JetBlue Gateway Select
 

My application has been pulled and I've been invited to pay the $200 assessment fee for the JetBlue Gateway Select Program. According to the website it currently cost about $125,000 (out of pocket) to attend their flight school, earn your ratings, graduate from the program, etc. Eventually after they program they will hire you on at JetBlue. I am seeking worthy advice from any professional pilots (or anyone really with knowledge or experience pertaining to this topic), is this a reasonable price for their flight training and becoming an airline pilot or am I better off going about becoming a pilot some other way? In your opinion, do you think this is really worth it? :confused:

Here is a link with some info on the program - Gateway Select ? JetBlue Pilot Gateway Programs

Well...I received all of my ratings for 19k back in 1992 and I'm making 6 figures now living debt free. So yes there are other ways. :)


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Seems a little steep for training but obviously the tricky calculation is how the additional costs pays off in your salary later on.

Rough training math:

0-MEI: $65-70k
ATP: $5k
Type: $25k

Totaling around $100,000.

It is no longer the 90s. That's great for you but no one needs to hear about how cheap your training was 25 years ago

Go forward with caution...did you read the entire expanded program?

"At the conclusion of instructor training, and provided you continue to meet the minimum qualifications, you will have earned your initial instructor qualifications and will begin work as a salaried employee of CAE. You will enjoy your time as a CAE Flight Instructor for 24 months, or until you accumulate 1,500-hours, whichever is longer. "

You are looking at at about three years before you are able to possibly maybe able become a FO.

I would not fork over 125K banking on maybe having a job 3 years from now. I promise you, there is writing in their contract that guarantees you squat if "fill in the blank" happens, occurs, or you fail to meet certain criteria.

There are quite a few flight schools out there today who are willing to help you get your CFI much cheaper than $125,000. Some flight schools.
Just my two cents....

do you know of anyone who has taken the assessment?

No it's not a "reasonable" price. Don't pay an airline to possibly offer you a job (especially not $125 grand). Oh... but it's in 15 monthly installments :rolleyes:... which works out to about $8300 per month. Do you have that kind of cash kicking around? You won't even gross that until maybe year 4 if you actually get the job. I'm sure they'll find someone to give you a loan - read the fine print - and thanks to that pesky interest thing that goes along with a loan, you're not talking $125,000 any more.

What happens if JB declares bankruptcy before you're actually hired?
What if they completely go under?
What if they get bought or merge with another airline?
What if the economy tanks and they stop hiring - are you going to keep training (and paying them)?

There's no guarantees in this business and you're really putting all your eggs in one basket. You need ratings and real experience that you can take to any employer looking for pilots and be competitive. There's no way to end-run that and somehow skip to the front of the line with a bunch of money. Hitching your horse to a single cart full of blue Kool-Aid is a really bad idea, IMO.

Not only no, H*!! no. There is zero guarantee of a job: what if they are bought, what if they merge, what if they just decide to do away with the program, what if they go bankrupt, etc. This program is a farce from day one. If they really want you, let them pay.

^^ all great warnings here ^^ No company is mandated to hire anyone- you may be given an interview, but thats a big price and time commitment for an afternoon meeting.

This sounds horrifyingly similar to the CAPT program. Get everything in writing! Especially the part about getting hired. Have a lawyer look it over before you sign anything! Get your questions answered by your lawyer. Good luck!

Way too much for flight training. Join a flying club get your commercial multi for under 50k. Fly freight for a year or two make around 35k per year. Go to a regional who will pay for your ATP and then evaluate your options. The less weights you tie around yourself the less stress and heart ache you will have. Keep doors open and your head on a swivel. This industry changes rapidly.

And if you want a degree do it online when you are flying freight and at a regional. Crush your training as fast as possible.

Jet Blue 2017
 

Just wondering how the Gateway Select program is going for you. Any information would be helpful and thank you in advance.

It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I feel like all I do is spend money on top of the initial payment. I never see my family but I put a second mortgage on the house to pay for it so I'm stuck now.

Trainees One Step Closer
 

https://www.cae.com/news-events/pres...mercial-pilots

Inaugural JetBlue ‘Gateway Select’ Pilot Trainees One Step Closer to Becoming Commercial Pilots

• Candidates Will Now Work as Flight Instructors at CAE Phoenix to Gain the Required Hours for their Airline Transport Pilot Certificate
• As the First Class Successfully Completes Training, New Applicants Can Apply Now at http://pilots.jetblue.com/gateway-select

New York (April 23, 3018)

JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced the first graduation of candidates from the training portion of its innovative pilot recruiting pathway - Gateway Select, the airline’s competency-based training program for aspiring pilots. The first group of pilots has completed their primary classroom, technical and flight training and will now continue on a path to receiving their Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate by earning their FAA-mandated 1,500 hours of flying time as flight instructors. After instructing for two years, they will begin flying as first officers at JetBlue, as early as 2020.
“Following a rigorous selection process and extensive training, we’re proud to see the first cohort complete the training portion of our Gateway Select program,” said Warren Christie, senior vice president of safety, security and air operations, JetBlue. “This milestone with the first class further proves our competency-based pathway works and provides a new path of entry for those who never saw commercial aviation as a career option.”
JetBlue partners with CAE (NYSE:CAE; TSX:CAE) to deliver Gateway Select’s training curriculum. This milestone is the first from this innovative program which trains high-quality pilots based on aptitude. The program is being completed in cohort classes. There are currently four classes in various stages of the program ranging from private pilot training through positions as Flight Instructors.
Cohort one started in August 2016 and has completed the training curriculum portion of the program. This first class went through airline and skills-based training at JetBlue’s state-of-the art training campus – JetBlue University in Orlando, and gained flying experience at CAE Phoenix, CAE’s aviation academy in Mesa, AZ. As flight instructors, the candidates will pass the baton providing flight instruction to Cohort three, currently in the finishing stages of their classroom learning.
“Gateway Select was designed to help make pilot careers more accessible to a broader range of candidates,” Christie said. “We remain committed to recruiting a diverse talent pipeline with our seven Gateway Programs by continuing to partner with colleges, technical schools and other organizations that also seek to make the commercial pilot ranks more accessible.”
“CAE is proud to be the training partner of choice of this historic cadet creation program,” said Nick Leontidis, CAE’s Group president, Civil Aviation Training Solutions. “It is part of our mission to grow and train tomorrow’s pilots to the highest standards. Congratulations to the first cohort of JetBlue’s Gateway Select future pilots.”
As JetBlue commemorates this milestone, the airline is currently accepting applications for the next round of candidates slated to start training as early as fall of 2018. Applications and more information on the Gateway Select program will be available at http://pilots.jetblue.com/gateway-select.

Gateway Select Pilot Training Program - The Gateway Select program provides participants with the opportunity to become JetBlue pilots after completing a rigorous multi-year training program which encompasses classroom learning, extensive real-world flying experience and instruction in full-flight simulators. Gateway Select candidates go through a series of assessments based on the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) pilot competencies and JetBlue’s own selection criteria.
JetBlue partners with CAE, leveraging CAE’s experience in delivering competency-based training programs to airlines throughout the world, to deliver Gateway Select’s training curriculum. Gateway Select takes the best from training programs used by the U.S. military and international airlines and applies the safety standards and federal requirements for current pilots. The Pilot trainees came from a diverse set of backgrounds and professional experiences, including a heavy machine operator, a supermarket sales clerk and an accountant.

How It Works
Pilot trainees complete a series of training phases with guidance and mentorship from JetBlue to build the skills and experience required of a pilot for a major airline. The curriculum is also aligned with JetBlue’s unique customer-focused culture.

• Trainees attend JetBlue University in Orlando for two weeks to learn the fundamentals of aviation and become acquainted with the company.
• Trainees continue to CAE Phoenix, CAE’s aviation academy in Mesa, AZ for 30 weeks to develop core flying skills. Upon completion, candidates receive their private pilot’s license.
• Trainees then return to JetBlue University for training on highly complex transport category aircraft, concluding with a JetBlue Line Operational Evaluation (LOE) and the completion of the Airline Transport Pilot – Certification Training Program (ATP-CTP). Training includes the safe and efficient operation of the Embraer 190 or the Airbus 320
• Next, trainees return to CAE Phoenix for 12 weeks of additional FAA licensing requirements to receive their Commercial single & multi-engine instrument ratings. Trainees will then attend an instructor course to achieve their CFI (certified flight instructor) and CFII (Certified Flight Instructor – Instrument) qualifications and ratings. Upon completion, trainees then begin working as entry-level salaried instructors for CAE’s aviation academy while accumulating flight hours to achieve the FAA’s 1,500 flight-hour requirement.
• Upon meeting the FAA and Gateway Select requirements, pilots become new hires at JetBlue, where they complete the same orientation and six-week instruction that all first officers complete.

JetBlue hires hundreds of new pilots every year, recruiting through its seven JetBlue Pilot Gateway programs®. These pilot pathways include University Gateway, Transition Gateway, and qualified first officer recruiting. Information about all of JetBlue’s pilot recruitment pathways, including Gateway Select, can be found at http://pilots.jetblue.com.

So I guess ALL captains have now been promoted to CKA? :rolleyes:

No more than any CA at any regional. Low time FOs is nothing new.

I keep forgetting that we're a regional.:rolleyes:

This! Holy biscuits!

Most carriers are developing some sort of ab-initio program the main difference is the low cost mentality compared to a major airlines mentality. If you ever have the misfortune of sitting in a Jetblue meeting you’ll quickly realize the primary goal is how inexpensive can the development be. The following thought is how can the developement be spun to make it look good. The airline idea of a “qualified” applicant is someone who can pay the fee. DUI, dishonorable discharge, all are welcome.

I know I’m taking a huge risk of stirring up a hornets nest by resurrecting this thread but here goes. My son was just offered a June class date for the Gateway Select program. As a proud father (and SWA captain) I’m a little nervous about how he’ll be received by the pilot group having ‘jumped’ directly to the right seat if/when he completes this program. I am hesitant but it is his choice. Without starting a new thread on JB pilot’s feeling with the recent AIP I have to say I’m less hesitant. I’ve really enjoyed talking to all the JB pilots that have ridden on my jumpseat and believe y’all have a great product but Papa needs to hear the honest truth. Thanks in advance.

As a SWA captain (maybe), you should know well how he'll be received.

I’ve read it but it’s a little dated. Wasn’t sure if feelings have changed. Honestly, there are pilots here at SWA that are asking why we aren’t offering the same type of program as the ‘talent’ pool diminishes. I’m not here to offend. Just hoping he’s making a good decision...

I don't think this program will give you a more talented pool to choose from. It will actually do the opposite, IMHO. You have many qualified pilots out there being passed up, and to give someone with grossly less experience is just wrong. You have to do what you feel best for yourself, and live with whatever criticism comes with it. I'm sure many here still feel unfavorably about the program.

Thanks for the reply. He’s a hard working ‘kid’ with thick skin and all I can do is support his decision. I wish y’all the best on your upcoming vote!

Please. Airline hiring has never been solely or even remotely close to picking only the most experienced candidates.

I think it's fair to criticize the program, but if your son is a good pilot ultimately nobody will care. If he's so-so, they'll blame him and the airline for putting him there.

I would NEVER do this program right now...no way!

Pretty soon AA/DAL/UAL, etc. will be forced to HIRE off the street, pay for ALL your training, and pay you to be trained! Just like the military...

If you don't want to wait that long, then get your training somewhere else, it will cost about half as much. AA has a program where they will help you with some of the costs, then take you into Envoy/PSA/Piedmont where they have direct flow thru to AA.

UAL has a program where they and Lufthansa hire you, after your CFI, to train LH cadets in AZ, until you reach your ATP mins, then you go direct to UAL, bypassing the regionals.

Mountain Air Cargo has a program where you will interview at FedEx BEFORE any other applicant.

There are a lot of -135 and corporate departments hurting bad...all you need is your Commercial to start there, and then move up to the regionals/majors.

The JetBlue program's problem is it's VERY expensive, and they want you to spend YOUR money.

Good luck, and Namaste...

Wow, really?!?! Thanks for that obvious bit of info. You seemed to have missed the point completely. In case you are unaware, there is more to being a pilot than just having good flying skills. Like I said, the more qualified have more experience.

My two cents:
I don’t respect one piece of this program nor do I respect anyone who is a product of it. When they are sharing a flight deck I will not consider them a peer and will view them as a cadet/ab initio/“b scale” pilot. I am not interested in their stories about how they bought a job.

With that being said- I don’t fault them in the least for capitalizing on an opportunity.

I don't want to babysit anyone in the cockpit and I doubt most captains do either. If I have to babysit someone the whole time it'll either be a call to prostans or calling off the trip.

Pilots will always complain about how a company hires new pilots.

You as a pilot can impress upon him the importance of the union etc. the training pipeline will ensure he meets a minimum standard. Airline training isn’t impossible for most folks. It’s not always easy, but isn’t impossible...

I’m going to counter this advice... as long as cost isn’t an option it’s worth taking the known option (acceptance to the program), vs passing up an opportunity to wait around for something that might happen (AA moves only slightly quicker than the Govt on stuff).

Going the AA pipeline to a WO to flow through to AA and your son is looking at 8-12 years before he’s a NH FO at Mainline depending on which AA regional he goes to. In that time there’s a decent chance he’ll be a Captain at JetBlue and/or have gone some place else by then.

Take what you/he know. JB life is definitely better than life at a regional according to everyone I’ve ever met whose done both...

Buy an IFR C152, find an instructor and bust through most all your training minus the limited time you would have to spend in a complex for your commercial. Then sell the plane at a huge bargain if you want to get rid of the plane quick (keeping in mind how much you might have spent on maintenance along the way) and you will make out spending less than half what this or any other program like it costs.

8gph @ $6.50 for 300hrs is $15,900 spent on fuel

200 hours with a freelance instructor at $40/hr is $8000
(My guess is that 200 hours should cover flight and ground school if you study hard at home)

Now freelance in your plane..... or just sell it $10,000 marked down from what you got it at and get a job cfi’ing to build the rest of your time while gaining some valuable experience.

Congratulations you just spent about 50k for all your training when you add in ramp fees, complex aircraft time, 100hr inspections, and insurance. It would probably cost less honestly.

Good luck!!

He will not be a welcome addition in my flight deck. His opinions will mean little as he lacks the experience gained by years of flying and fighting for the major airline job. Your son is picking the easy way, and that wont make it an enjoyable career

Let me ask you this... how would he be received on your flight deck? Ask your captain friends and F/O's how they would receive him.

He will be looked down upon and may feel he has to prove himself, which could be dangerous.

Ask your friends at United how the quota hires were accepted. That being said, if I were a low-time quota type at United back in the day i would have jumped at the chance. I know plenty of these types who jumped the line and it really irks me, especially considering that I lost my job there and they didn't.

If he can live with the consequences of jumping the line, then go for it. Truth is that he will have much more experience than any of the 500 hour wonder boys and girls who were hired at United from about '89-'96.

In my cockpit respect is earned, not granted due to a resume. I've flown with crappy military, former 121, etc... I've also flown with some pretty good Cape Air pilots (and crappy ones too).

If he can be humble and accept criticism, go for it.

GP

CRM.........

I would ask....what’s the hurry? Tell him to get a degree (non aviation....online if necessary) while flight training. Be VERY picky about which regional he ALLOWS to hire him, and upgrade there. (It will be fast) he can join you at SWA or go to the big 3when hiring gets really robust. Working for a goal is valuable. Work shouldn’t be a 4 letter word.

This program is too much money with too many unknowns. Including interest the real cost is north of 250,000. He wouldn’t pay it off for decades. It capitalizes on the millennial stereotype of I WANT IT NOW. I think he will be treated as such by some pilots. It is a program founded in case the nuclear option is the only option left. (Ie no more fools applying at jetblue)

I have a friend at SWA who is mentoring his nephew. I am AMAZED at his progress. He got his private a couple years ago and he just upgraded at a regional. I’ve been doing this for 18 years (lost decade in left seat of an RJ) and he seems awefully close behind me (and will probably get hired at SWA Or Delta in the next year or so. I don’t think 4 years is too slow.

Does he think that?

Another thing to consider... what happens if we get bought out or merged? What assurances does be have that his $125k will get him a job at the new company?

GP

I have a friend who lost 50,000+ to this company. So, it has happened more than once.

Airline Training Academy Closes It's Doors. - Airliners.net

I wanted to ask what everyone’s opinion on the other gateways in context of the OP question? I don’t know much about them other than from the gateway website but it looks like the University Gateway is a legit path that many have taken outside of the gateway program anyway.

It looks like it’s: 4 year Aviation Degree. 141 flight training. Work as CFI at said Uni. Cape Air And/or Expressjet.

Same for the transfer and transition. You must go out on your own and get your time in the real 135 or 121 world first. And than it’s simply a guarantee interview - not guaranteed job.

Is the opinion out there of the other more traditional path gateways the same as Select as the last 4 pages indicate or is the Select just a completely seperate animal?

I don’t know that there is anything similar to this program in the US.

Some of the other programs mentioned in this thread are flows or guaranteed interviews.