Yep... right there in the manual. Conversely, when I'm on any sort of a jumpseat pass offline even on a wide open flight, I always check-in with the captain and ask for a ride, and in the process never ignore the FO.

I've had Southwest gate agents tell me that but I still check in with the captain. It's still the captain's plane, I'm there as the captain's guest, and seeking permission is a must. Perhaps I'm just showing my age.

You’re correct. Gate staff, flight attendants, or any other ground staff don’t supercede the rules wrt who actually gives you permission to ride. (The Captain). Always say hi if you’re a jumpseater, regardless of whether you’re in the back or not. Easy peasy.

I don't think it will change but to me this whole process is very egotistical. "My Plane" "My Permission" "My My My"

At the end of the day we are glorified slaves working for someone else , flying someone else's equipment, to make someone else more money than us.

Rant over (Don't worry, I will still check in with our servant leaders to avoid capital punishment).

Captain this is no way to treat a paying passennger? Kindly turn and walk away.

Jumpseating is not a right, it is a privilege. Along with that privilege comes professional courtesy. If you do not have non-rev benefits on the flight and are not on a paid ticket, you don't have a right to just go sit in the back for free. You are still technically a jumpseater and the captain determines who rides and who does not. Check in wearing appropriate attire, present your ID and any credentials that they are required to check, and politely ask permission to ride. Show some professional courtesy and you'll be fine. Fail to do so and you'll most likely be invited to brush up on jumpseat etiquette while you wait for the next flight.

We get it. Guys like you say that, but in reality few people seem to care honestly. In the beginning of my career I had an AA captain tell me politely that it’s really not necessary to stop by the flight deck to ‘check in,’ even if assigned a seat in the back by the agent. He said if they’ve assigned you a seat in the back, just go ahead and get on and take your seat. There’s no need to come up front unless you need the JS. Before I met this captain, I had another say the same thing to me on a regional flight. A couple of other captains seemed agitated that I checked in, even after I waited patiently to say “hey guys….” while they finished their briefing or checklist so as not to interrupt. Seemed like it just wasn’t necessary.

Im still pretty young (35). Maybe this profession was different ‘back in the day’ 20-30-40 years ago, I don’t know. But it seems like even the older captains don’t care for guys to come ‘check in’ up front when given a seat in back. The vibe seemed and still seems to be “oh you’re a non-rev??? Ok cool. Well why are you up here? Go sit down dude. we’re trying to get things wrapped up so we can get out of here on time.”

Except as a JSer, you are not a non-rev. You are officially a member of the crew, even if in back.

Maybe it’s different at different carriers, but at mine all JS are generally expected to check in.

Another pet peeve of mine is attire. My last line check, I had a FA show up out of compliance with company policy for attire. Put me in a super awkward position with the LCA because I didn’t notice the leggings, he did. Gee, thanks… Fortunately, she had proper clothes to change into quickly, and had a good attitude, so it was nbd. If you are going to exercise the privilege of using the JS, know and follow the rules for the company from which you are asking for a free ride. Both of these faux pas will almost certainly not get you kicked off my flight, but again, treat the privilege with the respect and courtesy it deserves.

You most definitely should check in up front. As mentioned, riding in the back because there’s seats is still a privilege, but most importantly it’s good to know what resources one has in the event of an emergency, etc.

If someone gets moody with you for checking in upfront then they’re the a$$, not you. Think about it this way, you’ll make more people mad by not checking in then by checking in.

^^^ This.... All of this right there, and the manual spells it out. Flight deck or cabin jumpseater must check in with the captain. Some airlines call this ACM (additional crew member) or OMC (observer member crew).

As a jumpseater sitting in the back, there are rules that apply to you that do not apply to non-revs. As Fangs said, you're not a non-rev and whoever calls you a non-rev when you're a jumpseater is wrong because as a non-rev on a non-rev pass, you can enjoy a nice glass of wine/champaigne, have a beer, etc. As a jumpseater, even if sitting in the back, the FAR's specifically refer to you as a crewmember, and you cannot consume any alcohol.

If you're indeed on a pass or a paid ticket and are traveling in uniform, you're under no obligation whatsoever to check in, and I won't presume you are a jumpseater. But personally, I appreciate knowing I have another pilot or a trained crewmember in the back as an asset from the CRM perspective. It doesn't mean I'll use you, but never hurts knowing we have another asset available.

Bottom line, don't let a few casual guys dissuade you from doing the right thing. Some things are spelled out in the book. Some things aren't but think about them from the other perspective. But no matter what, treat others the way you want to be treated.

I always check the standby list to see if anyone’s trying to get on, and I appreciate if you stop by to let me know if you did, because it saves me the step of having to check again a few minutes before we push.

That said, if you don’t stop by the cockpit, I won’t be butthurt. No need to kiss the ring. I know you’re tired and just want to go home.

The whole notion of the CA caring about a random passenger in 32A getting a free ride is stupid. Why not have every nonrev check in then?

If you’re in the cockpit jumpseat, that’s different. I appreciate if you ask, as you’re now sitting in my office.

It seems as a whole that airlines/and unions should make things more clear for everyone or at least send some memos out reminding everyone of the rules. Recently I listed the JS on a JetBlue flight, although I got a seat in the back the gate agent told me “show this to the captain”. And printed on that form was “Captains Copy”. I politely knocked and stepped in and introduced myself, said I listed JS and got a seat in the back as I politely held the “captains copy” form out to the female captain. She gave me a snarky look and said if you have a seat in the back you don’t need to come up here and bother me.

Right. The policy says I need to, I was instructed by the gate agent as well, but in her own rules I don’t need to. I’ve also been told by a legacy pilot that “he doesn’t control the seats in the back, only the gate agent does”. And that if I have a seat in the back, go sit down because it’s an airline policy that the seat was given to me, not his own; he only controls who rides the JS.

too many pilots have their own rules about this and it’s just confusing.

This is correct. Don’t care what anyone else has told you. End of discussion.

When I started and was commuting, I was on multiple AA flights where even after checking in, the Captains lectured me on checking in.

I still remember, one of the flights I had a seat in the back and I stopped up front and said "Hi Captain, my name is XYZ with regional airline, I was given a seat in the back but I wanted to check in and say hello and thanks for the ride.". He turned around in his seat, said let me see your badge/certificates and then gave me a 30 sec lecture saying "You know, you're required to stop up here and check in" to which I said "I'm aware, which is why I'm up here". I had a coupe other AA captains say similar to me, and a United crew.

At my airline, you are literally required to come up to the front if you're offline jumpseating because we have to sign a jumpseat form that goes back to the agent. End of the day, if you're offline and jumpseating, just stop up front.

ALPA has a lot of informatiion available to all pilots.
Worth a read if anyone has questions.

I’ve had literally the opposite experience lol. There is no ‘standardization’ it seems with many airlines and how captains would ‘like’ to see it implemented.

I don’t work for AA, but work for one of their regionals, and have had 1 captain tell me NOT to check in when given a seat in back, and have also heard from many other pilots in casual conversations, both from the WO’s and from mainline, say that it’s not necessary to check in, UNLESS of course you need the jumpseat, which that is a given. I have never had an AA captain ‘stop me’ during deplaning to say ‘why didn’t you check in?’ Been the opposite actually. “Is this home for you? Welcome home!” Is how it usually goes, sometimes friendly conversation follows if I happen to be walking up the jetbridge with the crew if they are in a hurry to get out of there. I’ve never had someone ‘profile’ me.

On rare occasions when I had to ‘offline’ jumpseat/non-rev on delta, yes, there is no question about it. I have always checked in with the captain and ASKED for a ride, even if given a seat in back, doesn’t matter if the flight has like 20-30 seats open either. That is standard procedure and I always followed and respected that. I remember when I asked for a ride once on DL, the captain thanked me for asking to get on. I was confused at first, and then he proceeded to tell me he’s had quite a few offline dudes that just got on and didn’t ask.

Then there are a whole separate group of captains that did what the OP said happened. There are still a few captains it seems that like to chastise and ‘dress down’ pilots who are PS/DH’s and are revenue customers. That is just absolutely ridiculous and completely uncalled for. And I’d argue that it’s unprofessional too and just causes more of a rift between pilots.

airchina981,

I think I actually took a photo of you and that captain the moment he confronted you for not “checking-in”. Take a look…

https://i.postimg.cc/MT3TpnCz/IMG-2019.png

5 stripes… nice! WTF is up with his index finger?

AI generated.

1. As a captain, when I get to the gate I ask the agents about any specials as well as any listed jumpseaters. If they say there are some and will get a seat or if there are none but we could get one at the last minute with a seat, I tell the gate agent to have them check in with me so I know they got on. I want to know every possible person, non-rev or jumpseater, got on the flight and not leave anyone behind. Having the jumpseater check in with me saves the time of me asking the agent, "Did our jumpseaters get on?" I do all this because I was a commuter at one time, and now during the summer when travel is at its peak, I want everyone accommodated. Period.

2. Jumpseating is a privelege not a right. The jumpseat and who rides on the aircraft is at the discretion of the captain. I was taught oh so many years ago when I started this career that even if you have a seat in the cabin that the captain gives the final blessing as to whether or not you ride. Therefore, ask don't assume.

3. If you are on a paid ticket flying as a passenger for your company in uniform, in flip flops, in a furry costume, I do not need or care to see you as you are a passenger like anyone else. Same goes with regular non-revenue travel (in appropriate attire...no furry costume).

Under what circumstances are you going to tell the guy who has been assigned 32B in the back, no he cannot ride? Just curious.

If 32B is listed as a jumpseater like it or not that is at the discretion of the Captain. 32B isn’t on any kind of pass benefit or paid travel. Also is 32B a scab? Something else I like to know.

Is he wearing shorts, T-shirt and slippers while technically a jumpseater?

Yes. But he checked in with his uniform and then changed into pajamas in the lav.

As much grief people give the TSA about us having to be in unifrom to get through a checkpoint, it doesnt work the same way round when we are running the show.

If they are sitting in the back, who gives a crap what they are wearing? It is another pilot catching a ride. Don't be obtuse.

Because a jumpseater needs to comply with the appropriate dress policy? Do you also waive the alcohol rules?

So what you're saying is we should willfully disregard and purposefully refuse to comply with what our FOM and Ops Binder say because "It's another pilot catching a ride, and not to be obtuse."

Great... what else do you think we should be willfully noncomplying with?

It's easy to tell if a pilot is new in the industry or not by seeing how they're dressed and how they check in with the Captain. The seasoned one always check in and ask for the ride with ID and certificates ready, regardless of having a seat in the back. Most new people will just tell you he'll be in the back.

What would you do if a jumpseater came into the flight deck, stowed their bag, and announced that they were the jumpseater rather than ask? Just brush it off because.... who cares? Lecture them on professionalism and proper etiquette and envite them to start over? Deny the jumpseat and suggest that they brush up on proper procedures while they wait for the next flight? Regardless of where you sit, you are still a jumpseater. Proper attire and jumpseat etiquette/procedures always apply. Personally, I'd start with the second option. If their attitude didn't immediately change, I'd exercise option 3.

So, 8 pilot JS’ers all with a seat in the back are supposed to check in? Talk about task interruption.

And, why must they absolutely do it? But the 7 OAL FA’s just walk on through. I’ve never seen one check in with the fight deck.

And, yes, I’ve seen this happen. The poor pilots couldn’t get anything done without being interrupted.

All check in. Sorry That's the way it is.

Yup. What does your manual say?

Again, read what's in your manual. Are they nonrevs? At my shop, not required to check with the captain. Are they jumpseaters? Required to check with the captain. Right there in the manual. I don't make the rules, but I'm paid very handsomely to follow them.

And I have too. And I don't allow myself to get rushed or pushed. You're a big boy, deal with the interruptions of getting fellow pilots home or to work. If we go late, we go late, but we go when I'm ready, and I'll never hear a peep about it.

It depends on the air line. Or Air Line.

I see what you did there. But regardless of an actual FOM requirement, it’s still proper etiquette.

Sorry Fangs, but the word 'etiquette' doesn't seem to appear in the Millennial/Gen Z vocabulary or dictionary. Is that like another word for a fancy latté? ;)

ROFL. Nice.

At my airline, jumpseating flight attendants aren't required to check in with the captain. Pilots on the other hand are. The FOM says that captain must check their documents regardless of where they sit. I will also say that just like other sections of the FOM and FAR's, individual compliance is hit or miss. Some people don't really read the books and ignorance is bliss, some make individual decisions as to which rules they follow, and others simply do what ever their manuals say. Being that you never know which captain is up front, always check in with your documents ready and politely ask for permission to ride and you'll never have issues.

In decades, I've never had a JS FA check-in. Not once. Must not be a thing.

Interesting. At my airline it’s not required by the FOM (anymore), but pretty much all FA’s check in.

My only pet peeve about that is, if you are going to check in, don’t be like the ones who essentially throw their boarding pass on the center console, interrupt the conversation/brief, and announce “I’m your jumpseater”.

Etiquette and courtesy are not hard, and go a long way.

That would be a nice ASAP close out. “You’re a big boy, deal with it better.”

task interruption has been a hot topic in the past. It’s just funny to me that checking ID’s of people in the back is seen as necessary when we are supposed to be focusing on things up front. It just adds to the multiple things that can break a preflight pattern.

Anyway, slow your roll dude. I’m just showing the absurdity of making one group check in while another walks on through when the destination is the same. It’s like this where I work as well.

At, swa, is an OAL FA a non rev or FA jumpseater? If non rev, why wouldn’t a pilot with C31 be considered one?

full disclose, I check in no matter what. And, I understand doing what manuals say. That doesn’t mean the process couldn’t be better.