You are wrong. None of what you said matters at all.

The FAA will 100% consider her to be a "Healthcare Professional". So you have to report the visit. What do you say? "I was feeling kind of blue"? The FAA will defer/deny your medical and send you for further evaluation... they might (probably) want that part to involve an MD.


Two issues:

Block 18. Here the jeopardy is trying to rationalize what is and is not a "diagnosis". I can tell you what the FAA will think, but of course you can have your opinion. You Do You. NTSB will decide the appeal.

Block 19. Going to leave that blank? What are you going to put for "REASON"?


You're correct that she doesn't have to report much to any authorities, patient confidentiality, etc. But that doesn't mean you can lie to the FAA. See the --NOTICE-- at the bottom of the form.

If you're proposing just getting care and not reporting it, or lying about the nature of the care, well yeah people do that. Don't get caught.

But if they find out, it's not going to be OK.

 

Rick, you make it sound as if you're risking your medical just to go talk to a counselor. That's just not the case. This is a quote from the AMAS website referring specifically to Block 19: (emphasis added)
​​​​

Quote:

FAA Reporting Requirements
A 1991 change in the reporting requirements on FAA Form 8500-8 mandated all visits to health care providers, including counselors and psychologists, were required to be reported on each physical. The Federal Air Surgeon (FAS) wrote a letter to all Aviation Medical Examiner’s (AMEs) in September 1992 acknowledging that the effect of this interpretation of the 8500-8’s instructions discouraged pilots from seeking mental health assistance. The FAS indicated that the FAA encourages pilots to seek assistance for all conditions, but does not want to restrict flying for those conditions that did not affect flying safety. His clarification, later incorporated into the explanation section of question 19 on the 8500-8, stated that visits to mental health professionals were reportable ONLY if it was due to alcohol/substance abuse OR resulted in a personal psychiatric diagnosis.

Full article here: https://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...gical-support/

Also see the instructions for form 8500-8 block 19

The bottom line, IMHO, is if you feel you need to talk to a counselor, do it!

 

I've said before that things like marriage counseling are not an issue and don't have to be reported.

That applies to personal therapy as noted above, right up until a diagnosis happens. Everything I said above was in the context of getting help for depression/anxiety stuff... in that case it doesn't matter what flavor of provider, if the verdict is a mental health issue that counts as far as the FAA is concerned. You need to self-ground and report it to the FAA on your next medical. Legally.

If you go talk to somebody about relationships, stress management, or daddy issues that's fine. But if it bleeds over into anxiety/depression, then you quickly lose the high ground. I mention that because in this day and age, providers are spring-loaded to SSRIs (rightly or wrongly, IDK).

And I can assure you, if any provider who's licensed to practice anything in your state says that you have a mental health condition, that's a diagnosis for the FAA. Maybe you can put the toothpaste back in the tube, but you have to deal with it one way or another.

There's a lot of info available. If you need help, get it asap. If you're maybe a little down in the dumps, start googling. Decent chance you can address it on your own, once you understand what's going on and do some research. If that doesn't work, get help.

 

Why not do it then? It's easy. Here is how:

Next time you walk to your AME, say these words: "I have had a few cases of loss of consciousness, not sure why".

Boom, go sip margaritas on the beach, as you will never fly again (unless you want to).

 

I know, right. I see guys in town all the time hanging out on LTD for relatively minor things. They don’t miss it.

 

If you’re on LTD for a mental health reasons it will not pay out until 65. My airline it’s only 2 years. Yet another reason why a pilot might be cautious to seek help.

 

You are correct. Any pilot on here should address the issue with a professional BEFORE they deteriorate into depression or anxiety.

This is untrue.




Separately, I knew someone who went to a walk in clinic doctor for indigestion and found out later that the doctor put anxiety in their chart. When they followed up with their PCP, the PCP saw it and informed them. That PCP knew the patient was a pilot and thought that was ridiculous so they backspace backspaced it out. No harm and there wasn’t even a discussion about a persons “feelings” or stress with that walk in Dr.

Moral of the story is a therapist doesn’t share their info with your system chart. Occasional anxiety is not reportable and is “normal”. Chronic anxiety is a disorder and therefore reportable. Also a walk-in clinic doctor is likely more threatening to your certificate than a Therapist.

Googling is fine but it could also exacerbate your stress.

 

If your employment and income is vital to your lifestyle and family obligations I would suggest an escalating approach. Research self-help first... lifestyle choices and things like mental outlook, meditation, etc can have a very real positive impact for many folks. For most normal people who hit a rough patch simply understanding how it works and what the factors are is 2/3 of the battle.


No it's not untrue, it depends on the airline and CBA. I know of at least one which has LTD to age 65 for pretty much any grounding condition including mental health. Many others have limits, such as ten years for all conditions, or a lower number for mental health. It doesn't matter much what other shops have (unless maybe you're in section 6), you just need to read the fine print for your own CBA.



That's great they were accommodating. I wouldn't bet that all docs would be willing to incur that kind of potential liability.

And this goes to my point of how they're spring-loaded to throw down anxiety/depression and sell some pharma.


That seems like a slippery slope. I'm addressing this in the context of keeping it all completely legal and above board. You're suggesting some grey area there.

I don't think the FAA or AME is going to gloss over "feeling a little blue" or "occasional anxiety". If you report any such at a minimum you'll be grounded and have to get an evaluation to clarify that you don't have a clinical no fly condition. They are going to view that like "a little bit pregnant". They're on edge a bit since germanwings, and mushroom dude isn't going to help that any.


We all know you have the option of getting all the health care you need, for anything and everything, not telling the FAA, and hoping you don't get caught. The good news is if you make it to age 65 and don't renew your medical they probably won't bother coming after you at that point. But that's not what I'm talking about here. In operational risk management hiding stuff from the FAA would fall into the "High and Right" category... low probability, but catastrophic consequences. So it comes down to how well you sleep at night.


I don't see how more information would be more stressful, especially for pilots. We like to solve problems (just ask our wives). Having a roadmap and something to work towards might be therapeutic in it's own right. If not, of course get the help you need.

 

Then, agree to disagree.

 

All the mental arguments aside. If you haven’t actually had a heart attack, stroke, or mental breakdown, and can see with glasses you should be able to earn a living flying and get any issues treated BEFORE they become a problem. That’s why there are two of us up there anyway. Instead so many pilots are ticking clocks bc they don’t seek treatment bc the FAA strokes a pen and they lose their livelihood in a instant.

To the FAA it’s no treatment no problem which is exactly the opposite approach that should be taken. More often bad things happen bc treatment is never sought.