How I left
 

Hello everybody,

I would like to share, how i left... for the moment.

Some people leave the career by choice or some not, by being furloughed.

I left because I did a kind of b u r n o u t.

It's long story so I will not detail. But mainly, i was young expat in asia for a LCC.
I was kind of person passionnate, my life was only aviation.
After a big delusion I think, and being far away from my land, I was depressed, i had insomnias, and needed serious help. (therapy, medecines)

So I came back.
I felt empty, and a lot frustrated. I lost all the passion.
I was someone who always read aviation, many books, read again my atpl notes etc;
Today I just can not anymore. I don't know what's happening.
For 4 months, I can not open any books related to aeronautic.

It's very difficult to admit it. :( I feel like a weak person.
Because I knew it, I knew that being a pilot was being an expat.
Seems I could not adapt myself.
Plus I was stressed too. (management, schedule etc).

I was wondering if I was alone in that case ?

Will I come back to fly as f/o ? I don't even know. :( Today I just feel neutral, empty, and feel like I need to open my mind to new things maybe.
Im alone, and don't have friends (or mostly are pilots) but I don't have a normal life since befre that, my life was only my books and my objective (being pilot).

Thank you for your sympathy.

What you're feeling is understandable. Is this job for everyone? Absolutely not. For me, there's nothing else I've ever wanted to do. I've lost some of the passion I once had. Mainly due to management, being away from my family and friends does take it's toll. Overall, I love what I do but it is just a job. If I were in your shoes, there's no doubt I would go into another field. Maybe at some point you'll get back into flying for fun. If not, you wouldn't be the first and certainly not the last to remove yourself from the flight deck. Good luck.

Slats,
Yes I guess I have to see others activities. Maybe just to re-activate the aviation bug. As far as I know, is my brain just can not stand more.

The most difficult part is the look from some members of my family or some friends (in aeronautic). Same remarks "are you crazy, don't you see you are the luckiest guy etc etc"
Poeple just don't understand a pilot leaving the job. Especialy when they knew me before, talking all the time about it, and was happy.
So, I just stay home, being afraid to face people who know me and asking me news.
Sure, for many people, or pilot, I have been very lucky. The problem is that unless living quite the same situation, many can not see how painful it could be. :/
I just know now, that people are interested in us by "what we do" not "who we are".

Go soaring.

Cheers,

Propfails2FX

You invest an awful lot in this career to getting all the certifications and licenses required, and usually the entry into the career is fueled by passion and love. Add all of that up with perceived "glamor" and the "fun" of the job, and many folks will think you have a dream job, and as such have a hard time understanding why you'd leave the job behind.

I had the same "experience" with family and friends, the question was always "So you're quitting?" or "You won't be a pilot anymore?". Unless you simply enjoy sulking away from the public, you'll eventually have to come to terms with your decision, heck, I had friends questioning my decision even though I doubled my pay, earned better benefits, increased my quality of life, and was getting to sleep in my own bed every night.

Come to terms with your decision, or, get back into the life. There really aren't any other options out there, so there's little point in lamenting over it. The only one who can tell you if your decision was the right one is you.

Bugy,

I read another post by you in the health section where you explain experiencing intense anxiety when faced with the prospect of being paired with a difficult Captain - one that yells, and / or makes your trip a living hell.

Most people figure out how to deal with this, but I agree it sucks when you must devote so much energy into coping with a difficult individual, especially when they are running the ship.

When I upgraded to Captain I felt a great wave of relief in that I could now set the tone in the cockpit.

To be sure, there are just as many random difficult cases in the right seat, but they don't get to dictate so they are immeasurably more easy to deal with.

I know you still love flying - you have to because of the devotion you've given to it.

Have you ever thought about a "single pilot" gig? Probably doesn't pay nearly as well, but might make you more happy.

Whatever you decide - don't waste another day doing ANYTHING that makes you feel as bad as you are describing. It isn't worth it.

Best of luck to you my friend.

Hello all,


I did think about a single pilot job. Actually it was the first thing that crossed my mind after being a bit better.
But as I'm in europe, there are not so many jobs compared to US.
But yes, for sure, I would be happier, at least for a while, until I am ready to come back in a team. :)

The thing is I was so passionnate that I built a life only around aviation. I never hang out really (with friends), I had a lonely life, hitting my books. Everything was related to aviation. Even my friends.
Consequently, now, im single, alone and need to build a real social life and having different life's opinion etc.
I was living in a bubble.
So now I want to study something else, have another new skill (in case) because don't have any degree, so I'm quite stucked right now (fortunately i don't have wife and kids).
I want to meet new friends and start from "zero".

Of course, beside that, I will keep my licence, and maybe one day, will be ready to ride the horse again. :)

I was so focused into planes and in my goal, that I did not see all nice things around me.


Flynavj, yes, this situation actually is quite interesting, because i learn a lot about myself, and makes me take a decision. The most difficult part in any such situation is that we are actually "alone" to take a decision.

And we are quite anxious about the futur, but now, I just think I will a do a big step in my life and I can learn new things. Learning and opening my mind to other things does not mean I'm giving up aviation.

Thank you a lot for your support :)

(btw don't pay attention about mistakes english is my 2nd language)

I had a feeling it was a second language, but don't worry...your 2nd language english skills are better than my 2nd language ANY skills! I think you're doing fine. Good luck!

Hey all,

to give news, I start getting better, but my strengh is a bit weak maybe.
I did a b u r n o u t.

The airline asked me what happened exactly (seems there is no private life about medical in Asia). Anyway I played the honesty card.

I explained to some people in high management, what I had.
And I proposed them some solutions if I come back and if they would give me second chance. For exemple, why not a part time flight schedule, to start step by step.

I did not get any reply yet.

In Asia, they do not know the medical secret, so... I just acted as their culture is.

Maybe I did wrong ? Maybe they will not take me back for ever.

Well, I explained that it could be interesting for them, for the airline, because I may be the first case, and not sure I will be the only one.
So, it's an experience for everybody to learn from it and how to deal with employees suffering suddenly of a b u r n o u t.

After all, why I should hide myself ? :/ we are all humans.

I explained that it never caused any problems during my flights. Only after the flight, when I came back to my home. Mostly , the problems happen during nights (insomnia etc).

Well.... I will see if I made a mistake to tell all the truth.

Maybe I am naive, but if I were in management, I will not ignore an employee for this kind of problem. I will do my best to re-integrate him slowly, in the best conditions I could.


thanks

bugy,

Don't doubt your decision, regardless of high management's answer. The bottom line is that the flying you were doing was clearly putting a high amount of stress/fatigue on you. That will accelerate your aging & damage your health. Look at it this way. By leaving your LCC, you have forced yourself to make friends, communicate with people outside of aeronautics, & question what truly makes you happy. Being happy is a large part of what makes us healthy. So if you take a few years off from flying and decide that aeronautics is what makes you happy, then you can do it again.

Don't take years off of your life because you are so stressed, fatigued, & miserable. You now have a chance to meet people & perhaps make a family.

Good luck in your new adventure. :)

I completely agree with Johnso29! Good post.

Hey

Thank you very much for your replies.

Johnso29, yes I see what you mean.

To share my feelings, it's a really frustrating situation.

As I am better, I feel to come back, plus I have a bond contract :(

But that's true, due to all the stress before, I am bit afraid to "fall down" again...

I was thinking, to come back to finish my contract, or just fly a few years (2 or 3) and come back.

Here im unemployed, and over there i could work.

But for sure, I have to control myself. I was thinking about aging etc and I completely agree.

In the same time I was thinking that there is a another reason that I was so tensed, maybe because I was suddenly far away from my country (it was my first experience)... I don't know yet.

In the eventuality I fly again, I have to make sure I feel better. The only thing, is how can I be sure... I need to live it again to know.

The problem is I just lost the passion I had. I think I may like the job, but I don't see it as I used to see before. So my motivation now, would be only for having an activity, and saving money, and later on, make another project maybe.


For the moment I take time for myself. I feel better but I still feel a bit weak.

I am the kind of person, who thought I did not have any limits... and now I discover myself... it's quite a schock.

Thanks a lot for your support, I really appreciate.

Everyone at some point loses the "passion" they once had for the job. But it's like that with everything. It's funny how we as human beings are never satisfied. I work in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles, I get to meet celebrities all the time and I've pretty much seen it all. The industry everyone dreams to be in, aspiring to be famous, or be near famous people etc....but after being here for 10 years....I hate absolutely everything about it, the people, the backstabbing, how fake people are...etc....and I keep wanting to leave that and focus on aviation....and I come to realize so many things of what people are saying is exactly what I feel about my current career.....which has nothing to do with aviation.

I think aviation is what you make of it......at the end of the day, whether your sit on the right or the left seat......every flight is brand new, no two flights are ever the same, and you're doing something that no matter how underpaid or under appreciated you may feel, you accomplished, on your own, through hard work, passion and dedication. That says something about yourself.

Great post. I agree whole heartedly. Thanks for sharing an outsider's perspective.

you can teach as well or do other things... what about having a girlfriend? and take care of her instead to take care of your little ego instead?

you lost passion,? we all lose passion one day.
I lost passion too, but I would be happy to take your job.
this is life my friend, suck it up deep in your goat and feel the pain now. life with no pain or gratitude would be boring.

you have given all for your aviation career and didn't get back what you wanted... so what do you want now? happiness, nice cars, lot of money?

we all want everything and that s the problem in our life, we are never happy we what we have.
now maybe you realize that aviation will not bring you happiness and it would be time to see how you can make people happy instead to think only about you.

take a break from aviation, do other things and don't think this world are expecting something from you. stop to expect things in return.

Hey Usapilot,

At first i was thinking if your message was sarcastic or not...but even if it was, actually , you are quite right..or I would say, I do agree with you.

To reply:

if you would be happy to take my job, I would be happy to give you. Indeed if I can make someone happy, yes, I'd happy too then. Unfortunately, what a pity we can not even "sell" our licence as taxi driver can do ! (at least in Europe, I don't know about usa...)

All I want now, it's jut hapiness and not giving my soul for just a job at the end. That's all. Of course enough money to live on my own...that's obvious.
I am not a materialist person at all as I met in many cockpit.

And yes, I do agree that we are never so satisfied...but anyway, I don't see it as a wrong thing. After all, we can be rich by our culture and skills instead of money.

In my case, it's not about satisfaction mostly, I just never expected to have a depress and not standing the lifestyle. After all it was my passion so I never thought (not even a single second ) the "secondaries effect".
And as all of us know, let's say that the forum are full of negativity, so I never read darkside of the job in the forums.
Now I feel kind of relieved that I am not the only one.

and yes, exactly, actually I am thinking about a career in a social field to help others (at my little level as I don't expect much from life), but I just want to be a bit more useful.
Initially we de think more about ourselves, that's completely true.
But I would say it's not really our fault. We are slave of our passion or any passion.

I even thought about environment as I am sensitive about that.

Burning tons of fuel, just to bring people (for hobbies, or holidays or business), was quite unjustified. But eh... we can not even change that but at least for the moment i don't participate in it.

Yes, now I really don't expect much. I always take a step back to anything new.

About the girlfriend, yes I really would like to have one and still looking for her...

I have found this article about a pilot quitting after environment concerns, I really admire him.

A former airline pilot speaks out | Aviation Justice

Thanks for your message.

"and reduce their impact on the Earth, and are currently in the midst of a remarkable global bicycle touring adventure"

I enjoyed looking at the beautiful pictures of this person sitting peacefully and enjoying the environment - - and then noticed that I didn't see a whole lot of unprocessed equipment with him. No wheels made out of rock or wood carved from the sharpened bone of a Moose he killed with his sling. No - instead I see a PILE FULL of products made from oil and oil by products, or equipment made with the use of oil/fossil fuels, etc....

I'm glad that he quit his job and is working on bettering the environment. We need people like that. I just wonder how much harder his job would be if he wasn't able to use any products or tools that enlarged his carbon-footprint.

I think the point is he's reduced his carbon footprint a lot more than many of us. He's riding a bike to travel and he's not using as much oil as he would if he was in a car. Besides riding a bike cross a country is pretty darn hard if you ask me, so I don't think he's worried about how much "harder" it should feel for him. Good for him.

He should because how much harder would it be for him to ride that bike (made possible by oil), without wheels (made possible by oil), and of course keep safe and warm with all of his protective gear/clothing (made possible by oil) - and delivered to his place of purchase by shipping (either air, land or sea).
Yep - good for him, but not quite holier-than-thou look at what I am doing to save the planet.

Burned out
 

It is one thing to be bored at work, it happens. In addition is common to loose passion for a once exciting career. The hardship comes when you realize that most careers become boring and loose the fun but still pay a living wage, provide a lifestyle that accommodates friends and family, and does not require the cost of a house to get trained and educated.

Work as an accountant sux but you get to have a life too.

Skyhigh

Well geez. Count me OUT. Not only do I get to have a life being an airline pilot, but I LOVE my job. Looks like I'm a double winner. :D

John
 

You are a winner John and everyone knows that. You got into the regionals at a fantastic time, upgraded quickly and were able to move onto a good legacy airline while still young enough to hopefully have it mean something. You are the guy who everyone expects to be but falls far short due to events beyond our control. You are a poster boy lottery winner who is promoting gambling to everyone else. The humble thing to do is to realize how lucky and rare you are and to politely abstain from such arrogant comments and encouraging future generations from marching into the grist mill.

Parting comments: The rest of us have been kicked to the curb by aviation repeatedly. It is possible that your turn has not come yet. The longer you spend in comfort and affluence the harder it will be when the bad times hit. The older I get the more appreciative I am for the hardships I struggled with early on. It diversified my skills set and motivated me to get out sooner and start over while I was still young enough to have a life to salvage. There is nothing more sad than an unemployed middle-aged legacy airline pilot who is on the street after a decade or two of seniority stagnation and holds the realization that there is no way for them to save themselves.

Skyhigh

Sky.......man.......I guess I should've put a ;) face on the end of that post as well. I was attempting to make a joke.

We have had plenty of conversations in the past. I was just having some fun. Clearly I touched a nerve. Sorry. :)

PS-I hope your family is well. How is your youngest doing?

John
 

John,

Thank you and I am sorry if I over reacted. We all are fine. Business is good as a result I have not had much time to visit APC in a while. As always I hope you are well.

Skyhigh

No worries. I should've been a little more obvious with my attempt at humor. Great to hear you're all doing well. My family and I are great too. Glad business is going well.

Take care. :)

When you were working as an expat, did they make you feel like hired help? Or generally appreciate you?

Different strokes for different folks. I got out but I don't fault anyone who likes where they are. The life of an airline pilot is not for me. Your mileage may vary.

Sorry for my late...

as an expat, they treated me well.
well... I would say, they treated pilots like a chess game.

The most difficult persons that treated us badly were the mechanics. They told us many times "get out of the cockpit ! " badly... the felt superiority.
As young, I was quite surprised about this reaction as I always thought that mechanics and pilots work hand in hand. Seeems that was not the case.
But I guess this behaviour was mostly because we were expat.



now, as I am better, I consider to fly again, but just to save money.

My parents are into a real estate, and I was thinking to do the same.

so, I have been thinking these days, to fly again if i can, in my airline (if they agree) and take it as if it was a "cool summer job" .
I save money and be in real estate.

I will let you know when I take the decision. It's just a thought, honestly I am not fully ready yet. All what happened to me, have consequences on my health... just be careful guys. It could happen to anybody. I never thought that it would happen to me.

cheers

he states this on his facebook



this is some serious dude to admire!

Long time I open my thread...here some good news since.

I am a lot better, actually I recovered.
When I came back I was sick and did not have choice, that is why I hesitate by then to fly again as a professionnal...

So, now I made my mind up and deciced to change career.

I am very happy, actually personnally, I don't miss flying, just sometimes in a smal plane, but I do not miss the low cost spirit (to remind, I was FO in a LCC in asia).

What happened to me has been a real revelation for me.
Before I thought That I could only live if I fly and now, I am aware that I live even better.
I still keep my licence of course. I did not fly in a flying club yet, but soon I should. I have a friend who owns a tailwheel a/c and he told me, that when I want, I contact for a flight.

Today I study again, sciences, and found my career choice :). I would like to become an audiologist (after met some of them) as I love sciences and human being care.

I am still young, so no problem for that change.

Other thing, I met a new g/f and really in love with her and we plan for commitment.

Well, only good news. I feel more relaxed and in peace with myself.
I do more sports too which is good for being cool.

Will I fly again (as pro) in the futur ? Maybe or not...I don't ask myself more questions. Life brings surprises.

But for sure, I will never ever sell my soul to the devil. Meaning I would fly again only if the Ts and Cs are good enough for me and my g/f.

Each case is different though.
Personnally I was really passionnate and I know that I dreamed too much. Maybe a lack of maturity.... Then I had a big dellusion.
And I was not aware about the lifestyle too. It made me very stressed and tired.

For some people it is ok for others not. It is just about being honest with ourself and accept it.

When I got my burnout, I felt guilty and always asked myself, why me ? why me ?
I conclude that simply, the lifestyle was not necessary for me. The most difficult part is to accept it and to know our own limits.

Funny because actually, as I said my g/f, if I had not burnout, never we would have met :D
And today I discovered others passions.

Good luck to all.
Just listen to yourself. And do not compare yourself with others. That's your life. ;)