Passerogas, you can do whatever you want and continue to hide behind your keyboard. If you think posting such a list (for the purpose of public shaming as you said) will promote unity, then go for it. Also, if you think a thread titled "Contract Talks" isn't monitored by the company, then you're most likely mistaken.

Dude, just follow the MEC's guidance regarding negotiations.

Um, I hope they monitor it. It might give them some ideas about the fight they (hopefully) are in for.

Again, I haven't published any list. The company does through crewtrac. I'd encourage everyone to check it out!

Also, I hide behind my keyboard because I don't need to end up on the company's "must fire list". You know the one where they threaten to fire people if they don't sign false documents accusing you of something?

I get it...you haven't published any list but I was commenting on your suggestion to do so. I just don't think that doing something like that will promote unity amongst the pilot group nor do I think that doing things that intentionally lead to promote ill will (like cancellation of flights) will be of benefit, should things go to mediation. Perhaps that's why the MEC has asked us not to discuss negotiations or tactics on sites like this.

I'm not even discussing the merits of demerits of picking up VDAs, RSAs or open time. For all you know I may even agree with you. I simply choose to follow the guidance of the people who we pay to make these decisions for us...the MEC.

Crusade away though and do whatever you think is best. Me? Well we voted in a union and I intend to let it do the job.

What about the guys flying up in to the 80 hrs per month range? Or 90? That's ok??

Yeah but the MEC can't encourage people to stop picking up open time. If they could I'm sure they would. (Or at least would hope so.)

But you and I as individuals can choose not to, because we are smart enough to figure out helping the company while they are messing with us is a bad idea.

https://vimeo.com/99167349

No.no.

"You above all" is the slogan...

Pretty sure I watch a nana the other day miss her flight because the gate wouldn't open the door to let her on at 8 minutes prior to push time with the bridge and plane still rubbing together.

"You above all"

How many articles have been TA'D? Also are things like improvements in benefits, work rules, and pay parity with the legacies strike items? I have to say I was shocked when I saw the health insurance stats. It's below most regionals benefits and more expensive. Just some questions from an outsider that would like to fly with you guys.

Look at Delta's healthcare. It isn't much better than ours. But their pay makes up for it. Gotta look at the total package. Our total package is lacking, and in most areas. That said, I don't know many regional guys who make more than a 3 year JB pilot, regardless of healthcare costs. But we have a long way to go when comparing a JB W2 + days off to the 3 legacies/SWA unless management wants attrition to stay/grow.

DPMP is our former plus plan is is much better than anything offered now.

I would take DALPA health care structure over ours any day.

My healthcare at my previous regional was better 4 years ago than what I have now. I remember being ****ed about a $300 deductible and $20 co-pays. Man, I want those days back.....

I'm positive if you asked most people 4 years ago if they prefer their healthcare then vs now, most would say then. Insurance costs have been increasing steadily it seems, and we're not even talking about the other constraints Obamacare caused with insurers leaving markets. Of course we need improved Insurance, I have that as a top item any time I'm asked via a poll.

Except the healthcare at said regional is still that way because it's tied to the contract. Has nothing or anything to do with Obamacare.

Just about everything at my previous regional was better. Health care. Work rules. Hotels. Vacation. Bidding system. No janitorial duties. Free first class non-rev travel. The list goes on.

Contract Talks
 

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Contract Talks
 

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You don't have janitorial Duties...

Yes, we do.

When we non rev we are expected to clean the whole plane, are we not? Per the elementary school video.

Is it in the FOM that we must clean?

You are correct. If you don't clean when non-revving you could lose your travel priveleges for B6 and other airlines (they will cut your access to MyIDTravel).

Wouldn't you rather work for another company?

Gup

No. But non-rev privileges aren't either.

GP

No you do not. Duties and Responsibilities.

Page 10-46 in the FOM IF YOURE A CAPT.

page 10-48 in the FOM IF YOURE AN FO.

3-23 of the pass riding guide says you are expected... not required to help clean. Read the words. The traianing guide is just that a guide. It is not the book.

Read the books.

In fact the exact opposite.

It says you're expected (not must, not required) to help... not how much... not how long.

I "expected" to win the lottery... well that didn't happen.

More than once I have been called out by a FA for not cleaning so one way or another you are expected to clean. At some point that becomes a requirement because I don't want to become "that" guy. I want to be a team player and not stand out as a selfish individual.

I have too. I used to show them the pages. Now I just smile and leave.

Who cares what some fa says to you!

Read the book.

It specifically states cleaning is NOT your problem.

Expected... is not required. ONLY WHEN NONREVING

I'll buy you a case of your favorite beer if you can find where it says any pilot must clean an aircraft as part of their duties. You can't because the FOM SAYS cleaning is NOT part of your duties as a first officer or captain. Please for the love.... read the FOM AND STOP LISTENING To the damn help in back

Except that BJ forced you to sign a legal document.

Allow me to quote the training from my friend's Ipad... ofwhich you checked a box at the end....
It wouldn't let you complete training without doing so...


IN THE SPIRIT OF THE INTEGRITY VALUE

I certify that :
I acknowledge that I must protect my Pass Riding privileges by
complying with all of BlueJet's rules and etiquette when pass
riding. I understand that I am responsible for communicating this
information to those who may use my pass riding privileges and
for their behavior.

[X] I Agree

So you see, all suckers have foolishly been extorted into signing a legal contract that is legally enforceable, regardless of the PEA. This merely amends it by policy.

PLEASE prove me wrong, with a lawyer... PLEASE.

Yep and the rules and etiquette are spelled out in the pass riding guide.

Do what you believe is right.

FA's know what they signed up for when becoming a FA at JetBlue. So don't feel like you are "that guy" when you don't help them do their job by cleaning the seat backs during turns. Why would you want to dumpster dive during cold and flu season, picking up crushed chips, bloody tissues, bags filled with vomit, half chewed up sandwiches, and used diapers? This to me makes no sense.

I get it, I've been that awkward guy by himself standing in the jetway while both FA's clean and the captain is digging up trash like it's free money. It's nothing personal at all. The reason flight attendants make you feel like you're "that guy" is because there are pilots who will dumpster dive, then it becomes expected from the next set of pilots. For the love of god, stop cleaning. Oh, and is there any way we can put out in the union blast mails each week a reminder to stop cleaning in uniform with passengers aboard the aircraft

It's not in the FOM that I must clean, it's not our job period, end of story. Pass riding is not my job, nor yours.

Some anecdote of some FA on some flight giving you grief is neither here nor there. She's not our boss, the FAA or the writer of our FOM. If fear of being "that guy" enters your head, i fear you're not capable of making responsible decisions in the cockpit. Being "that guy" is part of the job, carrying out unpopular decisions is a necessity in this business.

Expected is indeed required.

Lots of insurance plans have expected language which requires you to take reasonable care.

But that is contract law.

The BlueBook and other manuals are employment law and with this the employer gets to define 'intent' of the language.

"Expected" is required. Doubt that then call Grievance chairs.

So a couple weeks ago some FAs I was flying with were talking about some JB inflight FB page that they post comments about unruly pax etc. I joined the page thinking it would be entertaining reading regarding the drama in the back. Didn't take long to see the high and mighty comments about how if pilots aren't willing to help clean they have no problem reporting them. Yay. Thanks blue glove monitor guy... Haven't heard of anyone getting called to the carpet yet but apparently they're reporting us if they don't see us helping. Awesome. Nothing like missing my shuttle etc because I rushed off the plane trying to make transportation instead of dumpster diving... Didn't realize when I came here there would be an US vs THEM mentality between pilots and inflight. Certainly none of that was hinted at during indoc-we are one big blue family lol. Not so much! Disappointing to say the least...

Never clean on duty including deadheading. There is no basis in any manual to have us clean while on duty. JetBlue has a bazillion flight attendants, and I'm usually flying 1 or 2 legs with them, and I'll likely never see them again for months if not years. I don't give a crap if any of them gives me the stink eye, or says something to me.

When non-revving it doesn't specify how much you should clean, what constitutes cleaning, how much time you should spend cleaning, nor that any inflight crew sees you clean or verifies that you clean.

Armrest up? Well looks like I've done my part to help the "blue turn"

Make sure MY garbage is thrown away? Well, looks like I've done my part to help the "blue turn"

Ok, so here's the deal.

Yes, the FOM specifically says cleaning is not required while on duty.

However, in the the spirit of the CARING and INTEGRITY VALUES, BlewJet has fostered--actually, intentionally created--an adversarial relationship between FAs and pilots by planting in their impressionable heads that the pilots are expected to assist with the "Blew Turn" and that the pilots aren't living our faux values if they do not assist. This, in turn, leads to a breakdown in CRM and safety by creating an us versus them mentality which is completely unnecessary and unavoidable.

It is this peer pressure that leads normally rational non-juicers to don the gloves and dumpster dive in back. (I facepalm so hard when I see a lanyard-wearer playing janitor in the back. You expect it from the juicers, but f#*k, come on man!)

So you're right, it is not a codified requirement, but a de facto one in the eyes of everyone but those of us who are familiar with the FOM language.

Just another example of how utterly fake and fraudulent the "core values" are.

There's always a Loophole fellas/gals. We are (90%) of the time are NOT pass riding! Going to and from work I am not on a pass. I am JUMPSEATING. A privilege given to us as pilots. I check in with the captain and ask for a rid. Nowhere does it say anything about jumpseaters. Ask yourselves, would you order a beer in uniform commuting home from work in uniform, then why clean in uniform.

I always ask the Inflight if I can get there bags down from the overhead, and the majority are way happier with that than watching us clean. Every law break or preflight briefing, I'll tell the inflight prior, I'll do anything for you guys/gals but I'm not cleaning. Confrontation is defused

This whole thread depresses me......

Oh my

Rule 1 never join an FA FB page

Rule 2 FAs are the same everywhere


You know the mob is a "family operation" as well. You see what happens there.

I really wish our Union, for 1.9%, would stop telling us "do what you believe is right". Right or wrong has no bearing on the matter. Legal or illegal doesn't care about right or wrong (morally or ethically).

What are we LEGALLY obligated to do?, and WHY (legal reasons)?

How can we resist if we don't know the legalities? Has ALPA bothered to ask a lawyer on staff this question? For 1.9%+, we deserve a legal interpretation that we can go to court with sent out officially by ALPA without using nebulous phrases such as "do what you think is right".

I am on your side, believe me, but you must view this like a lawyer. If you took the training, you signed a legal document. How are you not liable at this point?

Yup... Management 101 stuff. If they believed in their "core values", they would sign a reciprocal CONTRACT with the pilots holding BJ accountable to their "core values".

Otherwise, it's management 101 smoke and mirrors for the uninitiated to believe in.