Will there be a rebound due to 1500 hr rule?
 

I see we’ve resurrected the tool of the day thread, and the first honoree has set the bar quite high!

Agreed. This is a very high bar for the next tool of the day to surpass.

Union hating SonicFlyer posting an article from union hating Forbes magazine in a pilot site? Here's my shocked face.

He's always been one of the biggest trolls on this site but for some reason they keep letting him do it.

TOTD

It’s funny the author fails to mention the decades of furloughs, bankruptcy contracts, and career stagnation. Managements and macro economics created the shortage. The government exacerbated it by making more barriers to entry. Pilots get to capitalize until the next downturn.

Unpopular opinion isn't necessarily trolling.

What about when said poster is admittedly on an industry forum and isn't part of said industry? And only ever posts anti-industry standard (aka anti-union) posts? Maybe they do post more than that, but honestly I never see them post anything but anti-labor garbage. Must be some sort of mental tick or something to so closely follow, and so vehemently oppose airline labor, when you aren't airline labor yourself. I truly don't get it, but maybe I'm in the wrong.

He was a regional pilot years ago.

It doesn't hurt us to understand the sentiment that's out there.

Are you saying the author of that article in WAPO was a regional pilot or sonic flyer ?

If you're referring to me, that is not accurate. I do fly for a 135 though.

LOL... opinions that might be different are "anti-union?" ha ha ha.



Well then you haven't been looking very closely.

People shouldn't be forced to join a union and pay dues to get a job. It should be a choice. That being said, unions do a lot of good things. They also do a lot of bad things. It's a mixed bag / double edge sword.

Are you speaking from experience or are these just your thoughts? Have you been a part of a union?

What do you guys say we all make it a habit to spend time on the Part 135 forums and post pro-union propaganda? That’d be so weird, wouldn’t it?

The major thing missed in all these "union pushed pilot shortage" articles is three or four of the five crashes post 2000 had guys who had attended the pay-to-play company named Gulfstream Airlines down in FL. They bought their right seat B1900 job for $25k and got their time then moved into other carriers.

Since it's inception (1500 hrs) the pay to play went away and with it the type of people who were essentially unemployable by normal means.

Since medieval times guilds have restricted access to professions. The AMA does it, the ABA does it (to a lesser degree.) I would hope ALPA would also do it. I always questioned why they spent a dime on booths at events encouraging people to become pilots.

Pilots don't have to join the union, but you have to pay the contract maintenance fee. Plenty of non-union operators to fly for also.

There are plenty of non-union jobs out there. They tend to be at the lower levels of compensation/desirability.

Any guesses why that is, Sonic?

He wants the money but thinks he deserves it. He shouldn't have to pay the union for the good paying job even though the job is good paying and desirable because of the union. It's the peak of entitlement.

Sure it is. He's posting it just to get a rise out of people. I think they call it flame bait? You've gone after people for less. But hey, it's your show.

You want to silence and censor people who may have or at least offer different or alternate opinions than your own?

(insert Star Wars “It’s a trap!” Meme)

Dont pull your victim nonsense on me. You have all the freedom in the world to start and pay for your own website and post all the anti Pilot nonsense you want.

No one is forced to work for a unionized airline. We do so by choice. If someone is extremely anti-union they can work at any non-union company that their heart desires.

Even if you work for a unionized airline, you don't have to join the union-just pay some fee regarding the value of the union contract.
That may vary by state, but I do know a now retired crewmwmber who quit the union and kept flying.

I haven't posted any "anti-pilot" posts on here at all

being anti-union is being anti-pilot.

Only for the small-minded groupthink crowd that lacks critical thinking and independent thought skills.

Besides, I'm not anti-union, they do some good things. I'm anti-forced union, because it should be a choice.

it is a choice. You can get hired at my shop and choose not to join the Union.


however, you rightfully will pay a fee for contract maintenance because you benefit from the Union contract.

You admit the union offers good things but you don't want to be forced to join. Does that mean not forced to pay dues? The idea behind unions only works when all are united. If every worker gets the benefits of the union, then they should pay to have those benefits. I’ve been or are a part of multiple unions ALPA, Minnesota Nurses Association, and the Bloomington Federation of Teachers. All had the exact same requirements for employees to join and pay dues.

The right to not join the union while paying a reduced fee for contract services from which you obviously benefit from seems like a fair compromise.

I find it odd that a pilot would want to be employed in a 121 environment and would prefer not to subscribe to legal representation. If anything other than contract dues, legal and medical representation/benefits could save your career. It’s not like the employers actually “care.”

is the fee essentially the same as if one was paying dues?
Would that person still benefit from the new work rules pay etc?

The excess amount was refunded to the retired guy I know every year.
Not sure how it was determined, but it was a fair amount back if I remember correctly. He was happy to not have to pay for "the world's most expensive magazine."

yes. You work under the same contract, so all rules are identical. The amount is slightly less.

you’d lose the Union protections in disciplinary actions, medical issues, and some other things.

anyone making that joke about the “magazine” and not seeing the IMMENSE value of unionization in 121 airlines is dangerously stupid.

There was a pilot at Delta who was involved in a quite serious incident when Delta was a open shop. He was a non union member paying no dues. He promptly paid up all his back dues in order to obtain union representation. That was a bit controversial and some said the union should have just let him hire his own representation as it was going to be and was a expensive battle.

that seems wrong. It’s like getting in a crash after having a car for a year without insurance then calling the insurance company and they let you pay a years worth of retro dues to cover the cost of your crashed car.

what are the bad things?

Many agreed with you. The pilot in question was a crew member on Delta 1141. I think the union felt there were so many issues that could help pilots down the road they felt the investment was worth it.

If the union felt it was a good strategic move in a particular case, OK that's what we pay them for.

I don't think any and every non-member should be able to retro-actively buy in anytime they screw up and need help though.

I love it when these anti-union part 91 and 135 pilots want all the financial benefits of working for a major airline, but don't want to join a union. They act like the union dues are an unbearable burden. They also seem to be uneducated on what those dues actually do. They think that money goes to a few cronies who use their union position to get out of work. While there are cases of that happening, it's not different than any other form of low-level corruption that takes place at all levels of society. I bet it's even lower since so much of their work is on record. Dropping trips with pay seems awesome until you realize it's so they can fly halfway across the country to attend a boring meeting about contract violations or watch a PowerPoint about new healthcare options.

And if money is all you care about, here are my numbers for 2023. Gross pay: $404,000. Union dues: $7,080. That's 1.75%. But it gets even better. Those dues paid for the negations for our new contract that got me $47,000 in retro pay alone. Then there was a union volunteer who audited one of my trips and discovered I was owed over $2,000. I will gladly pay a small fee for a group of union members to monitor my pay and deal with all the corporate bureaucracy to chase down the money the company owes me.