I recently graduated from college in May and I am at a crossroads right now. Maybe some advise from these forums might help me.

I work as a CFI (~400 hours) and have begun doing a little work as a skydive pilot. I graduated with a Aerospace Engineering degree and did all my flight training in school. For most of the past few years I was leaning toward going into the airlines. However, my experiences and talk with other professionals since graduation have made me question this goal alot. I am trying to figure out which path I want to go. The truth is right now, if someone offered me an airline or engineering job, I would take either. Since I am young (23) I could easily switch back after a year if I did not like it. But even engineers are not in demand right now (certainly not aerospace ones).

If I would give up the idea of career flying, It might mean going to graduate school, or possibly some years in the military to prepare for civilian engineering job afterward. If I wanted to become an airline pilot, I would just keep doing what I am right now.

So I ask the airline pilot forums do they have any advise or pointers for me to send me along my path? Much appreciated.

 

The career ebbs and flows. I think you'll see it on the way back up with age 65 ending and the recession ending (hopefully). To be a happy airline pilot, it's best if you love to travel and really enjoy flying as a job.

My career had ups and down for the first ten years. The second ten years have been successful beyond my wildest dreams. YYMV. Ebb and flow.

My feelings about this site is that it's pretty negative. It's an anonymous message board with a bunch of pilots....what do you expect. People, in general, like to complain a lot more than compliment. And you're posting this at the "leaving the career" forum looking for a balanced answer?

In any case, don't forget there are flying jobs outside the airlines. I have a good friend who got the degree, worked his way up through 135 freight and decided to go air ambulance and stay away from the airlines. He's got a great job he likes with decent pay, home a lot, well maintained equipment, and a great schedule.

Lastly, you never really need to "give up on a flying career" just because you go to grad school or whatever. You could give it all to civil engineering and/or go military and still instruct/build time on the side. This would help you to jump back into flying if things turn around to a point you find acceptable. If not, you have a solid backup you can stick with. Like you say, you are young. That's the best thing you have going for you.

 

Welcome to APC, Flyer. I have an AE degree as well and can definitely relate to your career quandary. You are correct the aerospace industry is in poor form these days, and it may be a while before it rebounds from the slump. The big question for you is, how much do you want fly? If on a ten point scale you are toward the 7-10 range, I would join the military as a flight training candidate on manned aircraft. This is easier said than done and there are many things to know about the path, but the idea is to generate turbine PIC time and thus make yourself a strong candidate for major airline flying when you eventually get out. Of course our nation needs aviators and an equally good reason for doing this is patriotism, but I believe the chances are somewhat slim for getting a manned pilot slot these days and you may only be able to get an Air National Guard slot with all the competition. It also will take some time (a year or more) to get started, so bear that in mind.

If military aviation is not possible due to physical limitations or something then I would think about engineering much more seriously. Without that military flight time you are at a huge disadvantage, you are going to be not very competitive to the airlines and you will invariably face a long, hard, slow, grinding struggle to get to a good job flying for a major airline. Rather than do that, I would stay in engineering. Think about using your engineering as a way to fund further flight training, and build the credentials to get on flying aircraft demos, aircraft production flight tests, or experimental aircraft testing. I have been doing flight testing, flight test engineering, flight test engineering support, and so on for the last few years. I has been a bumpy road since the recession cost me one job and seriously threatens another, but these jobs still exist and will always be around. I fly in my spare time, flight instruct, and so on. It is not an ideal flying situation but it is good enough. I do not have any serious turbine time and that is my weak point. I should have gone into the military when I was young and if I had I would have the turbine time now. I am thinking about taking another year off engineering to fly heavy (-er) aircraft just to build turbine time at this point. So, if you go into aerospace engineering wanting fly without any turbine time it is going to be a long haul although I have seen a few guys jump past the turbine PIC requirement occasionally. But don't count on it.

If you place yourself lower on the 10 point scale than around 7, I would not even think about flying either in the military or in the airlines. Try and get a job at Boeing, make kids, buy a Bonanza, and be happy. Engineering will come back in a few years and it has always been a good life. The problem with it is how boring it is, so you will have to either be one of these peaceful people who does not need much adventure in life, or else you will have to be a weekend warrior like me and keep your sanity by flying like a madman on weekends. Just my two cents worth. Good luck.

DE- glad to see you.

 

I want to fly, but to justify it as a career, you to absolutely love it because you have to give up so much. Being gone 18-20 days a month is almost unimaginable to me. AH!

If I could find a 1-2 month king air type gig, that would be ideal. Or even buy/rent an airplane and go fly IFR. Bring the fun back into flying. (Instructing has been getting to me. I yearn to actually touch the controls!)

Military aviation is a long shot. I have about 20/500 vision and would require eye surgery then a year of waiting. Then of course I could sign the papers and then they tell me that they don't have need for me as a pilot, or I have some weird heart condition so I cant fly. If I did military, I would do flight officer or perhaps nuclear engineering then get out and try to get employed by Boeing or some other aerospace company.

 

Plan for the worst and you will not be disappointed. 20 days gone a month. Low wages and little respect. If you are comfortable with those terms then flying might be for you. From that starting point you can then afford to then hope for the best.

I would not let that education go to waste in the flight deck if I were you.

Skyhigh

 

If you see yourself as an airline pilot at some point, I can't emphasize enough that military pilot background is a huge advantage in the highly competitive airline pilot market later on. Even if its helos, as long as it is a manned aircraft. Just be aware of that. It is definitely worth the perhaps unlikely payoff of success in obtaining military training to put up with a lot of challenges up front. I have a pal who was a second leuitenant scheduled for air force flight training good to go when he found out he had a slight color failure in one eye that would hardly affect anything in a thousand years. He was heart broken of course, but he would still say it was worth the attempt. I can put you in touch with him if you like.

 

Honestly, I would look elsewhere career wise, it has been a huge disappointment thus far. I can't stomach when people tell me I have to pay my dues, I am 30 and have been paying them for 11 years now, of which I have spent 5+ years flying as an airline pilot and have yet to make what a garbage man in NYC makes, it's a disgrace and has made me bitter towards airline flying, and FWIW, airline flying is not fun, nor is it glamorous

 

Frankly, I only think the military route is a good choice now if you want to primarily fly in the military. The Air Force is what, a 12 year commitment? 10 years for the Navy/Marines? At that point the airlines would be a paycut and you'd only be 8-10 years away from a retirement. You mentioned helos, if you don't have fixed wing turbine PIC time, your helo time is pretty much worthless for the airlines. I flew with a few former blackhawk pilots at colgan, they had to get their time at a regional just like any civilian guy. I have an uncle that was a navy helo pilot, he works in management for GE now. He didn't want to go from the Navy to a $19,000 regional salary.

My dad is an SWA capt and a former Navy pilot. He used to push the military route for me, but he only had a 5 year commitment and was out before he was 30. Now he says that just about everyone new he flys with is from a civilian background.

 

I have to agree. The civilian route is emerging as the main path to the airlines these days. However being a retired military pilot at 42 makes regional pay a whole lot more tolerable. Still I can not say that the military is much of an advantage as it once was.

Skyhigh

 

What prompted my earlier statement was simply the fact that the pilot market is glutted with non-mil guys who are a dime a dozen at the regionals. Most are completely competent pilots, that's not the point. Being indistinguishable from a pack of applicants is a sure formula for bondage to a low-paying, unrewarding job. My point is that in a competitive market you need to have a trump card and military can be that card. I am not in a position to say how to go about using military flight time to propel a civilian career.