Ex FedEx
 

Any of the recent FedEx to legacy hires on here? Just curious about your experience leaving and transitioning to another airline. Is it better? Any pitfalls you didn't think of? I'm genuinely curious about how this place compares. Thanks.

You know we live in unusual times when people are leaving FedEx to go to a legacy. Seems like only yesterday it was the other way around.

The “Working for AA” thread on the AA side touched on this a little bit. If you don’t get what you’re looking for here, it might be worth looking through that thread a bit.

which is why it is best not to play musical chairs in this business.

Wasn’t fedex equivalent to ACMIs prior to 9/11? Not great but not comparable to legacy pay/benefits..

while I don't disagree, "this business" did not have such a hiring environment in decades. If somebody who lives in Dallas is in Year-2 at FedEx, and commutes to Memphis, and AA calls him, well....

Not myself, but there were two FedEx and one UPS guy in my new hire class at Widget. They seem really happy. They were all 2 years or less on their former properties. That’s about all I remember but, indeed it is very interesting times in the industry.

I think I read about some that recently went the other direction (Covid scare) and weren't too happy and wished they'd stayed at a legacy. Maybe was in the FedEx forum?

I'm guessing you're at FedEx and contemplating a jump?

To me jumping from a Purple/Brown to pax should be avoided unless:
-You can live in base
-You can't handle night flying

Even though things are looking rough at FedEx now, consider 2-3 years ago there were pilots with 4-5 years jumping to cargo. IMO, not a smart move unless it's for commuting or you just hate pax flying. So don't make the same mistake in the other direction. You're playing the long game here, in 5-10 years cargo might be the golden child again.

Factor the risk of being number 15,000 on the seniority list when and if a down turn occurs. Flying pax for a US carrier vs Cargo too. I went from Pax to Cargo for a year and a half before moving overseas. I didn’t think I’d make through OE. After the first week, I said to myself, what was I thinking? Cargo is the way to go… No hassle, no fuss, no muss. It’s disturbiing to hear how often and how many diversions occur due to disruptive pax.

Think long and hard before making the jump to pax ops.

Definitely valid concerns...to a point. I flew ACMI for a little bit and I heard the "cargo is sooo much better" often. The thing is, pax is really not that bad. Yes there are absolutely headaches, but boxes have their own headaches.

Boxes fly at night, you're always remote parked, grueling schedule changes (under old 121 rest rules) caused by late cargo, and finally DG/Hazmat. If you look carefully at the 121 accident rates for cargo vs pax the difference is sobering. In some ways I fully agree, no pax is great. But flying around at night, over the ocean with a bunch of DG and hoping a pallet with some lithium-ion batteries on it doesn't light itself on fire when you have no main deck extinguishing is to me less fun than potentially having to deal with an unruly pax. And yes, both those scenarios are remote, but just providing a counterpoint.

Also, diversions due to disruptive pax may seem common but I don't think they actually are, they just make a big splash when they happen. Diversions for medical emergencies and weather are much more common.

Edit: To reiterate, I don't think you should jump from FedEx unless you can drive to work at the new place or hate night flying. This is just more color on the pax vs cargo.

had 1 fedex pilot with over 2.5 years there in my interview group at Delta. FedEx was too hard on his family and decided to go to Delta

Some background, I’m basically 5 years in, nearly 34. I’m leaving regardless of TA pass or fail. I can’t handle 31 more years of night flying or around the world ops and a commute to MEM. I’ve applied to DL and UA and will just move to a base that I can see myself living in.

I have money saved, no family and nothing that ties me down. It’s a big decision, but I know I’ll be much happier. I flew pax at the regionals, while living in base, and have missed that type of flying ever since. I’m tired of feeling tired at work, and tired of getting on a plane to go to work. This place used to be good for a lot of guys and gals, but there are just better options these days. Sucks to start over, but 5 vs. 31 years is a big difference, and I refuse to be a slave to my seniority.

some UPS guys were on Delta Indoc this month as well
times sure changed

Well, disruptive pax diversions oftentimes make the news....Which happens every once in a while but still relatively infrequent given the thousands of pax flights a day. With about 19 years of 121 experience, I can't really remember diverting for an unruly pax. Maybe have five-0 on the destination end, but diverting? Nope.

More people have died from load shifts in recent memory than from pax issues. Having that keep you from cargo ops would be equally silly.

Between battery fires, load shifts, and rest rules, nobody can deny that 121 pax is safer than cargo. But they're still both pretty safe in the grand scheme (reputable US 121).

Even so, IMO the real statistical risk with cargo is the health impact of the circadian disruptions experienced by many cargo pilots.

Of course, cargo never talks back to you.

Neither do pax any more. We won't get caught dead arguing with some drunk arse-hat on the six oclock news these days... only way to win that game is not to play. Shut the cockpit door and radio for GSC and cops.

I don’t think pax flying is significantly safer than FX/UPS. Pax carriers haul cargo too and note that many LiBatt incidents were from shippers not following rules and/or intentionally disregarding them - pax carriers aren’t immune from this.

At UPS, we use fire resistant ULDs (cans) and fire blankets over pallets while pax carriers still have the aluminum foil cans. We also have EVAS on all aircraft. Last, having hundreds of people on board means hundreds of opportunities for haz, LiBatt items in check baggage, iPhones catching fires, and so on…

For FedEx/UPS, load shifts aren’t a major threat like they would be at an ACMI. I’m not aware of any significant events for either company in recent years - correct me if wrong here. At UPS we walk the main deck on the 74 before departure and on all fleets we usually have enough cans loaded that would prevent a significant CG change if things started moving around.

Circadian: intl/long haul, I don’t think there’s much difference and could even argue it’s slightly less fatiguing at Fx/UPS vs pax.

Domestic, night sort flying is taxing and a big percentage of FX/UPS flights but pax carriers aren’t exactly immune from back side of the clock work (eg. red-eyes, early am shows, etc.). There’s also a fair amount of day flying. Really, only a segment of pilots are flying nite domestic.

Another factor - FX/UPS pilots in general fly a lot less block hours per year that pax guys do which has the effect of reducing the risk for a lot of these factors. Less risk of hijacking. Less exposure to communicable diseases, etc.

Again, not arguing cargo is safer than pax, just suggesting that they are probably closer that your posts suggests.

Everybody calm down. The important thing is that we all realize and take solace in the fact that our own path is superior to anyone else’s.

It’s pure human nature to rationalize one’s own decisions. When I was in military and moved a bunch, when I moved to new area and asked anyone about a church/school and almost always their church/school was better than any others and the ones down the street were all messed up.

Not sure why you think you have to work until 65. You are only 20 years from maxing out your pension. At that point, you can retire (at 54!!!), defer your pension until age 60, and live off of savings and your 401k until the pension kicks in. Sounds awful. :rolleyes:

Where do you find those statistics?

Its based on an OLD statistic/study. One from when cargo TRULY was all night flying. Vs the shift that happened 20+ years ago where a huge portion is day time flying.

People now just like to spout it off to pretend like they know more than everyone else/justify where their choice was better, etc.

I know junior guys at both purple/brown that can hold mostly day, PM, or non circadian rhythm swap schedules.

Our days at the regionals could be more punishing than what they fly.

Yeah it’s so crazy, I’ve never met a cargo pilot that flies at night. Y’all must park all the jets at 22:00 local

Cargo flying, like pax flying, is only hard on your health if you do it a lot. Smart money says getting paid to not fly is better for your health.:cool:

EXACTLY.

And as an SLF pilot, we never fly nights either.

At my SLF my shop, ALL flying is day time. No circadian swaps or redeyes.

Hell, even our king China/India/SA stuff ALL takes place in the day time with rest periods timed to our domicile/acclimated time.

OP asked for comparisons…

Yes sir! The few days of flying, the better. Shorter legs, lower altitudes also help.

My guess would be that international night flying in theater is the healthiest cargo option (CGN, or intra asia). You’re on body clock, short legs, low block, and low radiation. There are usually better food options, you have more time to eat, and you often have a high quality gym to yourself. You can definitely screw it up with brats and Kölsch but thats a personal choice.

Having done most types of flying in the 121 world I would say the it comes down to one and done type widebody pax flying and intra theater cargo flying. Of the two I prefer the cargo option.

This is just my personal opinion. I don’t have statistics like rickair777 says he does.

You’ll hear some people describing their ACMI experiences as an indicator of life at Purple/Brown and the reason for choosing pax. That is a mistake. It is very different. We do fly at night domestically. However, between the domestic day time and the international night time flying there are plenty of palatable options. You used to be able to bid those relatively quickly. Things have slowed down now.

That being said, with the rapid movement at legacies and the slowing pace of the aforementioned two I’d advise most aspirants to choose a legacy right now and stick with it. I would not leave a top two cargo slot unless I had little to no time invested and the reasons for leaving were overwhelming.

This month at my ACMI I'm doing one (1) redeye flight, everything else is bankers hours. And I average 50 hours per layover.
40 hours block. So fatiguing.

Its good to see someone taking the time to smell the roses

Hiring for all types of legacies or cargo is about to come to a screeching halt for 3 years if this age 67 + 364days (read:age 68) passes. Hiring will stop and if the economy takes a dump the warn letters will go out. Congress is single handedly ****ing us all for a second time.

Let us not forget what 2007 (age 65) followed by 2008 did to a lot of us.

Well you work for Atlas flying FedEx freight.....

50 hour layovers sound fully retarded to me.

come again?

Hopefully it won't completely stop, but it will definitely slow. Are you emailing/calling your reps on this? We might get steamrolled either way but if it's close 1,000s of letters/calls might just be enough to get one or two reps to change their vote.

Not sure if you're ALPA but they make it super easy. I lived through age 65 and I'll be ****** if I don't at least fight another age increase.

Done all of the above and I got put out on the street in 08 so the 60yr olds we “desperately needed to keep” could stay employed

That's really the irony of the entire thing isnt it.

The ones that benefit the most are most likely out on medical/disability, they cost the most, have the most vacation and are the ones that most likely can afford to survive a bad economic turn unemployed. The ones this is the worst for it just the opposite of all of this. I personally dont see why this is getting any traction other than to slow the migration out of the regional model, a model which by all standards should be destroyed as it will benefit the pilots way more than a two year extension.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2023...9351689867523/

Unfortunately, the house has already passed age 67. There is a slim chance it will be dropped during reconciliation with the Senate version, but I would prepare for a more geriatric cockpit environment.