I want to hear it from LittleAbner. Then and only then will I believe it.

Anyone with families care to put in .02 on how hard this schedule is? At my current regional, I hold 12 days off. I’m trying to focus on the fact that I will actually gain a couple of days off, and no longer have the stress of a commute. My kids are 9 and 11, and they’re used to me being gone 4-5 days/week.

Just curious if there’s some good spin on the family side of it. I’m over commuting, pax, gate agents, and crowded airports.

I’m married with 2 small kids. The family deals with me being gone 16 days a month just fine. The key is spending as much time as you can with them while you’re home.
I was able to coach my sons t-ball team last year, and was there for most of the big holidays. For the ones I missed, we just celebrated a few days early.

Thanks! Good to hear.

Towards the end of 16 days, it gets a little hard, but is more than made up for with being home two weeks. It is vastly superior to a four on, three off with commutes thrown in.
You can actually plan a family vacation every month if the wife's schedule allows for it. I have two small ones at home, my QOL is superior from where it was at Mesa, and the family is much happier.
I couldn't tell you how it compares to some one who lives on base, I've never done it.

WiFi is adequate at most everywhere we go for FaceTime/Skype. For the kids that means getting to talk from what they consider some crazy corners of the globe. My 5yo can find Hong Kong on a globe; he thinks it’s pretty cool. And of course when I’m home it’s extra playground/catch/reading with Dad. Wife is 100% on board two weeks at home vs. the regional commute.

Thanks guys!

Honest question for those have responded...would you pass on a legacy to work for K4? We all know Pay/bennies are lightyears ahead at a legacy, but the fact that you’ll never have to stress a commute again is pretty fantastic.

It's one of those things, you know you are stupid to not do it, but I REALLY DO NOT WANT To do it. Not commuting is huge, and I really do not want to move to a state with an income tax. I would do Fed Ex or UPS long before I would go back to pax.
You already know the pax lifestyle, so I think you should give this one an honest try, see for yourself. You can always go back to pax if you like it better.

I hate flying pax with a passion. I detest commuting and don’t want to move. This job is fun, and pays very well so unless it goes TU I don’t foresee going anywhere in the near future. That being said, I daytrade on my days off and hope to not have to fly until I turn 65.

If you are depending on the company for your retirement go to the legacies. If you are ok with making your own future, the flying is fun, the time off is plentiful, and it beats the crap out getting a real job.

I guess a lot of people don’t realize that after the first year pay at FedEx/UPS or most legacy airlines, you could easily buy your own tickets to and from work and still be way ahead of what you’d be getting paid at K4. We’ve come a long way but let’s be realistic. In terms of total compensation, K4 doesn’t hold a candle to the “big boys”. We’re just another trash hauler that just happens to have a leading “trash hauler” contract.

This is just one person's opinion...…

A fair amount of the opinions on this board come from captains who have been around a while and with their seniority, the decent contract, and the recent growth are sitting pretty and have no plans to go anywhere except maybe FDX/UPS. I wouldn't go anywhere either.

The recent upgrades have gone what seems like very junior, under two years. K4 has been hiring approximately 16 pilots every 3 weeks for the past 6 months or so. Over 180 pilots have been hired in the last year in a company that has a little over 500 pilots total. K4 just got number 23 B747 out of a suggested 25 total and maybe a few more 767s coming and a possible 777 program in the future. The 747-400 won't be around forever and K4 seems to know that by beginning the process of bringing the 777 online but who knows how much of it would be organic growth or just replacements

I say all that to suggest that the hiring wave may have been missed. When the dust settles K4 may have 600-700 pilots and anyone hired today would be in the bottom 5th of all that. K4 doesn't need a lot of captains with the current crewing ratios and there is little attrition from the top with only 5-10 retirements a year for the next decade. We all know anything can happen and K4 could take over the world or they could furlough tomorrow.

No non-rev commuting is nice but you still commute. So your last day off is given up commuting especially if you live somewhere remote and/or you don't want to show up exhausted for your 10 hour flight after being awake on an airline all day (first day commute is not duty time)


The contract certainly needs some improvements in work rules and retirement and it can happen in the next round but under a dollar for dollar comparison it is hard for a K4 new hire to not seriously consider a Legacy carrier. You will make more money in the long term and you can one day not work 16+days a month on reserve.


For the non money items not having to jumpseat to work is nice and its value varies based on where you live etc. The company is ok to work with but they have grown a lot in a short time and the growing pains are real especially in the scheduling and IT department and several other areas too. You will never fly your line so you are basically on reserve for 16 days and not at home. If you want to actually fly your awarded line just go somewhere else. I like the longer stints away and at home but every family is different. The guys and gals you work with are cool and you will see some neat places but honestly you will go to the same 10 airports 90 percent of the time. As a new guy after IOE you will never fly the plane so if you are one of those guys who needs to feel the yoke in your palm look elsewhere.

I say all that to say there is no right answer. We all are just trying to juggle money versus happiness. I just wanted to provide a perspective that is more inline with what you would experience if hired today. I think if you are on the fence and you heard about 16 month upgrades you could be making the wrong choice if you look at the overall picture. If you are coming out of the military or the 135 world I would go to a regional (preferably with a flow through) as a DEC, get an LCA/ training position and hit the legacies from that angle.

Thanks for all the intel! I’m at a regional with a CPP, although the first attempt didn’t go as planned. My commute is decent, but I just look at the bid packet for next month and see 10 commutes, and cringe. I love where I live, though, so I’m not moving. My next shot at the Legacy will be Q2 next year, so I’m going to hang on until then.

I don’t want to fly pax, though, and so hopefully said Legacy will help me get to FedEx.

WHAT? Why? Please elaborate.

Cause this isn't the regionals where you can get in 2 landings a day. I was IRP for a month because of a new hire. Guess how many landings I got? Zero.

Yeah, that's no mystery that long haul Int'l pilots don't typically get 2 landings a day. But that doesn't answer my question on the statement of "you'll NEVER fly the airplane after IOE." If you're not stuck with a check airman for the month, and flying 70-85 hours a month, why wouldn't you get a couple sectors to fly and landings?

You can get 2-3 landings a month on average. If you’re IRP paired with a check airman giving IOE to another student, you will not get any TO or landings. I don’t think that’s been the case with new guys.

We fly with 3 or 4 pilots 95 percent of the time. Depending on your line you may fly less than 10 legs over your 16 day trip. The captain gets first dibs on landings and understandably so and I tend to change captains every few flights. We have so many guys on IOE so if you are with a check airman you will be IRP (relief pilot) every flight as the student in training gets every landing pretty much. So I misspoke when I said you will never fly. You just won't touch the controls 90% percent of the time :D That being said I just did 3 legs basic crew and the captain gave me every landing, maybe out of kindness or maybe out of laziness. Hard to tell.....

I was real excited about not dealing with pax and airline terminals etc too. Unfortunately you will still airline a lot, albeit as a passenger, which has its plusses and minuses. Also at most of the foreign airports we operate at you get dropped off and picked up right at the passenger terminal. You will go through the same security and deal with the same terminals full of pesky paxs and all that brings. You think the TSA is quacky…… Is it as bad as regionals??...maybe not but there will always be airports to deal with as they are the most suitable place to operate airplanes

I don’t know about most. Some. It’s especially annoying in Turkey where everyone goes in the “Diplomatic/Crew” entrance. Brussels is by far my favorite to arrive at. Talk to no one and just walk into the country.

Roger that, thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't for some other reason. The IOE thing is pretty understandable due to the hiring going on. Hell, at World, we used to add the guy on IOE to the 3 man crew and the 2 FO's would take turns doing nothing.

Funny, sometimes I do 6-8 landings a month as we are allowed to fly up 10 hours with a 2 man crew in Japan universe and have a lot of turnaround and 2 leg trips out of NRT.

Thanks again!

You are one of three or four pilots, to make matters worse, crews get broken up all the time, so when it would be your turn, you are now the new guy to the crew. You will be doing good if you get three landings in a month. If you stay with the same crew and everyone takes turns, you could get five. As a brand new guy off IOE, I had to beg for a landing, always getting reminder emails to get my three landings in. Once you develop a reputation for good landings, the problem goes away. I've said it before, this pilot group is very critical of stick and rudder skills, so are the mechanics and load masters. You screw up a landing, bend something, the entire pilot group will know about it as if it was the Borg Collective.

"...there will always be airports to deal with as they are the most suitable place to operate airplanes. "

BING! BING! BING! - WE HAVE A WINNER!

Where do we find Men of such stellar wit?

(I'm stealing that line, BTW.)

:)

------------------------------------------------------------------

P. Hawg - I have MANY thoughts on your original question. But, as regards how the Family copes, here is a true story indicating their ability to adapt.

So...We are at a BBQ/pool party at my Buddies house. It's Saturday and his kid is watching cartoons in the Living Room on the Big Screen. So, Dad goes in to tell the young man, who had been forewarned, that now you can watch TV downstairs, the football game is on.. "" No, DAD! PLEASE!" My Buddy gives him the " Dad Look" and the 5 year old rambles off towards the Kitchen. We then hear him say to his Mother " Mom, can you tell Dad to go back to work ?! "

No Problem.

:)

STK

Good story Stimpy, I hear that too.
Really, this question has an extremely simple answer... Send out resumes everywhere, the first mainline, LCC, cargo, what ever that gives you a class date is where you are going. I didn't hand select Kalitta, they simply were the ones to offer me a position. I didn't realize how good it was until after I was flying the line. You are going to feel the same way no matter where you go.

Trying to get more intel from the 9/5 interview group, but I heard not many were hired, like only 6 of 21. I could be way off though. Those that were offered were given a class dates in 2019. So things are very backed up by the sound of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So if we have apps in the second stage of review can we expect to wait till next year as well? Availability is 1 Feb 19.

If you don't have an interview yet, then
expect next year.

Off the wall question.
Wife is military. We’re looking at her final assignment and there’s an outside chance she might get Germany.
Possibility of making this work from there?

They have been hiring a bunch of pilots from one regional and giving them the September/October class dates.

Yes, it can be done. We have several that live outside the US and commute to their gateway city.

Anyone hired at this stage better be prepared to sit as an FO for a few years or more depending on attrition. I think the 2 year upgrade wave has past. Just saying.

K4 2018 Hiring update.
Hiring is not slowing down, however we only have 3 more classes scheduled for this year and I believe they are all full. We only have 2 more interview days set up for this year, (9/12 & 9/13), so if you are not in one of those it will probably be January. Mid November through Christmas day is our busiest time of the year so the only training we do is IOE, as all checkairmen and instructors fly the line. We are planning classes of 18 (2-B767& 16-B744) every three weeks all of next year.

All very true. Nice realistic post.

I am too tired to figure out how to get Colt's post to show up as a quote. But...


Yes, I am a captain posting. And, kinda senior. And, kinda inside the YIP structure.


We do not have 500+ pilots, we have more like 450. Attrition still exists and we lose about 50 a year to the majors.


Staffing goal is 21 pilots per 747, 10 pilots per 767, and 21 pilots per 777. The overall fleet count is to maintain a fleet of roughly 25 747s that will gradually transition from BCFs to straight Fs or ERFs. And, my personal speculation is that there will be a relatively stable 767 fleet at roughly 12 units. The rest of this is straight up guess. There are a lot of factors in play with the 777 thing. Could never be more than a couple. Could be about 12 (my personal best guess) by 2020 ish.


So, my high school math says that works out to 546 pilots for the 747, 120 for the 767, and 252 for the 777. (I do not see the 747 fleet shrinking as the 777 fleet grows. Waaaayyyy to much ad hoc business to support the whale). So, I would put the total pilot force by end of year 2020 at roughly 900.


My opinion, it is perfectly reasonable to see today's new hire in the left seat in 24-30 months. But, putting on my schoolhouse hat, just because you can hold a seat does not necessarily mean you are ready.

Worked for AEI the predecessor to DHLGF, as we liked to say if it’s on the map we will move your crap. Big time evil management cargo executive today who charters K4 to KSA on occasion. Also was a big time evil management exec for the 5Y customer in HSV.

Assure you nobody on our side would, be offended. I suggest trying to get laid it might help with your tension levels.

I have one application on the website that was submitted early last year and one that I saved to finish this year. The saved app. now shows a message that you are no longer accepting applications for this position. Will you be opening the “window” to accept apps. at a later date? Next year after peak season? Or should I be sending a current resume to an HR email address?

You only need to submit an application once.

Thanks Riverside.

I missed the CP meeting today. Anything interesting happen?

It’s tomorrow

According to the 50 invitations I recieved. I agree.