Better contract Spirit or Frontier?
11-25-2019, 06:56 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 353
Originally Posted by singlepilot
We have been analyzing both contracts.
With the exception of dropping to 0 at Spirit there is no true advantage one has over the other.
He’s comfortable but not comfortable enough to drop to 0 hours in a month so that’s not a deciding factor.
Per diem is better at Spirit.
Spirit does not pay leg by leg block or better.
LTD slightly better at Spirit
Higher guarantee at F9
And appears like more opportunities for soft pay at F9.
Really seems like a wash...
With the exception of dropping to 0 at Spirit there is no true advantage one has over the other.
He’s comfortable but not comfortable enough to drop to 0 hours in a month so that’s not a deciding factor.
Per diem is better at Spirit.
Spirit does not pay leg by leg block or better.
LTD slightly better at Spirit
Higher guarantee at F9
And appears like more opportunities for soft pay at F9.
Really seems like a wash...
11-25-2019, 08:10 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by singlepilot
We have been analyzing both contracts.
With the exception of dropping to 0 at Spirit there is no true advantage one has over the other.
He’s comfortable but not comfortable enough to drop to 0 hours in a month so that’s not a deciding factor.
Per diem is better at Spirit.
Spirit does not pay leg by leg block or better.
LTD slightly better at Spirit
Higher guarantee at F9
And appears like more opportunities for soft pay at F9.
Really seems like a wash...
With the exception of dropping to 0 at Spirit there is no true advantage one has over the other.
He’s comfortable but not comfortable enough to drop to 0 hours in a month so that’s not a deciding factor.
Per diem is better at Spirit.
Spirit does not pay leg by leg block or better.
LTD slightly better at Spirit
Higher guarantee at F9
And appears like more opportunities for soft pay at F9.
Really seems like a wash...
Take another look at the LTD. NK has a $15k/month max benefit which I believe is substantially higher than F9’s. May not seem like a big factor on FO pay but makes a big difference a few years down the road when you upgrade.
Overall very similar contracts with lots of growth expected at both companies. I think your friend will have a great career at whichever one they choose.
11-25-2019, 08:15 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 555
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
If you have a credit floor it puts restrictions on your flexibility. The ability to drop to 0 has significant value even if you plan on never crediting less than guarantee. This allows you to drop as much flying as needed, freeing you up to pick up open flying as desired (whether that be from open time, tradeboard or premium flying). A credit floor limits you to trading/swapping with what is currently available. Being able to drop to 0 greatly increases premium pay opportunities as well, especially considering that all premium flying at NK is 200%.
Take another look at the LTD. NK has a $15k/month max benefit which I believe is substantially higher than F9’s. May not seem like a big factor on FO pay but makes a big difference a few years down the road when you upgrade.
Take another look at the LTD. NK has a $15k/month max benefit which I believe is substantially higher than F9’s. May not seem like a big factor on FO pay but makes a big difference a few years down the road when you upgrade.
11-25-2019, 10:18 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 813
Originally Posted by ULLI
Tottaly agree, f9 we only get 8k for Ltd. To me that was one of the biggest shockers people allowed to get voted in. It's not even remotely close to industry avg.
11-25-2019, 10:43 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
If you have a credit floor it puts restrictions on your flexibility. The ability to drop to 0 has significant value even if you plan on never crediting less than guarantee. This allows you to drop as much flying as needed, freeing you up to pick up open flying as desired (whether that be from open time, tradeboard or premium flying). A credit floor limits you to trading/swapping with what is currently available. Being able to drop to 0 greatly increases premium pay opportunities as well, especially considering that all premium flying at NK is 200%.
.....................
In the case of premium flying... F9 does pay out at 150% vs 200%, but is also met with a credit premium as well. A 20 hour four day may have an additional 10 hours of credit making it a 30 hour four day. That all pays out at 150% for a total of 45 hours of credit for a four day trip. Then anything over 82 hours of credit for the month will be paid at 125%. So depending on credit prior to picking up a premium trip, there is a lot of double dipping associated with a premium trip at F9.
Last edited by TOGALOCK; 11-25-2019 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Incorrect info posted
11-25-2019, 10:55 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
While this is true, F9 isn’t really so much “dropped limited” as it is “final monthly credit limited”. You don’t get cut off from dropping at the minimum credit. Rather, you can drop all you want just so long as you credit the minimum monthly floor by the end of the month. How you do that is up to you. In theory, a pilot at F9 could drop to zero, pick up one good premium trip and then be done for the month. If the OP’s friend wanted to drop to zero and not work, that is one thing. But the ability to drop to zero for the sake of schedule flexibility is a wash in this case. Dropping to 0 at F9 is doable. You just can’t close out the month with 0.
11-25-2019, 11:02 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
Ah I see. That definitely helps to solve the flexibility aspect of having a credit floor. What happens if you don’t pick back up to the monthly minimum?
In seriousness though, prior to the contract nothing was usually ever said or done about it. People habitually went below the floor without a peep from the company. I’m not sure how it would go post contract. My guess would be that if you went below only once in a great while, nothing would be said. I went 10 hours short a few months ago and never heard a peep.
Last edited by TOGALOCK; 11-25-2019 at 11:27 AM.
11-25-2019, 11:21 AM
#29
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
Ah I see. That definitely helps to solve the flexibility aspect of having a credit floor. What happens if you don’t pick back up to the monthly minimum?
11-25-2019, 11:22 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by Xdashdriver
Actually the info you were given is incorrect. We cannot drop below 50 hours credit at any time. You always have to have at least 50 hours on your schedule at any given time. By the end of the bid period it has to be at 60 or 70 depending on the month.
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