At fedex.. 70% of flying is night, 30% is day. week on week off hubturns.

Pax flying is quite the opposite, and the 30% of night flying includes one redeye, not multiple legs a night 4 nights in a row.

You might block less, but one circadian disruption per month versus 8-10 per month, there is no argument there.

International stuff, I don't think any of it is good for you long term.

People have left and they are happy with their change. The ones I know had flown passengers in their past life and preferred that lifestyle over cargo lifestyle.

How many hours away from base is the trip with 50 hour layover and how many hours does it pay?


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Interesting thread. I actually do a lot of layovers that are 30 up to 70 hours. I've actually come to realize I feel like my life is completely wasted on the road. End up spending money on rent cars, random attractions to keep myself entertained. Crazy to say I preferred 13-15 hour layovers where you could eat dinner, sleep... get up, work out... eat breakfast and get back to it. Definitely a different world. I see why some do side gigs on the road (YouTube, Stocks, etc..). Time at home is the most valuable asset to me. Sorry not sorry. Everyone is different and I respect that. But I feel I'm just gaining weight and fighting boredom at the end of the day. Contemplating going back to pax.

When the robots come for our jobs, they’re coming for FedEx/UPS first

When particle transporters (Ala Star Trek) are first realized, they will replace the shipping industry first.

Sure. Because cargo is flying the latest state-of-the-art equipment.
Those DC-6's in Alaska will be first to go.

If there’s anyone around here who has left FDX for AA and would be willing to chat please send me a PM.

Still no answer to this.

I don’t work for his company, I’m at NK. 90%+ of my trips are paid based on rig not block. Most are 4 day trips, 70-ish TAFB, so pay 20 (3.5:1 pay). Normally around 15 block, so I would have to fly over 5 hours more to make more money. Long layovers do not mean less pay as long as you have good rigs. We get paid an extra duty for layovers over 24 hours, so every now and then I will get 15 hours of pay for a 2 leg trip with 35 hours TAFB and 8 hours block.

I'm not cargo hater, but this is a bit misleading. Of course you'll never divert for a disruptive pax, unless it's one of your own running around with an ax. But what is the percentage of pax flights diverting for unruly pax? I'd have to imagine it has a decimal and a zero or two before you get to a number above zero. Even if so, those pilot probably got a nice bit of extra pay for that divert lol. Even if I did, other than a radio call, I don't really deal with it anyway. I'm already through the first third of my pax carrier career (hopefully) and I haven't even had to kick off a pax at the gate, let alone divert for one. I sit up front with the door closed and let them deal with it while finding the end of the internet. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it just seems like cargo guys woefully over blow this issue.



Man, unless it's a great location that I can take the lady with me, anything over 18 hours is going on my avoid list. I don't do this job to "travel" on overnights. Unless that 30-70 hour layover is at home, which I know some cargo guys who are lucky enough to do, then it's a complete waste of my time. I actually prefer no overnights, day trips and sleep in my own bed at night lol.



Admittedly not the main reason, but one of the reasons a buddy left FDX was he hated the "round the world" long haul flights. He knows he could have eventually bid off to something else, but he had his other reasons which were the driving factor. Though, I'm not sure if that's worse than one leg to Europe, 22-30 hours overnight, then one leg home, which is how a lot of our international trips are constructed.

You’ve never had a pax removed? That’s lucky. I’ve been in the pax biz for over 15 years and am in the double digits. It’s also rarely a big deal and somebody else is doing the work.

1/3 through your career… glad you’ve got it all figured out.

Spirit? 12 years for me. I've had one pax that had an appendix burst (what the paramedics thought anyway), while at the gate. But even that was simply a call to ops to send paramedics. I haven't yet had the misfortune of all these unruly pax that apparently are on ever pax flight lol.



If there is one thing I've learned so far, is you never have it figured out. What is it that I said I had figured out?

AA has the same TAFB rig. If I’m flying anywhere near that rig I’ve f’d up big time. My average over the last year is 1.5:1. No thanks.

So you get 1 hour of credit for every 1.5 hours TAFB? If that is what you mean you are probably not commuting. We have day turns that pay 1:1. 5 hours duty, 5 hours pay. But either too early to commute in, or too late to commute home.

I commute, start 10pm day 1, finish 8 am day 4, 70 hours TAFB, 15 hours duty, 20 hours pay. Show me a trip at AA that has the same footprint and pays over 45 hours……….

Amazing. Typical or one off?

Messed that up…. Finish 8PM day 4. But time away from base/credit/duty was correct.

Typo…. See above.

Occasionally get one that starts late, ends early , 60 hours TAFB with a 24hr+ layover that credits 20, but rare.

in 2020-2022 I think I averaged one a week for when I flew. Outside of that time maybe 1 every 6 months. Personally I've only asked 1 person to get off all the others were directed by the FAs

Horses for courses. I would rather change careers than do day trips.

I learned something new today when you said “horses for courses” haha. Never have heard that expression before. But a fair point for sure. Everyone is different and I totally get it.

Understandable. What I liked has even changed over my own career.



Lol same.

Ditto for me.

comparing an ACMI to UPS or FedEx is like comparing Endevour Air to Delta Air Lines, similar but different.

Question for those complaining about working at FedEx, working nights and Memphis:

What did you think we do?! We fly nights. That's the overnight package delivery industry. World Headquarters is in Memphis. Neither one of thse things has changed in 52 years.

I agree; that would be like coming to WN and being upset that you don't do one-leg days and wide-body flying.

Actually no. Half the domestic flying was daytime. 4 years ago, there were bases in Hong Kong, Cologne, Germany, and LA. There was talk of increasing manning in IND. ANC had two airplanes based there.

Now look. What people came to FedEx for and what FedEx is currently offering is wildly different. Sad truth.

But in the overall history of FedEx, historically, what have we done?

I didn't come here with the notion that I'd never fly nights or never see Memphis. I was realistic.

That's like saying, I want to go to Delta, but I can't stand Atlanta or I want to go to UPS, but I can't ever see myself wearing brown pants.

That’s every pilot at the air line except ATL based bubbas.

True story. Even many of the ATL based pilots doing like it. 🤣

Two things can be true at the same time. Delta is awesome but ATL sucks. Thankfully I haven’t been there in a long time. We now have sims in SLC now which is useful for bounces.

This is why as a newbie to the business you have to ratchet back and take a really good look at the long view. Not casting shade at any one particular age group, because mine was just as guilty as any other, but it's really, really easy to get suckered into whatever version of SJS is currently the flavor of the month.

When I was a newb, and the earth was still cooling, I was chomping to get at any major. Guy I worked for took the time to sit me down (he worked for a famous major that evaporated overnight) and really laid out what to look out for any potential employer for the long term, and none of it was about where their bases were, new contracts or service, how many airplanes they have on order, or how shiny their new CEO is, because that all changes in an instant. Practically every airline changes their 5 year plan every 2 weeks.

The long and the short of it, you need to look at an operators "true" history to get a read on what they'll do, because once they get going, they rarely change. For practically all of the history of the industry, your best bet is to find a spot (which is usually the first spot offered) and ride it out. Yes, there are very, very brief interludes where there is some form portability, but if you are on the wrong side of it, you will be seriously bummed at the result. A lot of people talk about the "trunk" carriers hiring private pilots in the late 60s, but no one ever finishes the story about how nearly every one of them was furloughed, in some cases for a LONG time, in the early 70s after the energy crisis.

Ernie Gann said it best....defy "the numbers" at your own risk. And that was the 1940s. Nothing has changed in the game since then.

I don’t get the Atlanta hate.
ATL is the easiest major hub in the country. Nothing with half that volume is less complicated or painful. I just wish the food options were better…

The airport is not the issue…

Some pilots have extra personality issues and some GA have a power trip/lets show these pilots who’s in control issue.

Grab a 5 hour flight in 42B and then stay at the Sonesta for training and you will understand:D

Seriously though that hotel needs to be cleansed with fire.

ATL is a good place to live, but not to visit

Partly in good fun, but only partly. Your point is a common refrain from people, but that really has nothing to do with it. For me, it's the constant wheels up times, switching planes from the end of D to end of C almost every time I touch ATL and the dramatic increase in reroute likelihood. But mostly it's just becuase everyone hates VA Ave lol.

Man, the 717 must be the reroute machine. I’ve been rerouted outside of ATL more than in ATL the last year.
And wheels up times from small outstations are a pain, and your bird gets mostly small outstations….

Yup. This summer, coming from JAN, my wheels up time was longer than my scheduled flight time. It was a beautiful, weekday morning with no wx in the entire U.S., even dispatch was dumbfounded. Then, even though we were way late for our scheduled 55 min turn, we still had to do the C to D shuffle, even after asking to keep it. I just do my best to avoid ATL.

As far as reroutes, I don't get them often anymore, but that's because I mostly do turns. However, nearly evey reroute I received last year was doing flying that touched ATL. May just be my bad luck.