Home Based / Non Domicile
 

Hey guys first post so please pardon any breaches in etiquette.

I'm a C-17 FPQ who is trying to move to Pittsburgh once I hit the 10 year mark, the problem is that it isn't really a domicile for anyone.

Does anyone have any gouge on any airlines/cargo companies other than ATI that do home base / non domiciles?

Omni, Kalitta, Atlas, Netjets, XOJet to name a few. Do your research though.


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Thanks man!

Anyone out there working for these guys? Any idea how the non domicile life compares to the domicile life? (i.e. more or less difficult)

Allegiant has a KPIT base, very small and no telling how long it’ll last

The vast majority of pilots are going to tell you that the domiciled gigs are better than the home-based ones, even if you commute.
Yes, living in base is king, but it's also a great privilege to live where you want and have the ability to commute to work.

Home-based gigs basically fall into either ACMI operators (Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, Omni, ATI etc) or Part 135 charters (XOJet, Nicholas, FlexJet, NetJets, etc.) And really, the fractionals aren't necessarily home-based as much as they list about 100 bases for you to live near, and PIT is always one of them.

So that said, the majority of current major airline 121 jobs are going to be better than the aforementioned home-based gigs for most people. In most cases, far superior. This is in terms of compensation, job security, retirement, schedule flexibility etc. In general, in order to recoup the loss of home-basing a pilot, you will be scheduled to be gone longer in order to not have to pay to position you as much. ACMI operators will routinely send you on 10-17 day trips, while the fractional life will have you on a 8/6 schedule (or 7/7 if you're lucky) on an endless loop.

Not worrying about a ride to work is great. I've done it. But even better is getting paid a lot more, having twice the retirement, and knowing my company isn't likely going anywhere.

Gotcha, that's exactly what I'm looking for! 2 follow ups if you don't mind.

1. Do the ACMI operators have a sketchy history? Have they laid off a lot of pilots in the past?

2. Any ballpark idea on how much less pay those guys are getting compared to one of the majors? 10%? 15%?

Look at Omni and Kalitta for ACMI. They have decent pay and contracts. Avoid Atlas. I love being home based and don’t miss commuting. I’m not applying to the big 3 legacies anymore if that says anything. The caveat is that you’re gone for a couple weeks in a row. Might be hard with young kids at home. But having a zero stress commute because I can board with group 1 with my statuses is a nice perk.


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Hop on over to the cargo section and read the Kalitta info thread. You'll find a lot of good stuff there. Or PM me if interested. The pay rates are on APC.

Home basing is the greatest. Live (almost) anywhere and just drive to work.

I commuted for years. No more. I recommend home basing be placed high in the mix of factors in your job search criteria. That's just me though. YMMV

FPQ? We talking like 7 years down the road? Just enjoy the C-17 and being bull lieutenant.

Everts Air Cargo is a home based carrier too, with 14 or 16 days on and the rest off. Operations are generally out of Laredo. Summertime assignments in Anchorage during fish haul. Company apartments with vehicles are provided.

Home based with XOJET now and I’m far happier than the regionals and am 8 on 6 off so I’m not gone as long as the ACMI carriers. Sure I’m often out early (6am) home 5pm (as early at 11 or as late as 10pm). Some Long hard weeks but company pays for food and rental car. Do your research for sure :-)

TROF your ass off.
Become an AC/IP/EP in the c-17.
See all the great dusty parts of the world on the air force’s dime.
Get hired by a major.
Profit.

Wasn't that NAC that was doing that?

My friend is really enjoying NetJets. Good contract and structure and the pay is good with all their additional pay stuff. He is also diamond/platinum on every US Airline and Hotel Chain. His family vacations are all used with points. Not saying it’s better than the majors but there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides.

Hoff... get off here and study your gracc book. You'll have plenty of time to think about domiciles when you're an IP and have no more upgrades. ;)

ELTW

There are no advantages to fractionals which outweigh a big-six job unless you absolutely MUST live in a specific town, which is fractional home base, but a very hard commute to the majors. Even then it had better be so important that it's worth a lot of money and time off over your career. About the only thing I can think of would be difficult family circumstances which cannot be relocated (ie divorce + kids). I already told my parents they will need to move to me when the time comes that they need ongoing help from their kids. Mom had been trying to get us to come home but I'm not trading drive to work in base for a 2-leg RJ commute from Podunk Falls.

I'm talking to new entrants, if you're already settled in and cozy where you are then of course you do you.

I’ll never go back to jumpseating and crashpads.... home basing and hotels every night away from home is hard to beat.

You can make huge money commuting to an airline that doesn't have a base where you live.

You can make huge money and get twice the number of days off living in base working for an airline with a slightly lower payscale but better work rules.

Living in base was worth somewhere between 10-20% to me. This year alone I've picked up around $10k in extra trips that were easy money but totally non-commutable, simply because I live 20 minutes from the airport. $10k for about 12 extra days of work and no commute hassles, due only to living in domicile. That's not bad for a 2nd yr FO.

Also, for a couple of recent months I ended up with a decent line but it was all weekends, didn't work at all with my family schedule. Because I live so close to the airport, I traded almost my entire schedule for 1 and 2 day trips that would suck for commuters and aren't desirable for anyone who live an hour or more from the airport. Super nice for me, home almost every night and it gives me flexibility to trade around kids/family schedule without worrying about commuting issues or spending money on hotels. Before I was in base, picking up 2 days extra work generally burned at least 3 days away from home, so I just didn't do it very often.

That said, some of the guys getting the most credit every month are commuters. They've been doing it for a while and often don't have kids at home, have a spouse who is self-entertaining (or have no spouse), so they don't mind spending 20-25 days on the road. I couldn't do that so I don't, but it works ok for some.

Agreed. Home basing is worth its weight in gold, especially if you're at an outfit like Omni or Kalitta that has a decent contract.

So, easy commute: 2 hour flight, one flight every hour, need 2 options for commute policy, get on first flight home every time, every trip commutable, 4 trips per month:
Get to the home airport 5 hours before check-in (get there 1 hour before check-in, 2 hour flight, one extra flight for policy, get to airport one hour before departure).
Go home, land 3 hours after check-out (1 hour wait, 2 hour flight).
So, minimum 100 hours pay per year lost (8 hours per trip, 4 per month, one month off for vacation makes 350 hours, 3.5 hour rig).
At $250/hr that is already $25K/yr, just for the extra time, with the easiest commute imaginable.
This is before un-commutable trips, and lost premium, because not in base, and don't even start on commuting to reserve.

Also: people complaining about having to pay $50/night for a hotel.....
(any night in a hotel is at least $300 in lost wages at 2nd year pay).

Why look at those companies when, with a little seniority, FedEx and UPS commercial you to work anyway.

But hey, sign up for pure home basing for half the compensation.

Any one saying these companies have decent contracts don’t understand how retirement works.

I just laughed and shook my head when I read that.

If somebody can’t put away a good retirement making $200k-$400k a year then something is amiss. ($500k for several at K4)
The LCC’s just recently started getting DC’s. I’d expect that the ACMI’s won’t be far behind.
Are they the big six? No.... but they are certainly respectable careers in their own right.
For many, living in base at an LCC or being home based ACMI beats commuting to a crashpad at a legacy. QOL has a value that varies from individual to individual.
YMMV

Different strokes for different folks and all that, for sure.
But there is a clear and definite reason people leave ACMIs for Big 6 (and JetBlue, Spirit), and no one leaves a Big 6 for ACMI.
Recently had an Atlas CA in my new hire class at a LCC.
As to retirement, there is a huge difference between " Maximum $10,000 company match annually" (Kalitta and Omni) and 16% direct contribution. By second year pay at Big 6, JetBlue, Spirit, you are seeing massive differences in retirement contributions, and thus compensation.
The pilots at Kalitta making $500k are the exception, just like the captains at Delta who cleared $900k last year (you read that correctly).

Much as we tend to thump our chests and debate our relative merits, most major airline/ACMI jobs are pretty good gigs, especially if you like airplanes.

Even some regional jobs can work out well, with luck, timing, and geography in your favor.

With all that said, the younger you are, the harder you should strive for Big Six employment. Second tier will be a very nice consolation prize if it comes to that.

Was DC in the last contract at JetBlue and Spirit?

I can speak to Spirit.

11% at DOS, increases 1% every year to 15%, so we are at 12% now and will be at 13% in March. Excess contributions over the IRS limit are paid back to the pilot.


I believe JetBlue is at 15% now and gets a bump in a few to 16%

Correct. JB 16% in 2021.

K4 retirement definitely does suck. I think alot of folks like me in un-commutable locations are holding the cards to see if a better retirement materializes before trying to move. That would make this gig close to ideal for many people.

Not what I was asking. How about I try again. Previous contract as in the one before.

Just like Spirit and JetBlue, this is something I believe will be addressed in the upcoming contract.

since you're new to JetBlue what was the 401k contribution in the previous contract.

There wasn’t a previous contract.

If you put in 5% they added 13%

Yeah... I was being sardonic.
Don’t know why he would ask me that.
It’s been discussed ad nauseum in the JB threads by the usual suspects.

Is this a JetBlue thread? We're comparing contracts between home base and non domicile right? If K4 somehow gets their DC in their next contract be a game changer right?

Forgive me for not entirely getting your point.

No, I don’t think it will be a game changer. I think it will be a really nice addition to their contract. I don’t think a large percentage of pilots honestly pay enough attention to retirement when making career decisions. I believe it has more to do with retention and CBA priorities than attracting new applicants.

I don’t believe that JB had a huge influx of apps solely because the DC, but sure is nice and was a large factor for me personally.

I’ve done the home based thing at two separate places. It has its benefits for sure, and for some people may be what works best for them, especially those living in Bumfart, US. However, there isn’t as much flexibility in scheduling with such jobs, and for me, living in/moving to a domicile far exceeds the benefits of home basing. If K4 had the same retirement and an equivalent pay scale to JB, I’d still take my 2-3 hour drive to domicile at JB over homebasing and 14+ day trips traversing all the time zones.

YMMV.