OnGuard!! please help me
 

I did 3 year at piedmont, 13 at skywest and now on year 4 at delta. So thats 20. I have never flown with someone that clicks over and says "you are on guard" I know people like to blame us delta guys for being guard clowns but i have not seen it. Who TF are these peeps clicking on and blasting "on guard?" You think its like 3 guys?, I know if I flew with somone here at delta that did that i would educate him/her to never do this again.

The fact that the people who are the problem like to say something on guard about it being Delta should be your first clue that they probably aren't Delta pilots. Honestly, 99% of them are probably RJ captains. CAs who don't support it won't let an FO do it without giving them hell, so even if an FO does it a CA is part of the problem by allowing it. Likewise, what are the chances of two mainline pilots being on the same flight deck and both accepting it? Honestly, I'm shocked that you actually think anyone seriously thinks it's Delta pilots.

I flew with one CA when I was at the regionals who really started to go all in with it and I called him out on it then and there, but by his reaction most FOs were afraid to say anything.

Regardless, it's just a matter of time until this problem is resolved. A fed on the JS told me last year that the FAA had plans for DF equipment on the center antennas so eventually they will be able to triangulate and identify the offending aircraft and violate the crew. It's starting to be viewed as a safety hazard since so many crews are turning guard down or off because of it (as well as center controllers being distracted). I'm sure they would only be able to get aircraft without another too close by, but I at least hope that it's really happening. First violated crew should shut the whole thing down really quick.

I haven’t flown with a single person at the regionals who does this. When I flew Part 91 I knew a guy who did it though. Honestly I don’t even think it’s 121 guys most of the time.

I flew with 1 or 2 PSA captains that did it but they’ve flowed to American already so we can just blame American guys now. With that said it’s usually just one or two immature guys that seem to be the vocal minority on guard.

Had an fo at PSA who's hands moved at the speed of light to switch coms so he could yell "on guard" and then laugh hysterically.
After the first day I had to have "the talk".

Dunno what the desire to tell everyone they're on guard is.

I do understand if someone is accidentally transmitting repeatedly on guard giving them a heads up.

I don’t understand the problem with saying guard. We all put ramp in the back up of 2 and forget to switch it. Some wads even say cleared to the gate. Now coming into DCA with cats and other crap is annoying. I have no problem with saying guard in a short quick fashioned like how Canada controllers reply roger.


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Yeah, a couple of CTAF calls on guard is warranted. But this is getting out of hand. I heard someone broadcast music the other day and someone asked purposely what the score of the game was.

Rarely but occasionally someone keys the mic on the wrong freq. Unintentional, and it's worth a collateral laugh. I don't mind playoff scores personally, although you can just get that from center.

The meowing is just stooopid. It was funny for about a wek after Super Troopers was released, but that was a good while ago :rolleyes:

The most annoying thing is the "on guard"s, because those idiots do it when people are actually using guard for it's purpose, getting someone back on their freq or an actual emergency. I have actually heard, on two occasions, emergency GA aircraft in serious distress and people trying to help them getting stomped all over by "guard nazis".

I'm certain 90% of the "guard nazis" are doing it to make people *think* someone is being anal, it cannot possibly all be DL.

There are several things I like about flying in the west and not having to listen to that crap is one of them.

Agreed.
It isn’t the actual informative ‘you’re on guard’ call.
It is the childish hijinks that come after.

The meowing was never funny.

Oh my...
:rolleyes:

Yea good luck with that. The precision need to identify a specific Aircraft in a 3D environment using DF equipment is not something that really exists right now and so depending on how far from the receiving stations the aircraft is and the Length of the transmission, one would have to potentially be the only aircraft for 100 miles in any direction for them to be able to pinpoint it with any level of certainly that would hold up in court.

Can be accomplished....

FAA action isn't the same as a criminal court proceeding.

I sure hope it doesn't take until we go to digital radios to work it out.

I'll also point out that the fact that the guard nonsense is only on the east coast not only helps not only support it not being mainline pilots but narrows down specific regionals as primary culprits.

Heard a long PA on guard last month that sounded a little staged. When I landed I searched the flight number and that flight number was not being used that day ( it was a Delta flight number). So I think guys are just doing this crap in some strange attempt to troll Delta.


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Nonsense. All they have to do is narrow it down to any dozen or so aircraft. Previous transmissions by aircrew heard at all facilities are pretty readily available these days:

https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php

So you track back to those transmissions where those aircraft have given their call sign, or previous flights those aircrew have made until you find a voice match with the guard-jamming transmissions:

https://www.audioforensicexpert.com/...dentification/

With only a dozen or so possibilities, it would be very easy to determine who the actual culprit crew was/is.

As for legalities:

So no, there really are no serious technical or legal problems in chasing these people down or proving the case. And I imagine if people continue to act like six year olds, that’s precisely what the FCC WILL do.

And seriously, do you think any major airline is going to even touch you if they find out you’ve been effin’ up an EMERGENCY frequency? Especially if the FCC pulls your radio license? Or that even a regional is going to keep you around if you are doing it with their equipment?

All they have to do is nail one or two miscreants and terminate their careers and the others will start to behave.

Naw it's easy. FCC already has DF gear to find unauthorized transmitters. Just need to narrow it down to a handful of aircraft and listen to some tapes and pull some CVRs.

Only have to do it once probably, indict one moron and revoke his certs and the problem will go away.

It's only a question of do they want to do it badly enough.

Can’t pull cvrs for that.

Are you guys really advocating for the feds to pull CVRs? Good luck with that. Just turn down guard.

We were going into PHL one day and a PA popped up on guard. We thought it was real until this dude literally hit every Delta stereotype in the book on the announcement (both pilots military, what jets they flew, how much time between them, etc) and I thought this was just a little too out there to be real. It went on for 2-3 min straight. Naturally guard had a meltdown and people were stepping all over themselves trying to mock “the Delta” crew. We had to turn it off for landing and taxiing to the gate we turned it back on and it was still a meltdown on guard. Seriously, the trolling on guard has gotten out of hand.


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Or off
Filler

You think the first Guard-off of the year has already happened?

Probably the best way to handle guard nonsense is just not to laugh at it.

As an aside at my carrier we have a pilot who thinks it's quite droll to tell everyone its smooth when its turbulent just to mess with pax carriers. Same type of deal.

When he gets someone hurt on a passenger flight he might not find it so funny. A flight attendant with a broken bone is a accident that the FAA investigates. Faking turbulence reports might be seen as careless and reckless operation.

You do not even HAVE to pull CVRs. Just compare the transmissions of aircrew of suspect aircraft aircrew identified through DF with their previous transmissions - readily available from preserved ATC facility interactions with those aircrew through voice identification analysis. That would require a few hours (or perhaps even days depending on number of aircraft in the area) work but no real technical challenges, or legal ones either.

The government is not required to even get a search warrant to pull up recordings on their tower, approach and departure, or center tapes - far less the commercial sites like ATCLive archived transmissions.

This is the digital age. Every one of us has left an ineradicable trail of voice transmissions by the time we have an ATP and generally long before that which are almost as capable as fingerprints at identifying the perps once the total number of suspects is whittled down to a few dozen or so people. Any competent Private Investigator could do the legwork. And just based on a DF steer, anybody and their brother could look at the ADS-B and and pare the suspect list down to a dozen aircraft or less.

https://i.ibb.co/Nyw98n1/5220-D78-B-...C85-B65-F4.jpg


But seriously, are you trying to defend some idiots inalienable right to make an @$$ of themselves by making idiotic transmissions that interfere with appropriate use of an emergency frequency? Good luck with that. Your own management will terminate you for gross stupidity and bad PR.

It would be easier to justify beating up some anonymous doctor who didn’t want to give up his seat than trying to justify meowing on an emergency channel because you were bored.

I always laugh when someone calls ops on guard and a “go ahead” reply is heard.

What annoys me the most, is I have noticed people lately are so triggered by someone on guard that when someone is legitimately looking for a frequency on guard people are blocking him by saying “YER ON GARD!” happened last week. Some poor bastard couldn’t hear the frequency center kept repeating because some punks kept blocking it.

All that said, guard stays on for pure entertainment purposes.

Set the brakes, erase the tape. Easy Peasy.

Aww you actually think that does anything? How cute.

FAA maybe not. But FCC/FBI/DOJ investigating a crime? Sure they can. CVR is not the same kind of privileged communication as lawyer/client privilege.

Intentionally misusing the RF spectrum is an intentional crime, it's covered by federal criminal law, not the FARs.

And it doesn't matter one whit what your union contract says about it :rolleyes:

I like having guard up so I don't go NORDO. Don't want to do paperwork or get a private tactical airshow just so some childish dooshbags can get their jollies off. And who knows, there might be an actual emergency. I have on two occasions in the course of my career heard pilots helping another pilot in distress via guard.

It’s not that Delta is the guard police, I’ve never seen guys do that. It’s that two out of three times an inadvertent transmission occurs, it just happen to be us.

That’s a function of guys stroking out if number 2 isn’t on 121.5 the instant we are done with the ramp frequency.

What’s the point of monitoring guard on the ground anyway?

This could probably go on Tool of the day as well.
A captain I flew with was either sleeping half the trip, reading or just not paying much attention to his job.
He always kept 121.5 on number two radio. He could be dead a sleep and as soon as someone said something on guard he popped right up and made it known they were saying it on guard. Total tool.

I was flying a rare domestic trip four months ago. As we left EWR (notorious for what I think is punks on the ground screwing around on Guard), I heard us being called on Guard by Departure.

We had a stuck mic. First time ever in an airliner for me, although I’ve had a fair number in tactical jets.

Sure enough...the glareshield mic button was stuck IN. I jiggled it and got it out; I had to break my habit pattern all the way to LAX to use the yoke button...something I had never done before.

THIS is what Guard is for, and I was thankful I had it loud enough to hear (and that we weren’t saying anything embarrassing!)

Ironically, it is often so bad south of EWR, that one has to turn Guard down or off because of the clowns making it a mockery.

Swing and a miss. The cvr tapes are property of the company not the federal government. If the airline wants to shoot themselves in the foot and turn the tapes over, they certainly could. But I again most companies use the cvr system as intended For accident investigation. If the FCC wanted to file a suit and require the company to supply the tapes again they could try. But this issue does not warrant that level of intrusion. That would set a very dangerous precedent.