Recession
10-07-2008, 06:32 AM
#1
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Recession
The recession of the early 1990s was brutal for pilots. The economy recovered quick enough however the lasting effects on the aviation job market seemed to drag on for many years after. I was working as a flight instructor in Anchorage at the time. Once the recession hit it was like flipping a switch. One day the students were there and the next they were not. I was laid off and so were plenty of other pilots across America. It was late summer and I knew that there was little hope of resurrecting my CFI career in Alaska. Winter was coming and it was time to leave.
I sold or gave away most of my belongings since it is so expensive to move anything in or out of the state and hit the road. I traveled south in hopes of finding warmer weather and a fresh start as a CFI. When I hit Seattle I discovered that those flight schools required $5,000 at the time to be hired as a CFI who was limited to Private pilots, BFR's, Check outs and Commercial pilot licenses. Their reason for the charge was to "cover training expenses". The real reason was that they asked for the money because they could.
I headed even farther south in search of the golden sunny corporate flight flight schools that I had read about. When I reached Phoenix I found a bunch of guys in suits sitting on the sidewalk in front of each flight school. The suits all held a single piece of paper in their hand. They were all there awaiting a specific target to walk by, the chief pilot. As soon as he would appear they all jumped up and brushed the dust off and proudly held out an extended arm with a resume in it. The chief pilot would graciously scoop them up with a nod and head into the building. At that point the ties came loose, the cigarettes broke out and group began to dissipate until the next morning.
I moved across every state stopping at each airport and found a similar story. In pueblo the single instructor jumped up startled when I came through the door. He told me that I was the only person to come through the door all week. He seemed lonely and was eager to talk. Eventually he received a call from his boss giving him permission to take the 152 around the pattern since it had been so long since it had been flown. My next plan took me to the library to find phone books from other states and began a phone campaign. After a few dozen calls a guy in Albuquerque invited me in for an interview.
I was on the road the next day. When I got there I discovered that it seemed to be a fairly large school with over 6 planes. The interview was reasonably long. He was impressed with how much time I had and after bunch of the usual questions he extended a hand and gave me the job. I was very happy and thanked him profusely. At the conclusion of our meeting he told me that "the student comes in on Thursday". In silent horror I waited for him to depart the office and rushed to the schedule book. I had to flip through several blank pages before reaching the single entry on Thursday. The entire business was deceased except for one person. I was being paid by the hour so I immediately knew that it wouldn't work out. I was back on the road again 15 minutes later.
I began to bounce around the west coast crashing at old and forgotten friends houses until my welcome was worn out and then I would move on. Before I realized it occurred to me that I was homeless. I mostly lived in my truck and was getting by on my scant savings and from unemployment checks. I could not risk spending the little money I had left on a deposit and move in expenses unless I had a job there and in aviation. I had to be able to go where the jobs were however there were no jobs to be had. I drifted for 9 months before an old flight student was able to track me down.
He offered me a job as an Alaska river guide. He had purchased a Cessna 150 and needed me to teach him how to fly in it. He also wanted to have me use it to check on groups as they made their way down river. Once he was done with his training I moved on to instruct his brother and a few of the other guides as well. Eventually I was able to buy the plane from him and I began to instruct others. My truck became my home and flight school. Most of the summer I spent in a tent on the river. I would do ground instructing at my students homes. They would throw in lunch as a tip. A year later I was flying my 150 in the bush on my way to a potential new student and I lucked into an airtaxi job.
I had pestered this guy for months and months but he told me repeatedly that I did not have enough flight time. He wanted 2000 hours and an ATP in order to fly the 207. However on this day Someone did not show up for ground school and now he was scrambling to find a replacement. I was short of his minimums but he still took me up in one oif his planes and had me fly some maneuvers. That afternoon I had a spot in ground school. Along with actually being paid I was given modest housing.
My time as homeless and thinly employed was over. I was a flying drifter for 20 months and completely homeless for 9 of them. The rest of the time was spent on couches or sleeping in my cot in a friends laundry room. Times now really remind me of the recession of the early 1990's however this time it could be much worse. Hope for the best but plan for the wost. I could be many years before hiring really gets going again for anyone.
My advise is that if you are sleeping in your car or truck remember to crack a window. The condensation will give you away to the cops. Pick a spot that is not overly remote. The police and criminals are attracted to lone vehicles parked in alleys. Truck stops often have showers that they rent by the half hour. If you are crashing at a friends house diligently clean up after yourself. Do the dishes. Buy lots of food for yourself and for your hosts. Do chores for them. Become sensitive to their needs and frequently disappear so that they can preserve their sense of privacy. Make yourself a asset to them and your ability to stay will be greatly extended. And lastly leave before it is to late. You want them to be a bit sad when you leave so that in two months you can return.
SkyHigh
I sold or gave away most of my belongings since it is so expensive to move anything in or out of the state and hit the road. I traveled south in hopes of finding warmer weather and a fresh start as a CFI. When I hit Seattle I discovered that those flight schools required $5,000 at the time to be hired as a CFI who was limited to Private pilots, BFR's, Check outs and Commercial pilot licenses. Their reason for the charge was to "cover training expenses". The real reason was that they asked for the money because they could.
I headed even farther south in search of the golden sunny corporate flight flight schools that I had read about. When I reached Phoenix I found a bunch of guys in suits sitting on the sidewalk in front of each flight school. The suits all held a single piece of paper in their hand. They were all there awaiting a specific target to walk by, the chief pilot. As soon as he would appear they all jumped up and brushed the dust off and proudly held out an extended arm with a resume in it. The chief pilot would graciously scoop them up with a nod and head into the building. At that point the ties came loose, the cigarettes broke out and group began to dissipate until the next morning.
I moved across every state stopping at each airport and found a similar story. In pueblo the single instructor jumped up startled when I came through the door. He told me that I was the only person to come through the door all week. He seemed lonely and was eager to talk. Eventually he received a call from his boss giving him permission to take the 152 around the pattern since it had been so long since it had been flown. My next plan took me to the library to find phone books from other states and began a phone campaign. After a few dozen calls a guy in Albuquerque invited me in for an interview.
I was on the road the next day. When I got there I discovered that it seemed to be a fairly large school with over 6 planes. The interview was reasonably long. He was impressed with how much time I had and after bunch of the usual questions he extended a hand and gave me the job. I was very happy and thanked him profusely. At the conclusion of our meeting he told me that "the student comes in on Thursday". In silent horror I waited for him to depart the office and rushed to the schedule book. I had to flip through several blank pages before reaching the single entry on Thursday. The entire business was deceased except for one person. I was being paid by the hour so I immediately knew that it wouldn't work out. I was back on the road again 15 minutes later.
I began to bounce around the west coast crashing at old and forgotten friends houses until my welcome was worn out and then I would move on. Before I realized it occurred to me that I was homeless. I mostly lived in my truck and was getting by on my scant savings and from unemployment checks. I could not risk spending the little money I had left on a deposit and move in expenses unless I had a job there and in aviation. I had to be able to go where the jobs were however there were no jobs to be had. I drifted for 9 months before an old flight student was able to track me down.
He offered me a job as an Alaska river guide. He had purchased a Cessna 150 and needed me to teach him how to fly in it. He also wanted to have me use it to check on groups as they made their way down river. Once he was done with his training I moved on to instruct his brother and a few of the other guides as well. Eventually I was able to buy the plane from him and I began to instruct others. My truck became my home and flight school. Most of the summer I spent in a tent on the river. I would do ground instructing at my students homes. They would throw in lunch as a tip. A year later I was flying my 150 in the bush on my way to a potential new student and I lucked into an airtaxi job.
I had pestered this guy for months and months but he told me repeatedly that I did not have enough flight time. He wanted 2000 hours and an ATP in order to fly the 207. However on this day Someone did not show up for ground school and now he was scrambling to find a replacement. I was short of his minimums but he still took me up in one oif his planes and had me fly some maneuvers. That afternoon I had a spot in ground school. Along with actually being paid I was given modest housing.
My time as homeless and thinly employed was over. I was a flying drifter for 20 months and completely homeless for 9 of them. The rest of the time was spent on couches or sleeping in my cot in a friends laundry room. Times now really remind me of the recession of the early 1990's however this time it could be much worse. Hope for the best but plan for the wost. I could be many years before hiring really gets going again for anyone.
My advise is that if you are sleeping in your car or truck remember to crack a window. The condensation will give you away to the cops. Pick a spot that is not overly remote. The police and criminals are attracted to lone vehicles parked in alleys. Truck stops often have showers that they rent by the half hour. If you are crashing at a friends house diligently clean up after yourself. Do the dishes. Buy lots of food for yourself and for your hosts. Do chores for them. Become sensitive to their needs and frequently disappear so that they can preserve their sense of privacy. Make yourself a asset to them and your ability to stay will be greatly extended. And lastly leave before it is to late. You want them to be a bit sad when you leave so that in two months you can return.
SkyHigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 10-07-2008 at 06:48 AM.
10-07-2008, 07:09 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I could be many years before hiring really gets going again for anyone.
Aside from cushy Government jobs, this is the case for many industries. It makes me sick to see that Federal employees are getting a 3.9% RAISE this year, yet everyone in the private sector continues to suffer. It seems that the paradigm has completely shifted from underpaid civil servants to overpaid Government bureaucrats who pull in six figures while the rest of us do harder work for less money. Wish I could sit at a desk and pull in a GS-13 salary while wondering where I will go to lunch today.
10-07-2008, 07:27 AM
#3
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Rant
Originally Posted by N5139
/RANT/
Aside from cushy Government jobs, this is the case for many industries. It makes me sick to see that Federal employees are getting a 3.9% RAISE this year, yet everyone in the private sector continues to suffer. It seems that the paradigm has completely shifted from underpaid civil servants to overpaid Government bureaucrats who pull in six figures while the rest of us do harder work for less money. Wish I could sit at a desk and pull in a GS-13 salary while wondering where I will go to lunch today.
Aside from cushy Government jobs, this is the case for many industries. It makes me sick to see that Federal employees are getting a 3.9% RAISE this year, yet everyone in the private sector continues to suffer. It seems that the paradigm has completely shifted from underpaid civil servants to overpaid Government bureaucrats who pull in six figures while the rest of us do harder work for less money. Wish I could sit at a desk and pull in a GS-13 salary while wondering where I will go to lunch today.
College educated people these days will take a interesting sounding job over wages and benefits. As a result professions like aviation do not offer much. Employers know that we blew a fortune in training costs to get there and are not to willing to throw it away over low pay. We hang on to the dream in order to save face in front of our friends and family. All the while loosing ground.
Skyhigh
10-07-2008, 12:11 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 825
Ygtbsm
Originally Posted by N5139
/RANT/
Aside from cushy Government jobs, this is the case for many industries. It makes me sick to see that Federal employees are getting a 3.9% RAISE this year, yet everyone in the private sector continues to suffer. It seems that the paradigm has completely shifted from underpaid civil servants to overpaid Government bureaucrats who pull in six figures while the rest of us do harder work for less money. Wish I could sit at a desk and pull in a GS-13 salary while wondering where I will go to lunch today.
Aside from cushy Government jobs, this is the case for many industries. It makes me sick to see that Federal employees are getting a 3.9% RAISE this year, yet everyone in the private sector continues to suffer. It seems that the paradigm has completely shifted from underpaid civil servants to overpaid Government bureaucrats who pull in six figures while the rest of us do harder work for less money. Wish I could sit at a desk and pull in a GS-13 salary while wondering where I will go to lunch today.
He approaches me and asks me if I fly said plane. I said: "yeah we just flew it in on thrusday and will take it home tomorrow". So he asks me some questions and gathers I'm a Reservist. So instantly he asks me: "So, you're building time for the airlines?" And I respond "Oh..heck no. I'm not interested in that line of work, I'm going for a full time job at the unit". You'd think I cussed his mother out for this old man began patronizing me like I haven't been since I left high school. He began his banter with how great his schedule is to how much more money one makes and then ended with how my hopes to go full-time was, get this, a dead-end job. He had the nads to suggest he enjoys more job security than an ART (the position I hope to attain) and how I'm just an LT and don't know any better. Well, I know he wouldn't have addressed my AC MAJ type with such tone, but he sure messed with the wrong co-pilot that day. I pretty muched summed my position on the airline business in much the same way I've addressed it here. Everything from the regionals to lack of lateral career progression, to furloughs to time away from home vis-a-vis to other careers, the whole nine. He expected me to accept his dumb rationale that because I got single blue bars on my shoulders today I can't have any clue as to what is good for my financial future to save my life. And he stepped on his own d$ck that day. He sure didn't appreciate being lectured by a snot nosed LT on the virtues of staying away from the airlines, from a fellow military pilot no less.
The point of the story is that some senior airline pilots like this douchebag are the most smug and bitter people I've encountered in this line of work [reserves]. I now fully understand why the profession is doomed and why from a labor point of view your peers are your worst enemies.
So you want to decry GS jobs? Pilots are the most self-interested cry babies I've met in my life. As soon as Kit Darby so much as hints someone may be hiring you all run out like crackheads to get the fix, and now you can't find enough people to man the squadron full-time. As soon as the industry bends you over (again) without lube you're back and now this dead end GS-13 job is the greatest excess since caviar. Furthermore, just because you intellectually flip flop like old hoo-has down French Quarter between taking an undercompensated pilot job and leaving the industry for real economic security doesn't mean some of us who did our homeworks early and saw the benefits of civil service and have vested ourselves in working towards that end should have to entertain your assertion that government work is this excess-ridden land of fat cats. You want Freedom Fries with that too? Guess what, I'd take a GS-13 flying an old jet with full medical and pension A fund any day of the week and twice on sunday, heck I'd take a GS-12 flying a Cessna around chasing Pedro around Laredo, or even the non-flying desk job for that matter, before you could pay me enough to entertain the idea of vesting my economic future on the opportunity cost of getting to fly a 777 (DL INTL), or even domestically day trips (the LUV experience). I know so many Guard fellows who are in one way or another affiliated with places like comair, xjt, rah, continental, delta, flight options, AA, Unites, former TWA; and all these people sing the praises of govt work when the going gets tough but as soon as somebody hints the gig may be back up everybody runs to the door, it's crazy, truly a functional addiction, and I for one have no sympathy or patience to entertain the civil servant potshots while all y'all are literally in the corner wh#ring yourself to get in the door, while your senior familiy car mechanic knows his vocation is just a job, but pulls his steady 70K without gaps in employment like the good Lord intended. Jesus tap dancing Christ you 121 hopefuls truly have no SA.
Last edited by hindsight2020; 10-07-2008 at 12:20 PM.
10-07-2008, 12:35 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 116
EDITED for maturity's sake:
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
You want cheese with that whine? Here's an interesting thing that happened to me while taking our jet to the Westover airshow in September. For the most part people were interested in the static display, asking questions, conversing about the capes and performance, and generally having a good time. At the end of the show security is scooting people towards the gates and out of the corner of my eye comes this old man, generally smug in appearance and quiet.
He approaches me and asks me if I fly said plane. I said: "yeah we just flew it in on thrusday and will take it home tomorrow". So he asks me some questions and gathers I'm a Reservist. So instantly he asks me: "So, you're building time for the airlines?" And I respond "Oh..heck no. I'm not interested in that line of work, I'm going for a full time job at the unit". You'd think I cussed his mother out for this old man began patronizing me like I haven't been since I left high school. He began his banter with how great his schedule is to how much more money one makes and then ended with how my hopes to go full-time was, get this, a dead-end job. He had the nads to suggest he enjoys more job security than an ART (the position I hope to attain) and how I'm just an LT and don't know any better. Well, I know he wouldn't have addressed my AC MAJ type with such tone, but he sure messed with the wrong co-pilot that day. I pretty muched summed my position on the airline business in much the same way I've addressed it here. Everything from the regionals to lack of lateral career progression, to furloughs to time away from home vis-a-vis to other careers, the whole nine. He expected me to accept his dumb rationale that because I got single blue bars on my shoulders today I can't have any clue as to what is good for my financial future to save my life. And he stepped on his own d$ck that day. He sure didn't appreciate being lectured by a snot nosed LT on the virtues of staying away from the airlines, from a fellow military pilot no less.
The point of the story is that some senior airline pilots like this douchebag are the most smug and bitter people I've encountered in this line of work [reserves]. I now fully understand why the profession is doomed and why from a labor point of view your peers are your worst enemies.
So you want to decry GS jobs? Pilots are the most self-interested cry babies I've met in my life. As soon as Kit Darby so much as hints someone may be hiring you all run out like crackheads to get the fix, and now you can't find enough people to man the squadron full-time. As soon as the industry bends you over (again) without lube you're back and now this dead end GS-13 job is the greatest excess since caviar. Furthermore, just because you intellectually flip flop like old hoo-has down French Quarter between taking an undercompensated pilot job and leaving the industry for real economic security doesn't mean some of us who did our homeworks early and saw the benefits of civil service and have vested ourselves in working towards that end should have to entertain your assertion that government work is this excess-ridden land of fat cats. You want Freedom Fries with that too? Guess what, I'd take a GS-13 flying an old jet with full medical and pension A fund any day of the week and twice on sunday, heck I'd take a GS-12 flying a Cessna around chasing Pedro around Laredo, or even the non-flying desk job for that matter, before you could pay me enough to entertain the idea of vesting my economic future on the opportunity cost of getting to fly a 777 (DL INTL), or even domestically day trips (the LUV experience). I know so many Guard fellows who are in one way or another affiliated with places like comair, xjt, rah, continental, delta, flight options, AA, Unites, former TWA; and all these people sing the praises of govt work when the going gets tough but as soon as somebody hints the gig may be back up everybody runs to the door, it's crazy, truly a functional addiction, and I for one have no sympathy or patience to entertain the civil servant potshots while all y'all are literally in the corner wh#ring yourself to get in the door, while your senior familiy car mechanic knows his vocation is just a job, but pulls his steady 70K without gaps in employment like the good Lord intended. Jesus tap dancing Christ you 121 hopefuls truly have no SA.
He approaches me and asks me if I fly said plane. I said: "yeah we just flew it in on thrusday and will take it home tomorrow". So he asks me some questions and gathers I'm a Reservist. So instantly he asks me: "So, you're building time for the airlines?" And I respond "Oh..heck no. I'm not interested in that line of work, I'm going for a full time job at the unit". You'd think I cussed his mother out for this old man began patronizing me like I haven't been since I left high school. He began his banter with how great his schedule is to how much more money one makes and then ended with how my hopes to go full-time was, get this, a dead-end job. He had the nads to suggest he enjoys more job security than an ART (the position I hope to attain) and how I'm just an LT and don't know any better. Well, I know he wouldn't have addressed my AC MAJ type with such tone, but he sure messed with the wrong co-pilot that day. I pretty muched summed my position on the airline business in much the same way I've addressed it here. Everything from the regionals to lack of lateral career progression, to furloughs to time away from home vis-a-vis to other careers, the whole nine. He expected me to accept his dumb rationale that because I got single blue bars on my shoulders today I can't have any clue as to what is good for my financial future to save my life. And he stepped on his own d$ck that day. He sure didn't appreciate being lectured by a snot nosed LT on the virtues of staying away from the airlines, from a fellow military pilot no less.
The point of the story is that some senior airline pilots like this douchebag are the most smug and bitter people I've encountered in this line of work [reserves]. I now fully understand why the profession is doomed and why from a labor point of view your peers are your worst enemies.
So you want to decry GS jobs? Pilots are the most self-interested cry babies I've met in my life. As soon as Kit Darby so much as hints someone may be hiring you all run out like crackheads to get the fix, and now you can't find enough people to man the squadron full-time. As soon as the industry bends you over (again) without lube you're back and now this dead end GS-13 job is the greatest excess since caviar. Furthermore, just because you intellectually flip flop like old hoo-has down French Quarter between taking an undercompensated pilot job and leaving the industry for real economic security doesn't mean some of us who did our homeworks early and saw the benefits of civil service and have vested ourselves in working towards that end should have to entertain your assertion that government work is this excess-ridden land of fat cats. You want Freedom Fries with that too? Guess what, I'd take a GS-13 flying an old jet with full medical and pension A fund any day of the week and twice on sunday, heck I'd take a GS-12 flying a Cessna around chasing Pedro around Laredo, or even the non-flying desk job for that matter, before you could pay me enough to entertain the idea of vesting my economic future on the opportunity cost of getting to fly a 777 (DL INTL), or even domestically day trips (the LUV experience). I know so many Guard fellows who are in one way or another affiliated with places like comair, xjt, rah, continental, delta, flight options, AA, Unites, former TWA; and all these people sing the praises of govt work when the going gets tough but as soon as somebody hints the gig may be back up everybody runs to the door, it's crazy, truly a functional addiction, and I for one have no sympathy or patience to entertain the civil servant potshots while all y'all are literally in the corner wh#ring yourself to get in the door, while your senior familiy car mechanic knows his vocation is just a job, but pulls his steady 70K without gaps in employment like the good Lord intended. Jesus tap dancing Christ you 121 hopefuls truly have no SA.
Last edited by N5139; 10-07-2008 at 12:40 PM.
10-07-2008, 12:55 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 440
Originally Posted by N5139
EDITED for maturity's sake:
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
I don't mean to rant, but I do want to make a statement. Not unlike many of my counterparts in this industry, I too slugged it out with low wages and high responsibility before attaining my goal. And building my time via the civilian route I was not obligated to fulfill any type of commitment prior to leaving - the decision was totally left up to me.
I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in the industry, especially to those who are flying much and earning less. However, when it comes to the private sector you are worth either what you negotiate (if in a union), or you agree before accepting the job that the pay is worth your time and effort for the services you provide.
10-07-2008, 12:59 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 440
The point of the story is that some senior airline pilots like this douchebag are the most smug and bitter people I've encountered in this line of work [reserves]. I now fully understand why the profession is doomed and why from a labor point of view your peers are your worst enemies.
I am a 121 pilot for a major, and I agree 100% with your sentiments.
While not everyone feels this way, there does seem to be some who forget that there is a world outside of the airliner cockpit. Is the money good? You bet, but that is the only reason I do it. I'm an opportunist first, pilot second. And I'll further it by saying that being pilot defines what I do as opposed to who I am. Many of my friends and peers have that reversed. It doesn't make them bad people by any means, but it does shorten their perspective on things.
10-07-2008, 01:05 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 825
Originally Posted by N5139
EDITED for maturity's sake:
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
Wow, maybe I came across too strong, seeing that I'm a GS-10 right now. I am specifically referring specifically to certain employees who work under DHS and a plethora of other agencies who aren't worth their weight in sand. I do apologize if you counted yourself in my broad statement, as I had no intent to incorporate you. To be more poignant, I'm just saying it's a shame that some guy at DOT who literally does nothing all day pulls in a 13 while pilots - who are depended upon daily to make their inane showtimes - can barely pay the rent.
Deadweights are not exclusive to your side of the government. It is a common understanding on my side of the world that 10% of the full timers do 90% of the work and that's some of the perceived negatives of ART jobs; still in my humble estimation, from an opportunity cost point of view, your family is still better off having you as a GS-10 (and I think you know this) coping with your GS-13 deadweight nemesis on a daily basis than flying the line today in the airline sector. I know I find govt work the only venue where I'm competitively compensated for my knowledge and time vested, the private sector is truly a joke these days with the exception of health care and energy.
10-07-2008, 01:09 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 116
Zep,
I agree with you, but I'm trying to focus more on the Government's way of paying people than the poor negotiating executed by pilot "groups," which I consider an oxymoron due to the complete lack of solidarity I witnessed in the 121 world.
I want to qualify this, as I certainly don't mean to paint a broad stroke:
There is no effective means of evaluation within SOME aspects of G employment. Certain series of jobs will allow you to slide on up to a GS-13 without any means of scrutiny, while the guy doing the same job in the private sector is being scrutinized quarterly and knows that if he/she isn't productive, they'll be summarily terminated based on performance. The annual evaluations are a complete joke in the Federal system. How does a DHS TSA Aviation TSI deserve an $80,000+ salary for wandering around a ramp? These positions need to be reviewed and re-classified.
I agree with you, but I'm trying to focus more on the Government's way of paying people than the poor negotiating executed by pilot "groups," which I consider an oxymoron due to the complete lack of solidarity I witnessed in the 121 world.
I want to qualify this, as I certainly don't mean to paint a broad stroke:
There is no effective means of evaluation within SOME aspects of G employment. Certain series of jobs will allow you to slide on up to a GS-13 without any means of scrutiny, while the guy doing the same job in the private sector is being scrutinized quarterly and knows that if he/she isn't productive, they'll be summarily terminated based on performance. The annual evaluations are a complete joke in the Federal system. How does a DHS TSA Aviation TSI deserve an $80,000+ salary for wandering around a ramp? These positions need to be reviewed and re-classified.
