpg

Stock price is the justification. Because pilots, not management, have everything to do with this.



Hunter Keay, Wolfe Research

Fourth consecutive EPS miss to consensus with EPS ex-items of $0.21, below the consensus estimate of $0.22 and our estimate of $0.23. We believe JBLU is facing material cost headwinds next year from new labor deals, and another year of likely high-single digit capacity growth should produce the same thing it’s produced since 2010: capital destruction.

Fleet restructuring not exciting to us. JBLU bought 35 more A320 family aircraft and deferred 24 E-190s as part of a fleet restructuring. No orders were cancelled, and near-term capex is likely to fall by just ~$70M/year (~10%). Today’s announcement of adding ~$1.8B to an already bloated order book despite carrying an after-tax ROIC that’s ~300bp below capital costs is indicative of a growth-first, returns-second strategy.

ROIC goal doesn’t appear to be driving the strategy. Talking about ROIC and taking clear actions to drive ROIC is quite different, and based on commentary from the call it appears that JBLU will fall short of its stated 100bp ROIC improvement goal for 2013. JBLU has the highest adjusted net debt to EBITDAR in our airline coverage at 4.0x, and ~135 committed aircraft deliveries over the next decade on a fleet of 189 means material looming debt with still-high capex. JBLU called its commitment to expanding ROIC by 100bp “non-negotiable” earlier this year, yet falling short of that goal oddly translates to buying more aircraft?

Rich valuation. JBLU’s multiple contracted steadily over the last ten years as growth has decelerated and debt levels accelerated, but it is still well above peers. We fail to understand why a company with poor returns, an aversion to commercially proven revenue initiatives (first bag fees), and a commitment to metrics we find not valuable (Net Promoter Score) garners the multiple it does. We downgrade to Underperform and use a P/E multiple of 9x our 2015 EPS estimate to derive a target price of $6.

You are having NPS shoved down your throat as some amazing metric for determining customer loyalty while Wall Street is laughing.
In reality, NPS is tied directly to management bonus structure.

Because I'm a nerd but an outsider hoping to be in, I actually listened to the 3rd quarter call and this Hunter guy drove some tough questions their way.

No your not. You are smart.

Since this is actually a hiring thread ill say this.

Anyone applying for a new job at any airline should listen to the quarterly conference calls and investor day updates. I think it helped me during my interview when somehow the topic came up and I mentioned I had listened to them and spoke intelligently about what was in the recent calls.

Right on! Thanks!