Kalitta, The Bad
 

I’ve got a class date offer at K4, and I’ve read a lot of good stuff on here about Kalitta. I’m currently at a regional, with lots of time, but can’t seem to get a call anywhere. I’m over commuting, and 13 days off a month (even after 10+ months at my current regional). Again, I’ve read a lot of “the good” about Kalitta, but haven’t read much negative. There has to be some. What are the “bad” aspects of K4?

Thanks in advance!

If you are having trouble getting calls and looking for cargo spots you might try ABX. Quick note that Kalitta has home basing along with Omni / ATI etc if you don't like commute stuff.

Another question you might as is how does Kalitta compare to the other companies you've gotten an an offer from.

My advice, do not "try" ABX, Atlas or Southern.

Those are sure to disappoint in the short term. Way too much labor unrest right now and you'll be jumping into the middle of smoldering war between the union and company. NOT FUN.

In the short term, yes, Kalitta has the best deal. Relatively peaceful labor relations with their new contract, short upgrades, lots of expansion. What's not to like at this point?

The long term picture at Kalitta however is a little foggy. It's a privately owned company and the owner is very old with no clear (at least not publicly) plan for his succession.

I think if you're looking for a long term career at a Legacy or FedEx or UPS, then Kalitta would be a good place for a couple years to pump up your resume.

Keep all those apps updated as retirements industry wide continue to ramp up until 2023. Still lots of hiring to be done.

I am not at K4, but am on the 74 in ACMI.

This ACMI world is not like flying a schedule that Delta/American/United had nailed down three months ago. It is not like flying into stations that work 5 of your flights a day.

The schedule is jello being nailed to a wall. The quality of ground support varies from excellent (Japan) to awful (Africa). You will fly in areas where ATC could care less if you die, as long as they have your tail number for billing purposes. You may find yourself turning off all your lights for descent and landing, and I do mean all of them.

And you will see and do things that no one flying for a Legacy will ever see or do. You will begin to speak an aviation dialect that your friends at conventional airlines will not understand.

Some people love it and thrive, others hate it. But understand that it is what it is.

How adventurous are you? How bored do you get flying your current schedule? When things don't go the way that they should are you still mad/frustrated about it 2 hours later? Do you like having a FA, or does the idea of making your own coffee and taking a [short] walkabout in the upper deck when you want to stretch appeal to you? Can you still fly a good airplane in jeans and a sweatshirt while your uniform is on a hanger in the back?

One man's wine is another man's poison.

Kind of like that twinge when you hear a WO opine about their “educational background”.....

The bad.... hum.. the scheduling department has been in constant disarray for years.... mainly due to huge turnover and exponential growth. Work / duty rules are fairly weak. ex... my last trip of the month... was this...

CVG-NGO....14.4 hours... followed by abosolute min rest of 11 hours behind the door. Followed by NGO-HKG(4.6 hours), 6+ hour sit for cargo, then HKG-ANC(9.9 hours) all in one duty day.

Bottom line occasionally... you will do some LONG LONG days... commercial DHing is on the increase due to short staffing. more later

Let’s not forget that one is no longer allowed to sleep in the bunk naked.

Bad #2: sometimes the greedy capts take all the pound cake.

Nailed it.
Great post.
:D

This won’t apply until you upgrade, but we only have flight followers, not dispatchers since Connie doesn’t want to pay a higher wage. Because of that there’s no skin in the game when it comes to flight plans. Sometimes it works out great, while other times they’ll ask you to do something completely illegal and you have to tell them to pound sand.

If you hate the pax world, the airport appreciation, commuting, crash pads, and cargo that talks back to you, you may just end up loving K4.
It is good that you are experiencing pax flying first, will allow you to appreciate this place more while others will ***** because they have this, "Catch Me if You Can" idea about the pax world, but no experience with it.

Not necessarily a " Bad " thing...But -

Question: Ask yourself... "Can I give up all control over what happens to me for 16 days in a row no matter how ridiculous, inefficient, illogical and downright stupid it might seem without getting upset about it ?"

If you need structure, sanity, and/or schedules you will have a difficult time.

Effectively, there is no such thing as Schedules, or Scheduling, for that matter.

"Jello nailed to the wall" as mentioned above.

On the other hand, if you CAN go with the "flow" ( think cascading, never ending Wall of Feces ) for two weeks plus at a click.. you will really enjoy it.

Especially when they lose you, without an airplane or a Crew, in Riga, Latvia for 9 days in the summer and you have to sit in the outdoor Cafe's watching all the Super Model East European Women in their summer dresses while downing cold beverages at exceptionally good prices.

(Although, to the money hungry, the above is a nightmare scenario so, your perceptions and mileage may vary.)


:)

Good Luck !


STK

Bad #2: sometimes the greedy capts take all the pound cake.[/QUOTE]

Definitely have to be in the ACMI world to catch that reference. Ha ha. Five towns forever....:)

Thanks guys! 14+ years here at my regional have me jaded right now. I couldn’t care less about what they did with my 16 days on the road, as long as I a) don’t have to commute and b) have my two weeks off to look forward to at the end.

I’ve been offered a 747 class, but hear that 767 CA is 10 months. How much different is the 767 flying at K4?

Thanks again.

Fact. The department is 5 flight followers/dispatchers short. The past three new hires have left for different airlines in some cases less than 6month on the job. Training and working conditions need to be improved before we will see more consistent flight plans and better overal quality. The revolving door needs to stop if we want to be a big boy airline and have more support out on the line.

This ^^^^^^

I want to preface this post w/ I'm very happy here at K4, I'm only leaving if FedEx or UPS calls and maybe a legacy. You wanted the negatives and here they are IMHO:

-Retirement leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully it's a priority for the next contract because to attract and retain young talent it needs to change.
-Work rules are weak, not awful, but could use some better language in certain areas w/ QoL improvements on the next contract.
-It's ACMI, they're upgrading like crazy now but tomorrow they can be furloughing if we lose a contract or oil skyrockets. That's any job in aviation, but ACMI is especially vulnerable.
-If you're on the 74 side, fighting w/ Travel & Scheduling over CBA complaint Travel/Pairings can be annoying.
-Training leaves a lot to be desired...

Again these are strictly the negatives, and the positives really outweigh these issues. It's a great job and I'm happy to be here.

Vastly different, take the 74 class. You can always upgrade onto the 76 later

I never understood the pilots who got upset Day 1 of a 4 day because the schedule got jacked up. I mean if we had a sweet overnight lined up it's a bummer. Day 4, yeah. I want to get home. But I saw guys lose their minds due to a 1-hour taxi in LGA day 1. Who cares??? We're paid by the minute.
Of course, they were normally the same guys who wouldn't lift a finger if the operation was not working perfectly and take a 3-hour delay.

Join us on the Dark Side.

Night and day dude. 76 is hub turns domestic flying. 74 is cruising the world. Unless you have a serious aversion to jet lag, go 74

747 is a much easier job for a lot more pay. Who cares about sitting left seat, I know of two Captains on the 76 who constantly talk/joke about bidding back to the 74 as an FO! :eek::D:D

How hard would it be to hold MSP overnights on the 76 consistently? Or am I thinking too conventionally from a scheduling standpoint?

I would suggest reading page 2 again.

On the 767 you actually kind of stick to your schedule, unlike the 747 side. While there is a lot to be desired from crew scheduling, things are slowly improving on the 767. So as long as you’re able to get awarded a line with MSP overnights, I’d say you could count on getting them. Of course this is still ACMI, with a scheduling department whom only know ACMI. So be prepared and best bet is to not let scheduling know you’d prefer MSP overnights. Just saying....

FWIW the MSP overnight, like most 767 overnights is so short you basically eat and go straight to bed.

[QUOTE=Blackhawk;2709770]Join us on the Dark Side.[/QUOTE

Didnt even know they gave you an option really... can you tell them you want to bypass the offered class for another equipment?

[QUOTE=mukalel;2709901]I just meant joining us at K4. They did ask me a preference when I interviewed. I told them I wanted the 747 but would take what was offered.

[QUOTE=mukalel;2709901]Why would you ever give up seniority for equipment? In a short period of time (In the big picture) you bid the equipment you want and take the seniority with you. I hear we are running classes of 20 or more. In a company with less than 600 pilots 20 or 30 numbers is a lot to give up.

Does anyone know when K4 will start taking applications again? I think I’ve heard possibly January?

My recommendation just got the call on Thursday, so it seems that the window is opening again. And said pilot is not ASA, so it must be open to the rest of the world.

Even in current classes there are some nonASA mixed in, though they are the minority.

what are the minimums? 1500 hrs and a ATP? :D

The published mins are:

2500 Total Time
1500 Turbine
500 Turbine PIC

Im not sure I have seen/heard of anyone in class with less than 5000TT. I asked the same question probably 6 months ago and that's my conclusion.

Thank you much!

Thanks for the info bud

In the past it was said they were looking for 5000 hours, true international experience, and wide body time. If you met two of the above you would be a definite candidate. If you only met one then you would need to be very strong in that area, or have something else in your background that would indicate a unique suitability to operate in our environment. This was back when I came in under the old contract when slots weren’t as competitive as they are now, so take it for what it’s worth.

Does military aviation do much to help? I should clarify.... Military helicopter time which is obviously not as valuable military fixed wing (potentially worthless depending on the company)

I have flown with some pilots here whose largest percentage of flight time was in helicopters. Often the rest of their time was in smaller turboprops. You have to play to win. Fill out the application, try to network and give it a shot.

How do you apply these days? Seems they’re not accepting apps through the website & the apc link doesn’t work.

You don’t. The window for new apps opens at the beginning of the year. The people being called were the guys that were already phase 2.