Family Airlines
 

www.familyairlines.com

WTF!? With 747-400's??? :confused:

Comments?

sounds like a bunch of people in economy, with a flair of Skybus/RyanAir sales of food, etc. That said, i would love to fly a whale!

It looked like a 200 in the picture. Ive heard of these guys before they have been trying to get this operation off of the ground for years....at least 10.

They have been around for at long time. They've been trying to raise money for economic authority for the DOT certification with the FAA. Same website and same pictures from days of yore. I have to say... something does not add up here... this is one airline that one may consider staying away from.

Noticed they use a YAHOO.com email address.

The website makes it look like one of those virtual airlines that MS Flight Sim enthusiasts set up.

This looks like someone's project for a college class. As a matter of fact I think I have made better presentations for class.

50% of profits through means other than tickets eh. . . sounds like Air Canada.

As a matter of fact, in the mid 1990's an airline in eastern Canada tried to start up with 747-200's; they even got someone desperate enough to give them a hull to park on the ramp.

Guy's actually paid $300 for an interview, if you can imagine. And after them it was a 747F operation out of Vancouver. I think there are instructors who were promised jobs who still think it is going to happen, six years later.

744's, by the way, only work as domestic airliners in Japan, where they sqeeze 600 seats in them. Even on our domestic network in New Zealand we stay away from A320's because of their size (granted the stage lengths are less than an hour).

Lot's of these ops try and steal money from pilots desperate to fly a 'whale'. If your that hard up get a couple thousand hours and buy a cheap rating, then head to some third world country where they will gladly hire you. Don't buy shares in one of these operations on the promise of a snake oil salesman. And if these Sky Bus guys are getting away with paying skippers what I hear they are, then you can imagine the pay and conditions if one of these ops ever get's off the ground. At least the front desk clerk at the Motel 6 can say that they have a B747 crew staying with them (can you say min rest).

That is not a B747-400, I think that is a 200 or 300, I dont know the difference between the two but I know that is not a 400. uba727

Nice flag on the tail... copycat

It's a -200. The 743 has a big upper deck door on the aft side of the hump. The hump is also too short for a 300.

Looks to be Pratt Powered too.

I wouldn't give this operation the time of day.

It looks like a load of BS. Adobe Photo Shop paint on the 747.

Family Airlines tried back in the mid to late nineties and failed to get off of the ground. Their actually was a 747 painted, that looks to be a picture of it, then it sat in Victorville forever. Good luck this time.:eek:

They are ADVERTISING, let me repeat, ADVERTISING, for a CEO on www.climbto350.com. Whew, that's rich.

They have been looking for personnel and money ever since they have been advertising. The have no certificate... they have no aircraft... they have no empoloyees. Perhaps they should try doing an informercial in order to draw a wider audience.... just a thought.:rolleyes:

It's a 747-100

The worst part is that they're looking for experienced volunteers to be airline executives who are willing to work for free while they attempt to start up this train wreck of a company. Then of course, if they ever make money, those execs will get a lot of money for their time.
My favorite part is in the question/answer section:
Question: Do you have funding?
Answer: We have a plan for funding.
So I guess that's a no!

The stuff below is pasted directly from their career information page.
http://familyairlines.com/project/career-information/

Pre-Certification Positions Available

Currently, we are only filling key positions necessary to complete our certification process. We are set to file our DOT application on January 23, 2008 or sooner. The people who fill these key positions now will be offered permanent employment with Family Airlines upon certification/funding.

During the pre-certification phase, all employees are uncompensated.

What we need from key positions:

Participation in weekly team meetings
Approximately 5 - 10 hours per week service to Family Airlines until our application is filed (January 23, 2008 or sooner) and during the certification process to work out the kinks.
What Family Airlines will provide you with:

We know that people don’t like to work for nothing. Family Airlines has a solid business plan, a solid team, and the motivation it takes to get this airline off the ground. We are prepared to offer our pre-certification staff the following:

1. A written agreement laying out your position with Family Airlines upon certification/funding, salary and benefits you will receive once Family Airlines receives certification. (contingent on certification, funding and job performance prior to filing).

2. In addition you will receive a generous bonus package to thank you for your hard work during our application process will be provided upon certification.

Common Questions and Answers

Question: When will the application for certification be filed? Family intends to file on January 23, 2008 (or sooner) with the Department of Transportation.

Question: How long is the certification process? Anywhere from 4 months on.

Question: How many hours per week do I need to put into Family Airlines to guarantee me a position when you are certified? We are asking key personnel to dedicate a minimum of 5 - 10 hours a week while we finalize the application prior to its submission.

Question: What is left to do on the application process? There are two processes that need to be completed prior to an airline being certified to fly.

A. FAA - Flight operations, maintenance and safety

B. DOT- Compliance, economics, management.

Question: Do you have funding? We have a plan for funding.

The first position listed on the employment page is "Director of Risk Management"...awesome.

http://familyairlines.com/project/ca...ble-positions/

This disfunctional :confused:family has been scamming the aviation community for years.

Anybody know what the ZFW for a 400 is?
They claim they are gonna carry 581 pax plus 100k in freight.
For a pax model the BOW seems to be in the neighborhood of 393k.
581 pax x 210 avg wt = 122k
lets say 1.5 bags per person at 30 lbs = 26.1k totaling 148.1 in pax
plus 100k in freight = 248.1 + 393 BOW = 641.1k.
The ZFW for the -200 is 590 and I just dont see the -400 ZFW being alot more than that and surly not 640k

I believe the lower deck has 11 spots avail for freight but I just don't see how they propose to carry 100k in those spots. Something about floor loading but then again I dont know the numbers for the -400.

Just here to poke more holes in their theory and not to mention some of the short legs like LAS-LAX-, LAS-PHX, LAS-SAN, LAS-SFO, LAS-SJC really add up in cycles and ground handling and landing fees.
Wonder if one (or only) person at Family Airlines will read this and make adjustments to the web site.

not being nit picky, but it does say 747-100 underneath the photo.;)

But I am surprised no one noticed the #4 engine isnt there either. Think they could have posted a better pic:rolleyes:

Proposed Company Benefits

Competitive Salaries
Full Medical, dental, vision and prescription plan / Wellness Program
401K Program
Profit Sharing Program
Tuition Reimbursement Program
In-house Daycare Program
Paid Vacation
Paid Sick Days
Paid Personal Days
Paid Holidays
Fully-equipped, comfortable restrooms and break rooms in our corporate offices
Employee Recognition Programs
Annual company parties and family fun days
Relaxed business casual dress code 80% of work days

Well hell, I wasn't going to consider it....but fully equipped bathrooms? Damn, this is a top class op. Then again, apparently this is only at the corporate HQ, chamber pots at outfields?

This outfit, if you can even call it that, has been on the 'net pandering for free executive management help for years. There is absolutely no chance that they will ever get this old clapped-out whale off the ground. Not worth even talking about.

I saw a photo of a 747, similar to the website, shot at VCV or SBD...somewhere down in SoCal. Might even have been at SBA.

The real rumor is that the owner is Cal Worthington in disguise...

I forgot how annoying that guy is!!!:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOsLdT4slsk

Go See Cal!!!!!!!!!!

And his dog Spot!

Hilarious...I remember his commercials from my youth.

Thats to funny. what are these people thinking?

An update will happen tomorrow on the website for a new volunteer position...volunteering to buy a #4 engine on the whale. You will get 1,000 shares of stock, as well as a lifetime of free travel on Family Airlines (amongst the 581 other people in coach).

i read the website...are these people serious or is this simply a bunch of drunk ERAU kids who were bored (because Riddle has no girls) and decided to do this for a joke?

the CEO has an admittedly checkered past. Not that people can't change (hey, I'm generally an optimist) - but Family certainly doesn't have (even remotely) the caliber of leadership that other upstarts (successful and unsuccessful) have had. Plus, the guy's running for congress!

What's even better is the DOT filing posted on their website has mis-spellings, typos and grammatical errors that would do FI justice. The logic train follows that of a drunken barroom discussion of how to build a better mousetrap.

I love you man!!! No man, I love you!!! F-it, let's start an airline!!!

Yeah man! Did you see the story of the BA 747 that flew LA to London last year? I know where we can get a killer 747 with three engines cheap...who needs a fourth?! We can advertise on yahoo for key personel...it will be awesome!!!

Just think how much fuel they will save by not using engine #4!!!

On a serious note - everyone on this site who is a professional pilot has to be "of strong moral character"...and so do any mechanics on this site as well. My question is that if you are going to apply this standard to pilots and mechanics, why does it not apply to executives who actually can bring great pressure to bear on the above mentioned groups? Namely, how does J. Orenstien (who got in trouble in the securities business i believe) and this Barry Michaels who has done hard time ever get a license to be an airline operator?

I am not saying that Barry Michaels is a bad person by any means - people can and do learn a hard lesson and move forward to great things. What I am asking is how people who have had questionable conduct in the past requiring censure or prison could be trusted to run an operation in which thousands of lives daily could potentially (Family Airlines) or are actually (Mesa) at stake?

Exactly, old story. They're not even able to get financing for expensive to operate -200's much less -400's.. The smart money (read investors) lined up strong behind Skybus, but this place has a tough sell to get 1/10's of the start up money Skybus got in 6 months.

Trust me, flying a "heavy" is over rated... what matters is QOL, and job security. That's just my opinion.

Hard to give the BOW on the 400 because it can vary widely. The Max ZFW on the PAX airplane is 244,939kg. Converted to pounds it is 539,998lbs.

Well I do have to say in my long haul days, I got some of the best sleep in the seat.:D

My QOL for flying Capt on a heavy is pretty good.

hahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaa hahahahahaaa