European & Asian airline pay
 

Does anyone know how other foreign (particularly European and Asian) carriers pay?

Thanks,
Riddler

May not be much help, and can be a little hard to decipher.

But try ppjn.com

Try not to throw up at some of the Euro carriers. Specifically KLM and Lufthansna. Granted, the cost of living and taxes are high, it's still a lot of money.

Nice payscale for Lufthansa. Lufthansa Cityline pilots are well paid for a regional. Per diem is excellent. Hope it happens here sooner or later.

remembr that part of their package is an awsome retirement fund, 4 weeks vacation, 12 hollydays and an excellent healthcare system. o yeah, the college for your kids is almost free .

... but the government will take 50% +

:mad:What do you think our tax rate here in the US is when you factor in 30% Fed, State tax (8%), social security 7.5%, medicare 2%....bout the same...

Not exactly a Hillary fan; but in Bush's world you'll pay end up paying 15% on $20k if he has his way.

You can check and compare accurate salaries, benefits, and work conditions by contacting contracting companies that represent KAL, Air China, Jade Cargo and alike, such as Rishworth, PARC, Direct Personnel, GAP... etc.

dont forget you still have to put away anothr 10% at least of your pay for retirement, plus pay for your health insurance and your kids college tuition fund, that's more than 50% aded on your taxes. difference is in urope you still get it if you loose oyur job, here you are scewed.

Tell me one government that takes 50%+ in tax......

Sweden


Typhoonpilot

May not be true if you are a contract employee with a work visa. It depends on which country you are going to be based, the length of the contract, and your intentions about paying taxes in that particular country too. Sound advice from an immigration attorney is most essential. It's very important to understand that regulations in many countries concerning health and retirement are dynamic with changes.

France and Denmark also are at or above 50 percent in taxes. I hear the complaints daily by Frenchmen and Danes who left familes in their home country to come work at my airline.

Lifter

check your facts before you type stupid ****** like this! more people (poor people) have been removed from federal income tax rolls in Bush's tax cut than in the history of the federal income tax. what poor working people do pay is into the ponzy' scheme of social security. the above post is truly a new low in ignorance.

there's more than one. most have economy crushing social welfare systems and double digit unemployment.

Frances admitted unemployment rate is also more than double that of the US.

A friend of my dad that lives in austrailia says they take a lot but cant remember the exact percentage.

You'd think I asked for everyone's opinioins on socialism versus capitalism...

You might want to try pprune. That is a more global forum.

Guys, most if not ALL of the salaries in ppjn and in Europe in general are expressed in NET terms. If you ask a european how much he/she makes, they will tell you their NET salary (because of the high taxation). So when you read ppjn, keep in mind MOST of those amounts are NET!

A Lusthansa captain I know makes around 17,000 EUROs/month...NET that is. Do the math, it's almost $400k gross/year. Also, several european countries pay 13 and even 14 months per year (basically you get double salary in December and in some cases June, so in those countries you'd have to multiply the monthly salary accordingly).

These discussions are pointless unless you compare the cost of living. The Euro/Dollar exchange at 1.3 makes it look more than it really is. Having said that, he lives quite comfortably on that pay ;)

Sweet merciful crap, that's excellent pay! When is that kind of financial security ever going cross the pond? Now that's what a captain should get paid! Lufthansa sounds like they've got it together. Is that factoring in per diem?

Ich spreche schlects Deutsche. :o Maybe I can get a job their now. :D

Keep in mind Lufthansa is probably the highest paying airline in all Europe, so it's not representative of European pilot salaries. The majority make a LOT less. In the late 90's Delta pilots were making considerably more than the majority (if not all) of their European collegues.

Plus, as I said, comparing salaries is pointless without comparing purchasing power. What may seem like a lot of money really doesn't buy you much when living in places with costs of living higher than San Francisco or New York.

But still, making almost $400K a year will allow you to live very comfortable anywhere in the world. That's a lot of money anywhere you go.

KLM CA makes close lil over 250k euro

You guys have no clue here... They dont pay 50% tax of their salary. They might pay as much as 50% on parts of their salary (after it increases above an amout) but the total tax paid is below what you say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mployment_rate

How many European countries has double digit unemployment??

Some Eastern European nations have double digits but I assume we are all referring to western European countries. Didn't see double digits for those. But I've overlooked things before.

I wonder how many of the Euro Airlines are still be subsidized by their govt.... at one time many where.... I dont know about now though.

Riddler

...Does anyone know how other foreign (particularly European and Asian) carriers pay?...


Big Airways

1. These are GROSS BASIC SALARIES, based on flying 900 hrs per year.
   
   
2. These do not include any overtime (x1½) or training pay (+20%).
   
   
3. Hourly rates are included for comparison purposes only.
   
   
   
   • B747 Capt ..... Year 24 ..... £147,089 ..... $ 300,000 ..... $ 333 / hr
     
     
   • B777 Capt ..... Year 17 ..... £123,861 ..... $ 252,600 ..... $ 280 / hr
     
     
   • B737 Capt ..... Year 12 ..... £ 97,206 ...... $ 198,300 ..... $ 220 / hr
     
     
   • A320 Capt ..... Year 07 ..... £ 85,191 ...... $ 173,800 ..... $ 193 / hr
     
     
     
   • B747 SFO ..... Year 10 ..... £ 77,731 ....... $ 158,500 ..... $ 175 / hr
     
     
   • B777 SFO ..... Year 07 ..... £ 65,286 ....... $ 133,200 ..... $ 150 / hr
     
     
   • A320 FO ...... Year 01 ...... £ 55,330 ...... $ 112,800 ..... $ 125 / hr
     
     
     
4. Big Airways pilots paid primarily on Years of Service, then Seat, then Aircraft type.
   
   
5. On upgrade, change pay scales at your length of service point, Yr 07 SFO → Yr 07 Capt.
   
   
6. 6 weeks paid annual leave per year, plus a few unpaid days leave if requested.
   
   
7. Ballpark figure, most pilots will take home 60%-65% of their gross salary in the UK.
   
   
8. Cost of living and housing is undoubtedly higher in the UK than most of the USA.
   
   
9. Time to B747/B777 command currently around 17 years.

Regards

Bellerophon

Sadly, we in the U.S. don't get it. We keep reducing ourselves to the lowest common demoninator. The European carriers are mostly long haul and have established themselves as premier service providers that people are willing to pay top dollar for. The US carriers have cut to the bone in order to survive and have minimal infrastructure to handle the flying. Couple that with pilots who are willing to fly at JB, Skybus and Virgin America for $65-80K a year as a Captain is hurting everyone. In order to compete, everyone has to come down. This has been beaten to death over the past few years but it is our reality. The freight carriers who have a high barrier of entry don't have the competition so they are insulated from this. If we were smart, Alpa would establish apprenticeships in college and flight schools. We would educate pilots on the importance of not selling ourselves short just to take any job. Because the job we take to try to get to our dream jobs may indeed replace the dream job as they disappear.

Compare airfares with all carriers serving, lets say JFK and LHR. You will see that all airlines on this particular route are about the same in all classes of service whether the ticket is purchased at the last minute, or well in advance. You can also compare prices with online travel warehouses such as Orbitz, Travelocity, Priceline... etc.


A number of European carriers are short haul and home based with very decent wages.

Lets not forget the pilots of legacy carriers who accepted deep pay cuts along with the pilots of VA, SB and JB that accept low wages from the get go. Its sad that a 737 FO in Europe can earn more than a 757/767 Captain in the US.

When the open skies truly take effect look out for China. They are cornerning the freighter market with low pay too. I doubt that Brown and Purple will be able to compete with the Chinese for any length of time.

Perhaps management would stand up and take notice if all airline pilots were to unite as a whole. That's the first step to restoring self respect, worth, and value to the pilot. That's how students will learn how valuable they are.

The same goes for cabin crew too!

DAL, I liked what you had to say and would like to hear your thoughts on how the US carriers can come up to par (or past it) with the European carriers. What can I do to make a better decision that will not only benefit me but the other pilots? I know brown and purple are the places to be right now but the major people carriers use to be the ultimate destination for just about every pilot. But it's not anymore. :confused: This is all a very confusing time for me because I grew up with the family flying for people carriers because it was the best place to be, and that was drilled into my head for 20 years! I'm almost tempted to go to Germany for a while to brush up on my Deutsche to get a job there. Compared to here, their pilots are being treated like royalty. I wonder if there's a DLH pilot who can chime in this too?? Danke! ;)

MAYBE, if US airlines can offer a better product, things could be differnt.

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/ma...07-release.htm

all of the airlines are well paid.

Not surprising that a single US carrier was not #1 for a single thing on that website. To me, that says a lot.

The airlines are well paid but the pilots are underpaid, in my opinion.

Nicely done, and very interesting. It's a difficult comparison at best, since most European nations dabble in socialism style benefits. But encouraging none the less.

What would be even more interesting to know, and this is a question better asked in it's own forum, is how would a merger look between a foreign and US carrier? Does anybody know how the KLM-Air France thing went together?

WHat happened to the KLM - Northwest thing??

Good question, I don't really know.I think they're still code sharing. But I think after BK, KLM's "investment" went away.

Couldn't find anything except a story written by a customer who hated NWA but fell head over heels for KLM. :D
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/trave...hwest-klm.html