Bellerophon

Riddler

...Does anyone know how other foreign (particularly European and Asian) carriers pay?...


Big Airways

1. These are GROSS BASIC SALARIES, based on flying 900 hrs per year.
   
   
2. These do not include any overtime (x1½) or training pay (+20%).
   
   
3. Hourly rates are included for comparison purposes only.
   
   
   
   • B747 Capt ..... Year 24 ..... £147,089 ..... $ 300,000 ..... $ 333 / hr
     
     
   • B777 Capt ..... Year 17 ..... £123,861 ..... $ 252,600 ..... $ 280 / hr
     
     
   • B737 Capt ..... Year 12 ..... £ 97,206 ...... $ 198,300 ..... $ 220 / hr
     
     
   • A320 Capt ..... Year 07 ..... £ 85,191 ...... $ 173,800 ..... $ 193 / hr
     
     
     
   • B747 SFO ..... Year 10 ..... £ 77,731 ....... $ 158,500 ..... $ 175 / hr
     
     
   • B777 SFO ..... Year 07 ..... £ 65,286 ....... $ 133,200 ..... $ 150 / hr
     
     
   • A320 FO ...... Year 01 ...... £ 55,330 ...... $ 112,800 ..... $ 125 / hr
     
     
     
4. Big Airways pilots paid primarily on Years of Service, then Seat, then Aircraft type.
   
   
5. On upgrade, change pay scales at your length of service point, Yr 07 SFO → Yr 07 Capt.
   
   
6. 6 weeks paid annual leave per year, plus a few unpaid days leave if requested.
   
   
7. Ballpark figure, most pilots will take home 60%-65% of their gross salary in the UK.
   
   
8. Cost of living and housing is undoubtedly higher in the UK than most of the USA.
   
   
9. Time to B747/B777 command currently around 17 years.

Regards

Bellerophon

DAL4EVER

Sadly, we in the U.S. don't get it. We keep reducing ourselves to the lowest common demoninator. The European carriers are mostly long haul and have established themselves as premier service providers that people are willing to pay top dollar for. The US carriers have cut to the bone in order to survive and have minimal infrastructure to handle the flying. Couple that with pilots who are willing to fly at JB, Skybus and Virgin America for $65-80K a year as a Captain is hurting everyone. In order to compete, everyone has to come down. This has been beaten to death over the past few years but it is our reality. The freight carriers who have a high barrier of entry don't have the competition so they are insulated from this. If we were smart, Alpa would establish apprenticeships in college and flight schools. We would educate pilots on the importance of not selling ourselves short just to take any job. Because the job we take to try to get to our dream jobs may indeed replace the dream job as they disappear.

captjns

Compare airfares with all carriers serving, lets say JFK and LHR. You will see that all airlines on this particular route are about the same in all classes of service whether the ticket is purchased at the last minute, or well in advance. You can also compare prices with online travel warehouses such as Orbitz, Travelocity, Priceline... etc.


A number of European carriers are short haul and home based with very decent wages.

Lets not forget the pilots of legacy carriers who accepted deep pay cuts along with the pilots of VA, SB and JB that accept low wages from the get go. Its sad that a 737 FO in Europe can earn more than a 757/767 Captain in the US.

When the open skies truly take effect look out for China. They are cornerning the freighter market with low pay too. I doubt that Brown and Purple will be able to compete with the Chinese for any length of time.

Perhaps management would stand up and take notice if all airline pilots were to unite as a whole. That's the first step to restoring self respect, worth, and value to the pilot. That's how students will learn how valuable they are.

The same goes for cabin crew too!

blastboy

DAL, I liked what you had to say and would like to hear your thoughts on how the US carriers can come up to par (or past it) with the European carriers. What can I do to make a better decision that will not only benefit me but the other pilots? I know brown and purple are the places to be right now but the major people carriers use to be the ultimate destination for just about every pilot. But it's not anymore. This is all a very confusing time for me because I grew up with the family flying for people carriers because it was the best place to be, and that was drilled into my head for 20 years! I'm almost tempted to go to Germany for a while to brush up on my Deutsche to get a job there. Compared to here, their pilots are being treated like royalty. I wonder if there's a DLH pilot who can chime in this too?? Danke!

threegreen

MAYBE, if US airlines can offer a better product, things could be differnt.

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/ma...07-release.htm

all of the airlines are well paid.

blastboy

Not surprising that a single US carrier was not #1 for a single thing on that website. To me, that says a lot.

The airlines are well paid but the pilots are underpaid, in my opinion.

Oldfreightdawg

Nicely done, and very interesting. It's a difficult comparison at best, since most European nations dabble in socialism style benefits. But encouraging none the less.

What would be even more interesting to know, and this is a question better asked in it's own forum, is how would a merger look between a foreign and US carrier? Does anybody know how the KLM-Air France thing went together?

blastboy

WHat happened to the KLM - Northwest thing??

Oldfreightdawg

Good question, I don't really know.I think they're still code sharing. But I think after BK, KLM's "investment" went away.

blastboy

Couldn't find anything except a story written by a customer who hated NWA but fell head over heels for KLM.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/trave...hwest-klm.html