Aging and commuting
 

Just curious about pilots 50 and over whether they are commuting anymore and if it is impacting their health.
Please share opinions and experiences.

It's all how you approach it. It means more days away from home. It's tough when you end up commuting off line on 50 seat RJs when you started out with commuting on your own air line.
I take it one commute and one leg at a time and don't try to cut it to the nub and it's not so bad.
That said, if you don't have to commute it's better to live in base. I would never commute to chase a particular seat or aircraft. I commute because I love where I am. I try not to stress about it and I don't push the limits. That can age you.
I will be happy when I can retire and not do it any more.

Oh man what a great question. I'm interested in the answers. I have family that's commuted for over 30 years seemingly stress free. I did it for eight and thought it was going to litterally kill me.

One issue I have is the inability to bring healthy food. I commute offline on AA and three bags -rollerboard, computer bag, and lunch box - gets the stink eye and I'm told to consolidate. I'm a writer on the side so I need the computer every other week. Since my rollerboard is taken nearly 95% of the time (even on an A321) I have to decide: computer bag or healthy food (not putting the computer in my rollerboard and checking it). The lunchbox gets left behind most times. On my own carrier I could bag drag like a Sherpa, no problem. On AA? Not a chance.

My health concern is commuting home after a redeye. Seattle to JFK. Cab to LGA. Flight to DFW. Uber home 12 miles. Total time of sustained wakefulness each time: roughly 27-30 hours.

Age is 47.

After a trip like that your gonna sleep anyway. Why not get some real sleep at crashpad/hotel and then fly home so youll be still awake to see your family? I used to use fedex to squeeze in that trip home but i was so tired i went straight to bed and slept till afternoon. I got the same results without killing myself by just staying the night in base and leaving in the morning.

FAA allows for commuting crew to carry 3 bags. I carry a large "kit" full of electronics, my headse, tablet and computer plus a cooler and my roll-a-board. Never had anyone say anything. I bring breakfast and lunch for the whole trip if I can.

Commuting has gone from a necessity due to base closing to folks chasing flying around. Never ceases to amaze me how many guys live in hub cities, but commute elsewhere for the 'prestige' of long haul. Fly all nt then commute at plus 50 years old? Eh better them then me. Driving to/from work and being done is priceless.

I'm in that category, and I commute with a LOT of guys that fit that bill.

That said, it is a one-leg, hourish flight.

None of us seem the worse for wear from it. There's several that I see regularly that are almost 65.

It was FAR more stressful a couple of decades ago when I was a new-hire, doing a double-leg (and sometimes triple) off-line commute, to sit reserve. (Driven by circumstances at the time more than choice).

Today, I could be on bigger equipment or add another stripe if I did that again....not interested.

Short answer: a short commute with frequent flights, to be senior in BES, is not bad...not bad at all.

I'm over 50, have commuted for almost 20 years (fairly long distance). I find it's pretty easy at FedEx, I mostly get deadheads on both ends if I can. Usually fly first class, so it's painless for the most part, getting confirmed tickets. It generally does not add additional time onto my trip. Sometimes I have to jumpseat into or out of Memphis, but we have direct flights to my home, so it's not too much of a hassle. If I had to go in/out a day early, I would not be happy being away from home for that extra time.

It's what you make of it and is managing expectations. I commute on a 3 hour mainline flight as both long call reserve and line holder. I honestly don't stress about it. It's helpful that I can reserve the Jumpseat, but I actually don't have to that often. Going to work, if I don't make it, I don't care, I'll go back home. Coming home I try to get home ASAP, but plan on the worst case of taking the late flight home.

I've heard your type of comments from a few Captains before. They are always from "anti-commuter" types who moved their families from their hometown when their base closed on them. It's usually some anacdotal completely subjective point they heard from their AME. "Be glad you don't commmute, it takes 10 years off these guys!" It's their way of feeling good about themselves for moving after a base closure.

As for after Red Eyes, most guys I fly with don't nap at all after red eyes (some very little before too). I try for a 5 hour nap before, then I sleep on the commute home and stay up until bed time. Let's face it, they are tough on the body no matter what you do.

I eat in moderation, and work out every day on the road. I actually feel better now then before I had this job. YMMV

The FAA does not allow that. The FAA has nothing to do with the number of carry on bags per passenger. Each airline sets its own policies. Most airlines allow 3 bags for their crew members but not for other airlines. Bottom line if you commute it's best to stick with one carry on and a personal item.

(a) No certificate holder may allow the boarding of carry-on baggage on an airplane unless each passenger's baggage has been scanned to control the size and amount carried on board in accordance with an approved carry-on baggage program in its operations specifications. In addition, no passenger may board an airplane if his/her carry-on baggage exceeds the baggage allowance prescribed in the carry-on baggage program in the certificate holder's operations specifications.

I'm especially interested in the guys of that age group who go through time zone changes in the commute. It has to have an effect on lifespan? Thoughts?

How is commuting through time zones different than doing a 3 or 4 day trip through time zones? I commute from Mountain to Eastern time zone. If possible I stay on Mountain in terms of dinner and sleep, but that's not always possible. I do sleep 8 hours every night, even if it means going to bed at 1900. Red eyes are the exception, but I actually think I have an advantage over guys living in the east coast on that. To me it's just staying up really late, we get done at 4:00 Mountain 6:00 Eastern.

Seems like you've already made up your mind on this topic and are looking for reassurance or something. Yes, if you can live in base it's better, no doubt. It'd be nice, but doesn't work for everyone. My kids moved a lot and now I'm giving them a straight run through Middle and High School in an area they love, near extended family. After that, we might very well move, or more likely will summer on a nice lake somewhere and winter in the Colorado mountains, best of both worlds. It's great to have choices!

Also, I'm not over 50 yet.

:DAgreed; however, the risk is losing an extra day if for whatever reason you can't get out early the next day. Say, Friday or Sunday oversold situation. I guess the way I looked at it was I'd rather be useless at home than refreshed in the crashpad. Either way it's killing me slowly.:eek:

Real sleep and crashpad? Oxymoron I believe.

Why 50 as a threshold? I've seen a lot of out of shape 30 somethings and very fit 60 year olds. I believe lifestyle has a lot to do with adapting to the commute. Hydration, nutrition, sleep, exercise, smoking, and yes, booze consumption.

Exactly, and not just adapting to the commute, but the job in general...

I'm already where I'm staying until retirement and thankfully not commuting. This is for research for a paper.

There was a guy who commuted from Denmark to SFO when he was at VX. I think he's on this forum :)

I have to disagree here. Your example is the exception and not the rule. Its like the youtubers with the video of a cat and dog napping on eachother peacefully. NASA and the AMA have extensive proof that 50 is a valid threshold of where the physiological breakdown for the average person begins.

IMO he is superhuman. Or loves airlining.

Physiological breakdown how? I think you nailed it when you said average. Mean, median, mode, variability, etc. all matter. The fact that the cancer rate is X doesn't imply I'll get cancer. Does the AMA have studies on airline pilots or the general population? So we're dealing with similar but not exact sample populations (with age being the only correlate)? Speaking of, what's the statistical power of those studies. If I'm on your Ph.D committee you're going to have to do a lot more convincing.:D:D:D

"Proof." A very, very strong and confident statement.

Look, I'm just trying to get some experiences here, not get in a debate (I never debate without a little bourbon...it loosens me up to listen better). The data provided by NASA studies are performed by people smarter than you and me, are thorough, and pretty darn conclusive. Their data does reference pilots vs the average population and the term breakdown was my term, not theirs (I'm trying to keep it layman's terms). Let's not treat this like advanced snowflakes whose feelings of sensitivity about age and mortality are a factor. You know how quickly rockets will fly sideways in these forums.
All I am doing is seeking the experience from commuting from professional pilots who commute before and after work, especially across multiple time zones (which often results in shorter overnights before the assignment begins than they have during the assignment). And to see the results of how it affects them as they age.
The simple fact is that if you take a group of 100 pilots age 30 and a group of 100 pilots age 50, there WILL be a difference in health and stamina stacked rather well in favor of the 30-somethings. Anyone who disputes this is in denial or just has to do a little studying. I don't care about people's red herrings, their little felings or whatever. Just the facts, the facts and nothing but the facts. There are 60 year-old men who can bench press more than many high school kids, does that mean we should put them on the gridiron to play football with them? Let's keep things factual and real here.
Now, back to the issue at hand....

Commuting
 

"I don't advise it, you understand, but it can be done. (Provided you have the right stuff, you miserable pudknocker)."

--Tom Wolfe
The Right Stuff (1979)

I quit early, I notice a good many of my commuting F/O's turned commuting "A"s are no longer with us. FWIW.

Good topic, OP. I just turned fifty recently and I'm commuting from Pacific to Eastern and back again obviously. I honestly don't stress the commute at all. So, aside from the lack of sleep if I choose to catch a mid-afternoon flight which arrives at 2200ish in base for an earlier show the following day, I don't feel like it has any effect at all. I'm probably taking a year or two off the back end by spending so much time at altitude and breathing bleed air. It really boils down to management for me. I'lll always have a place of my own in my base whether an investment property or a rental. And I diligently keep an eye on weather. I plan out my trips based on loads the day before. In eleven years I've never once used a commuter clause or had to call off sick because I was stuck and couldn't get back. The only stressful commute I've ever had was at the hands of a notorius Capt. at a certain West Coast airline who flat out refuses to carry jumpseaters. Even his own. So what should have been a 2145 arrival turned into a ten hour airport sit, followed by a redeye, then a second flight instead of my usual direct, followed by a shower and some packing and a long day at work. Thanks brother! I really enjoyed that experience.

One other thing about me is I eat very healthy and love sports. I'm an active outdoorsman and get a well above average amount of cardiovascular fitness training per week along with at least a couple of strength training sessions. I'm certain that that helps with stress and dampening the physiological and memtal effects of a long commite.

I used to commute PHX to IAD. It wasn't bad (pre 9/11 days) because planes were not often overbooked because loyalty programs weren't very big back then and big planes ruled.
Now with loyalty programs and an A320 being considered a "big" plane, I assume it is tougher. I'm so thankful to not be doing it anymore.

Summed it up tidy didn't they? Goodman & badflap, in style as always. Which isn't to say I'm not impressed with those proclaiming to shrug off the deleterious:) effects a commute piles on the aging road warrior. Packed bare essentials to go out west for a few days skiing late last season. Standing at the gate in the middle of all the commotion & people drama I don't have to deal with anymore, glanced down at my wife. She just looked so small and tired already. 20 years commuting ORD still in her eyes? Then I started mulling over getting the car, pleading for a decent room, lift tickets, boot fitting, $14 overcooked cold hamburgers, $8 beers and of course, doing the whole deal in reverse "if" the wx plays along. Sprang for an awesome breakfast & two bloody Mary's on the way home.

Haha true! The two funniest guys on here (goodman, badflaps) are Delta retirees. These are the guys to have a drink with!

Badflaps be running on decafe and Shirley Temples these days, but as Pogo says; "Sounds toothsome.":)

In my experience sleep depredation is sleep depredation. Being 20 years old doesn't make you immune. Being 50 doesn't make you shrivel up and die. I'd say, for me, I don’t notice much difference between 20 and 50. If anything I'd say it takes slightly longer to recover from commutes now than before. I'd say the same thing about hard exercise. My body can still do the same things, but seems to need a little more recovery time afterwards to get back into hemostasis. Obviously I think there is a lot more difference the older one gets though. There's a reason why pilots are/were forced to retire from 55-65, depending on the time/place.

To a certain point experience can compensate for age, like previous posters alluded to. You learn best practices. You don't get as stressed out. I used to get terribly stressed out about commutting. To the point I'm sure it had a bad physical effect on me. I still don't enjoy commutting, but I've learned to not stress out about what I can't control. If I don't make it it's not the end of the world. Airlines should really plan for that eventuality. If they really wanted me there they would positive space me. You learn to let go.

Some commutes are far better than others.

I have known people who do 3 leg commutes. That would definitely burn a whole day each way.....

I decided that my last x number of years I would stop using the jumpseat. Flights are mostly always full, so having to ride the cockpit is only option, other than buying a seat. We receive a very substantial discount for positive space tickets. Have earned status that allows me to pick my seat on 2 different airlines.

Using miles later this year with award miles in confirmed business class seats.

I was at my last job for almost 30 years, and for virtually all of that time commuted 3/4 of the way across the country. Caught on with my current employer at age 54, and now live in base. The difference not commuting has made in my life is nothing short of astounding. Weight loss, better sleep, general well-being. I used to think the commute was no big deal. And then I stopped doing it.

Bingo!

Commuting for seven years so far. Man, I can't wait to stop.
It's not a big deal, I approach it with a good attitude, and I've been able to rent my own room, have a local car, and generally feel like I sorta "live" in base too. So, it's not really stressful. Yeah, once in a while it goes sideways, but that's aviation.
What bothers me is when I look at my home life, and how much of that time I lose to commuting. I could spend sooo much more time at home if I were living in base.

So what's the problem?
Over the years, I've slowly lost the sense of continuity I had in my "home" life. The wife and I are fine, but the flow from one set of days off to the next for me has been damaged. I feel as if when I get home, I'm starting all over again. What project do I need to do, where is the new stack of bills, who are we seeing tomorrow?
I want that to end, and to feel that I can pick up where I left off, instead of being in the wrong bed, again, over sixty percent of the time.

49 years old, hope to be home based in about two.

Commuted for 15 years and now live in based for a month. Still can't wrap my head around it. I always feel that there is more to do. Although I feel that I'm still making up for commuting that long my body has already reaped the rewards. Lost 5 lbs for no reason and spend 4 more days with family. I'd never commute again even for upgrade.

10 years doing the 2 leg commute for a regional. My benefit airline didn't fly into my home town, so it was always offline. Regional schedules to boot, so my 10 days off a month turned into 6 or less. Definitely aged me more than I would have liked. Never thought of moving because of family situation, so I toughed it out. Now, my 5 hour drive seems like a dream to me! I always go home when I finish a trip. Even though I drive a long way, it is a totally different life.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I can do all of these things!

/winning


(p.s. minus the exercise part)

I commuted for about 9 months at the age of 44/45 when I started at Spirit and it wasn't the commute itself that made me feel old as much as it was the redeye flying that often came with commutable trips. A redeye leaves me reeling for a good day or two afterwards and trying to sleep in a crap-ass hotel between a 0600 trip finish and a 2000 show time was miserable to say the least.

That being said I currently live in base but am considering commuting again at the age of 46 because the base I live in (as well as the rest of our bases) sucks donkey balls.

Would that be DTW, ACY or ORD?

GF

The real problem with commuting is it this, it eats up time that one could be at home.

Consider the best commutes require a 1+ hour drive to the airport, park your car, ride for 1-3 hours in an airplane, and arrive 3 hours before departure time.

At the other end about 1 hour from block in to connecting commute home and reverse the drive to your door step.

The end result is a minimum of 4-5 hours of time from home to work and reverse.

Now include hotels the night before, sitting reserve, eating out, the stress of someone senior to you getting the jump seats and more.

So do us old guys suffer? Yep and so does everyone else.