Wet Sock Smell
 

Does anyone have any official document from Airbus or from your airline on the Airbus wet sock smell dangers they can share? Does anything exist?

Not official Airbus, but lots of stories...
 

Dirty socks or wet dog smell in the plane? It's toxic, say airline workers, World News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

https://aviationtravelwriter.wordpre...gn-for-toxins/

Accident: US Airways B762 near St. Thomas on Jan 16th 2010, odour on board, both flight crew received permanent injuries, captain later died

Haven’t seen anything official other than following the Smoke/Fumes/Avionics Smoke procedure in the QRH. I “heard” Spirit developed a procedure for the wet sock smell from a jumpseater a while back, for what it’s worth.
If you look up “Tricresyl Phosphate” or “Aerotoxic Syndrome” you can find more info on the subject.

Old Boeing engineers just warmed up the duct temp to dry out the separator.

GF

B6 did something about it. Big hoopla about it all.

It’s not wet socks.

It’s a neurotoxin from engine oil getting past the bearings and into the bleed air.

I think manufacturers are trying to come up with detection/mitigation systems. They need to. No telling how many crews have been messed up.

The shame of it is, something should have been done years ago. Boeing and Airbus and engine manufacturers have known about this for decades-and continued to stick with the “wet sock” BS

I’ve been looking, I think ALPA had issued some information with regards to the issue and tracking it. I haven’t found it yet, and I’m also not sure if it was an Endeavor ALPA publication or national.

Wait. So you're saying that the mechanic didn't leave his socks in the air duct?:rolleyes:

I was in the back of a UA 320 and around 10k feet descending there was this horrible smell almost like burning plastic but it only lasted a few seconds. I wonder if this was it.

Do you have any external reference to point to on this for more information? I find this very intriguing. Happy for PMs if you’d prefer.

Yes Spirit has been very aggressive with this. We have a union volunteer who experienced a very bad one a few years ago and has made this his mission. He has done an extraordinary job of educating not only our group but is working with many other groups as well.
Look up Dr. Clement Furlong.

If you are at the gate get off the plane. If you are on the ground open your window. If you are in Flight don your O2 mask. This stuff is terrible for your brain.

Take some time and look up “Tricresyl Phosphate” and “aerotoxic syndrome”.

So if you get a jet that has this issue refuse it.

This law firm is leading the movement for education and prevention.
Pyrolized oil is a definite work hazard for all flight crew.

Michaelis Aviation Consulting

Thanks everyone for the responses. If I read everything correctly here, it sounds like there is no official document or guidance from Airbus, any airline, or ALPA correct?

EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH THIS!

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ated-Cabin-Air

As far as I can find in my research, you are correct. With the exception of Spirit who has implemented an official procedure. These event are actually very common, but we don't hear about them very often because they are underreported. I think many crews simply don't think much of the smell; especially if it is short lived. Occasionally someone gets hurt. I wouldn't be overly concerned, except bran damage is permanent. Guys have lost medicals and even died.

I think airlines and manufactures have mostly brushed this issue under the rug. It's bad press. Watch the video I posted in the post above. It's Eric Tillman of Spirit giving a presentation to APA. It's loaded with tons of good info. I'll link again below.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ated-Cabin-Air

Good info but may have autocorrected on you. His last name is Tellmann.

I commonly sense, what best I can describe as a “solvent” smell, while descending into a humid destination. Is this what we are talking about?

I made a post over in Spirit’s forum asking for comment here.

Yes, it's certainly possible (even probable?). "Fume Events" most often occur when the HP valve opens and they only last for a few seconds. A leaky APU or engine seal allows oil to collect in the bleed ducts. Then when the HP valve opens, that oil is pyrolyzed in the conditioned air ducting and the resultant "wet sock" smell is blasted into the cabin/cockpit depending on bleed system architecture. That "wet sock" smell is actually quite harmful. You may want to consider going to the hospital following an event like that. You should be checked for carbon monoxide exposure as soon as possible. Some of the symptoms of exposure are headaches, blurred vision, impaired cognition, etc...

Definitely watch the video; Eric Tellmann is well versed on the subject. Also, airlines and engine manufacturers are quick to discredit the real dangers due to their liability. Imagine the class action lawsuits coming their direction as this subject continues to gain traction? These companies have known for a very long time of the dangers their systems present to the airline crews and traveling public...it doesn't bode well for their collective futures.
As far as I know, the only airliner that isn't susceptible to fume events is the 787 due to it's pressurization/ air conditioning design (not part of the engine bleed air system).

AeroToxic Association | Supporting those affected by Aerotoxic Syndrome ? The Aerotoxic Association was founded in 2007 by Captain John Hoyte

Looks like the site has been re-worked. They used to have a "What your doctor needs to know" link. I'd have to dig around on the new site, but this is something you must bookmark, IMO.

From Spirit forum.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committ...ated-Cabin-Air

NB Airbus Document
 

From 10:21 until 11:15 into the video presentation, there is discussion of an Airbus document that acknowledges engine oil will leak into the aircraft bleed air system and cause a musty smell. The end of the video has a listing of the References Cited for this Presentation, and the Airbus document information is repeated there as well. The In Service Information (ISI) reference that exists for the narrow body Airbus fleet relating to this issue is:

ISI Ref: 21.00.00018
A/C Type: A318 A319 A320 A321
Topic:
First Issue Date: 07-NOV-2013
Part Number:
Last Publication Date: 08-NOV-2013

Obogs
 

Sounds similar to issues the Air Force and Navy/Marines have been having in their tactical and training jets since they ditched LOX for OBOGS based O2 delivery.

I can see the crazy lawsuits that would ensue, and the major risk to the profession if word of this gets out, resulting in decreased air travel, but airplane manufacturers really need to get on the ball and start designing their systems to prevent this from happening. I hope that Boeing’s new 797 is similar to the 787 in this respect, as it would be good to start phasing out those antiquated bleed systems, especially with the clean sheet designs (there is no excuse, putting those obviously faulty systems in new designs). I feel that Airbus is falling behind on this one and I’m not sure about Bombardiers’ system on the C Series but I for one, as a pilot and passenger would elect to fly on planes less likely to poison my brain, seat width be damned...

I don't think it's the same issue as the military problem with OBOGS/MSOGS. I have 1000+ hours in OBOGS/MSOGS aircraft without a single incident, and then there was a huge increase after I quit flying those. So I think the military had *something* change in the system that is causing the problem, and they just can't figure out why the system goes from being just fine to being really bad across multiple fleets. My personal bet is that a supplier (or multiple suppliers) changed and there are parts in use that makes it not work right anymore even though they technically test OK on the bench. But that's just my guess.

I always thought it was CQ making me wacky.

In the 880's when they wacked the turbo's and went to ram air, they called it "Perfumed Esther."

B6 has made an effort to convince everyone that the issue is not existent. They provided research minimizing the effects of routine TCP exposure.

Spirit tried to deny it as well. The crew that Eric was a part of pushed very hard to bring the issue to light while the company tried to suppress them. It became too much and Spirit finally acknowledged that these events do happen. They developed a procedure, a fume event reporting form, and supposedly replaced all the cabin air filters on the entire fleet to a much better more expensive filter. Not sure who can verify that work has actually been done but that’s what they told us. I would bet we probably report more fume events per year than any other airline now.

The reality is pilots probably do far more harm to their brains from alcohol consumption, and to some extent problems with women. :D

Would be hard to sit at a bar on an overnight and with a straight face complain to each other about how that smell may cause some health issues when older, as you pound that 9% Belgian. I’m not saying the risk isn’t there, but if you’re going to make a stink about it, wouldn’t you need to be the guy who doesn’t drink, exercises, isn’t 40lbs overweight, etc?

Difference is your liver can heal itself but your brain not so much.

Exposure to some of these chemicals causes brain damage similar to nfl players and concussions. Think about the secretly quiet, yet high suicide rate between the 2 professions.

Nope.

Doesn’t smell like that to me.

Smells just like a wet sock.

I’ve never had a reaction. Maybe it wasn’t long enough, maybe it wasn’t the same kind of oil. Could have been a kind of pack oil, I guess.

I’m just mad that maintenance used to lie to us and say it was some kind of water separators getting moldy. It’s not that

Nope.

Doesn’t smell like that to me.

Smells just like a wet sock.

I’ve never had a reaction. Maybe it wasn’t long enough, maybe it wasn’t the same kind of oil. Could have been a kind of pack oil, I guess.

I’m just mad that maintenance used to lie to us and say it was some kind of water separators getting moldy. It’s not that.

My current airline actually has very good procedures for dealing with any strange smells. My former airline most definitely brushed these events under the rug, and put us all in danger. I know several guys from there who had medical issues and are likely to never get their Medicals back

Not discounting any of the valid concerns against aerotoxic fume events... I recall C17 flying in the sandbox and we'd often experience this smell. Maintenance would change out the coalescer bag and the smell would go away...any other 17 drivers remember dealing with this during humid summer flying?

I didn't fly the C-17 but I flew other mil aircraft and all of them had wet-sock smell blamed on water separators. To my recollection, it was always worse in humid environmental conditions.

My last couple trips in the 'bus, I could smell a difference when we flew through thick clouds. Really felt an increase in humidity and a slightly "off" smell, associated directly with flying through dense clouds and light rain. Nope, I didn't file a report for stinky wet humid smell when we flew through rain, because I think we're seeing 2 separate issues here. Sometimes it stinks because the packs are ingesting oil, sometimes it stinks because the air coming through is just super humid and stinky. Separate causes, separate issues, one toxic and one merely unpleasant, but they both smell just about the same. That's just my opinion from 22 yrs flying jets, can't prove it, but I do think there's more than one cause for the wet sock smell and that just makes it very hard to pin it down.

Wet sock smell was common on the 727. A couple of writeups per year. Haven’t had one in decades since newer aircraft technology came on on line.

Can you supply a picture of their fume event reporting form?