JetBlue Cabin cleaning
 

In an attempt to move the debate to where it belongs... Post your pros/cons about cleaning the jet you just flew in uniform here. I don't believe any other Legacy or LCC has such a thread... Let's get the Latest and Greatest back on track.

I have no issue with cabin cleaning at all. I generally don't do it in front of the customers. We really don't have to do it all the time and it isn't a lot of work. It helps build respect from the FAs.

Threads like this make me realize that I don't miss flying in the US at all....!

Cleaning the airplane....? Really?

Haven't cleaned in about 5 years.

I don't clean.

This is how you build respect as a CA/FO of the aircraft? No disrespect, but if a FA needs to see you clean seatback pockets to "earn their respect," something is amiss

I understand the concept of us all being on 1 team. The flight attendants do have a tough job and many times don't get a chance to eat or get coffee during turns which is why I offer to assist "our team" by offering to get them food or coffee during turns.

That being said , I do not cross seat belts or clean up trash. For those who said it earlier, no it's not hard and only does take a few minutes , I understand that. But how much further would you like to lower the industry bar which has already been lowered so much since its inception .

All you are doing is hurting what once was considered a very professional career . If JetBlue needs help cleaning they will need to find a solution to the problem such as hiring more cleaners or adding times for turns so FA's can do it .

Please stop , the only reason JetBlue wants this is cause WE AS PILOTS ALLOW IT ..!!!!! Keep the professional industry what it once was .

And if you must must must clean the plane , God do not do it in front of our customers !

When a doctor gets done with surgery do you see him in his knees cleaning the blood off the floor ? No l,that would make him appear as a low end or less of a professional . I bet people would look down on this .

Not saying we are doctors but the concept still holds the same. You want respect from the FA be a professional and help in other ways .

rant on

If you really want their respect, tell them to sit, make them a cup o tea/coffee and call the cleaner to clean the a/c.


I'd say make as s-bucks run for them, but they haven't figured out yet coffee comes in 2 flavors. Regular and decaf....

Our customers have said in surveys that they do not want to see pilots cleaning. If that's not enough to stop you then nothing will. They're opinion of you is as important if not more important than your flight attendant's. After all they are the reason we get paid.

Line in the sand?
 

This is how I feel. I don't have to do the seats but I do as part of a team. When your running late and it gives the FA's a chance to check their phones respond to loved ones to get back on track. I can't find anywhere in their FAM's where it says they have to get me a beverage? I have seen many that say they never do seats come out of the wood work to help if it's go home day and they are trying to make a commute home? Now they have a huge dilemma.......again it requires you to think for yourself (would you miss your commute by not helping) or hide in selfish hypocrisy?.....

Requirement for cleaning the cabin during turns is not contained within the duties and responsibilities, of Capt./FO, or even F/A for that matter as outlined in the FOM of any carrier I've worked for. Never been discussed during any interview or basic indoc.

BTW... Isn't JB ALPA now? Is or will reference to cabin cleaning part of the contract? Better yet... Will JB expect crews to clean the jet after the last flight of the day?

Perhaps JB should consider ceasing operations if the cost of hiring qualified cleaning personnel to clean their jets.

Hearing the "talk" of Aewanabe, makes me want to clean with the hope I'm flying with aewanabe just so I could upset him even more and the hopes he would "write me up" or call pro standards on me. I'm sorry this is hilarious.

I feel the same way.

aewanabe please give more clues about yourself so I can add you to my bid prefer list so I can be your FO and clean every flight with you. Pleeeeease... So you are a 3 year capt on the bus. Sounds like you still have that angry pilot syndrome from the regionals.

And since your profile says CR7 and you've been here 4 months, do you therefore have that "I'm just happy to be here 'cuz it's better than Skywest mentality?". 8.5 years here, I'm far past being an angry regional pilot.

I backed off a bit on the other thread, and haven't tried very hard to hide my identity. You can research my posts or PM me if you'd like to know more.

The ghosts of Pan Am, TWA, United, Delta, Eastern (and other) pilots that built this profession and tried to elevate it from the ranks of bus driver are turning in their graves.

That is it. No more arguments should be required. Please respect what our customers want. It is not that hard. We should not even have a thread like this.

I am on reserve, so anyway usually when I get a call there is never time to do anything more than the basic duties. If there is enough time and they were friendly, I buy the FAs coffee when I get mine. I never wait nor ask for the trash bag and waters, always get them myself.
When I non-rev I do my row as requested on our pass rider guide.

Now to spin the argument, I saw multiple times FAs doing nothing while the non revs were scrambling to cross and clean, so much for team work.

It is a nice gesture. It certainly should not be in JB's hiring requirements. It is very telling of the culture management is attempting to facilitate. If somebody wants to help out, that is great. A pilots job is flying the plane safely and being a good representation of company values. How does cleaning the plane as a pilot help(not trained in cleaning)? Do they give you rubber gloves and Clorox? Do you want to get yourself sick cleaning that filth?

GuardBummer, I've flown with tons of Pease guys, maybe even you (now you know my base). In the other thread, which admittedly got a bit heated, I referenced the FOM and FCOM when another poster called me out, with the caveat that I don't really want to go that route. Section 1 of the FOM has some pretty good info about turn time guidelines, and the respective duties of each pilot. If I respectfully explained my opinion on cleaning to you, asked you to defer when our customers and union have done the same, then pointed out more important priorities in our duties, you'd go back to cleaning to prove a point? I'd win that battle, but it's sad it even needs to be fought.

I thought ghosts were free to move around, I doubt they hang out in their own graves. :eek:

This thread is a disgrace on our company.
Customers don't want to see us cleaning, end of it.
Next.

Im a tanker guy, but not Pease based, and I'm an E190 guy. I do not think we have flown together, because I have never been addressed regarding my willingness to help out in the back.

I have no problem with anyone who doesnt want to cross belts and clean up trash from seat backs. What I do have a problem with is a Captain going to pro standards on a FO because he decides to assist the FAs. Sure, you do this under the guise of missing Notams, etc., which is comical. Try this... How about holding all to the same standards based on their performance instead of trying to get someone talked to by pro standards because you dont like what they do during a turn.

Yes, I would go back to cleaning, as long as I had the time to complete a walk around or my preflight duties. I would do so only out of sight of the customers, which is my standard practice. Of all the battles one could pick, I think you could probably make a bigger impact with a more appropriate battle.

It is not in the hiring requirements and it is not even required as working crew or DHing....read that again.

Now if you are a JetBlue non rev you are asked to help out. That is in our pass riding guide.

My apologies for assuming you were a Pease guy.

I don't think we're going to change each other's minds, but my last volley: I was an E190 CA until last year, so we may have crossed paths. If you re-read the exchange in the other thread, I stated I would ask (and respectfully point out the reasons why) that you defer cleaning between legs. That conversation would happen prior to getting Pro Stans involved. Some hypotheticals that have actually happened in my career here: you cleaned, while I checked the release, setup the cockpit and checked with the gate agent about jumpseaters. Now by the time you get to the walk around and notice the shattered taxi light lens or the leaking hydraulic line on the main gear brake assembly we're 10 minutes prior to departure with the customers mostly reboarded. Or I grabbed the walkaround while you cleaned, and by the time I returned to the cockpit we've begun re-boarding and you haven't reviewed the release yet and noticed we lack a required 2nd alternate. Or the LG No Dispatch EICAS that popped up and blended in with the 5 other messages that normally sit there with the door open and engines shut down.... Now I'm calling dispatch and getting the fueler back 10 minutes prior to departure, or trying to get MX control to get the contract guy out to the outstation on a Sunday afternoon. Or doing a full power-down and power-up with customers sitting on a dark, hot jet when it could have been done earlier. I can go on... Be honest with yourself: if you're the FO in this case, did you legitimately complete your preflight duties to the best of your abilities IAW the FOM time-management turn guideline? And do you now still think cleaning the cabin was the best use of your time as a professional pilot?

The ensuing maintenance or fueling delays could have been likely avoided, or incurred without customers on the jet, had you attended to your pilot duties first vs your perception of teamwork. If after I ask you to attend to those duties first and can reference my authority to do so, you still want to defy me to prove a point? Pro stans it is.

Finally, your LEC, MEC, and customers have made clear multiple times their stance on this issue. Regardless of how you think I present my position, why are you determined to buck all that data as well?

If the airline pilots in the golden age of flying are rolling in their graves, then our bean counters are jumping for joy at some people's willingness to help do something that they arent getting paid for.

If we have time, we might as well go outside and help load bags.
If we have time, we might as well tag gate check bags.
If we have time, we might as well go hookup the fuel truck.
If we have time we might as well go help dump the lav.
If we have time, we might as well hookup our own ground power.
If we have time, we might as well help load the catering.
If we have time, we might as well help scan tickets during boarding.
It's all in the name of teamwork, right?

None of those are our job, nor is cleaning the cabin.

Also, if you were to seriously hurt yourself while cleaning (sharp object in seatback pocket or accidental face first fall, lets say) and needed to file for disability, workman's comp or filed a lawsuit, because of that, you better believe the company will be the first to argue that cleaning isn't in your job description.

I don't help clean, and I'm not ashamed to say it. I also have no problem NOT cleaning while the Captain cleans.

It actually does. In the section titled "crew member expectations" it says "while working or traveling" you are expected to clean. I realize it doesn't say MUST CLEAN, but whatever.

Our pilots or FAs don't clean the cabin. We have hired cleaners that board at the end of each flight and get it all sparkly clean! The company already has you at a bargain basement rate....why add insult to injury and clean the cabin when hired cabin cleaners should be doing it.....

I know you think I have a problem with you not cleaning or whatever. I don't really care. When I'm operating I'd say I clean about 10% of the time due to not having enough time. If the FAs seem to expect it, I never clean. I do it only when I have time, and only as a courtesy, just like I did at my last carrier.

What I have a problem with is your attitude.

I'd like you to tell me the exact page it says "working crewmembers" in our FOM. It certainly is not in the pass riding guide.

FOM page 10-50.


Aircraft Cleaning. First Officers are not expected to assist in light cleaning of aircraft as a core function of their duties.


Nuff said.

It says exactly that for every listed job position described in the FOM EXCEPT pilots.

Good gravy, you quoted an entire message where I pointed out real pitfalls that have happened in the operation, and your takeaway was my attitude?

My very first response in the other thread ended with the words "I'd courteously ask you to desist". At which point you and a couple others went with "you're not the boss of me, your FO will go to HR for harassment...". In what screwed-up world of major airline pilots is a Captain requesting the FO to perform his or her duties IAW the FOM, then going to Pro Stans AFTER that is refused, harassment? (Other than JetBlue that is...)

I also have yet to see you address any of the multiple posters, myself included, reminding you that your passengers as well as your Union have made their positions quite clear. Why is your personal desire to play janitor more important than those positions?

If after all that my attitude is your issue, I'm cool with that. It's unfortunate, but whatever. We're talking past each other on this issue, and I don't see it changing.

You're trying to say guys that clean are doing so while neglecting their duties as a First Officer. That's simply not the case and you threatening to go to Pro Stans is a ridiculous argument. You're making those of us making legitimate arguments look bad.

And if you look around on the internal website, you will find a Podcast that has the lead of inflight answer a question from an FA about how to get a pilot to help clean because they never do... A: give them a set of gloves.

The doctor does not scrub the floors after surgery.

Genuinely sorry you feel that way. I have yet to see this guy respond to any of us pointing out that the passengers and union don't want to see it.

Those situations I mentioned are all real-life examples of things I've had happen in the operation (all on the 190). In every case, at some point after the situation was resolved I've taken a quiet moment (cruise, waiting on the contract guy to show up, etc) to ask the other guy "hey, next time let's stay on task with our attention to this stuff rather than pitching in back there, huh?" (MEL review, catching the dispatch errors, getting the walkaround done sooner than 10 minutes prior to departure, etc). I have yet to have any response other than usually some sheepish, "you bet, sorry, good point, D'oh"....

If on the contrary one of these internet hotheads wants to run the "don't tell me what to do" table, you bet Pro Stans would be the next step. I'm honestly curious, why do you view that as a threat and what step would you take instead?

You could "tell me" all you want, if I ever fly with you, I will still happily help cross a few rows of seat belts, and still have time to do the walkaround and come back and do some DIAFRIPS all while being ready to go to add the bag and pax counts. It's really not that hard to show that you want to help and not waste time or delay your duties as a FO. Call pro standards till you are blue in the face. Yes I'm happy to be here too. If you want to PM me too, go right ahead, not going to change my attitude to help out if time allows.

There you go.
I am just not a fan of people kind of attacking my company without knowing what they are talking about.

Whoever started this thread is a f$cking idiot.

I don't clean neither should any other pilot.

If you are a sky janitor go ahead and clean but get your cr@p out of the flight deck before you do.

If you fly with me and you feel the need to dumpster dive you are on your own and I am off to the hotel without you.

This thread needs to die. NOW!

F'ing unbelievable!!

Nuff said.

Some airlines actually hire cleaners even at the outstations.
Our FAs aren't even required to clean during a turn.

Good for your FAs


We do have cleaners. This is why this thread ticks me off. Now we have a bunch of people who don't work here and have no idea what the procedures are or what our union says give us their opinion and acting all holier-than-thou.
But It looks like from your other posts that you are a Delta pilot so I guess that comes natural for you :)