UAL Asset Sale/Breakup
08-18-2007, 06:58 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
UAL has done a lot for airline safety. UAL-ALPA has done more to raise the bar on wages and benefits that just about any other group. The ESOP turned into a disaster, but it was a cutting edge idea to tie both management and the company employees to the same ship.
There have been mistakes on both sides (summer of love--and about every management idea outside of running an airline they ever tried). However, a solid United has proven to be a good thing for unionized pilots everywhere.
Good luck guys...turn it around and make it good.
There have been mistakes on both sides (summer of love--and about every management idea outside of running an airline they ever tried). However, a solid United has proven to be a good thing for unionized pilots everywhere.
Good luck guys...turn it around and make it good.
08-18-2007, 08:21 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by Albief15
UAL has done a lot for airline safety. UAL-ALPA has done more to raise the bar on wages and benefits that just about any other group. The ESOP turned into a disaster, but it was a cutting edge idea to tie both management and the company employees to the same ship.
There have been mistakes on both sides (summer of love--and about every management idea outside of running an airline they ever tried). However, a solid United has proven to be a good thing for unionized pilots everywhere.
Good luck guys...turn it around and make it good.
There have been mistakes on both sides (summer of love--and about every management idea outside of running an airline they ever tried). However, a solid United has proven to be a good thing for unionized pilots everywhere.
Good luck guys...turn it around and make it good.
Great post Albief
08-18-2007, 09:02 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by 7576United
Funny how quickly a company can go from being on the verge of liquidation, to having too much money lying around.
UAL, from a financial standpoint, is doing well. The employees know this, and want to recover some lost wages. To keep the inmates from rioting, Tilton/Brace float the idea of being broken apart. Inmates retreat. Business as usual.
UAL, from a financial standpoint, is doing well. The employees know this, and want to recover some lost wages. To keep the inmates from rioting, Tilton/Brace float the idea of being broken apart. Inmates retreat. Business as usual.
This is the most logical explanation. Company is doing great financially.
USAirways is doing great too. Those that want to think UAL and USAir are still struggling are living in the past.
Tilton is such a scumbag. He has been talking about merging/selling UAL for some time with, what appears to be, little thought about UAL's strategic UAL's future. He appears to just want to cash in and check out.
No plane orders? What?
08-18-2007, 09:21 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
UAL is like Pan Am or Eastern?
Study of History is important and there are similarities. But there are key differences too. I have had just as hard of time digesting these differences as the next guy. In the last couple of years we have seen THE turnaround for UAL and USAirways, like it or not. I predict the factors that have resulted in this success to continue to generate profit and, eventually, growth. Wages? Don't know about that. Just like the problems that almost liquidated these companies took a long time to play out, the positive factors will also play out before someone else can "catch up". This is barring any unforseen changes. And there are always unforseen changes.
Nothing is certain, but those that have had the best careers in recent memory are those that get hired relatively young at relatively strong, growing airlines.
Who will be the best growers (best chance at mid-high seniority CA in 10-15 years) going forward? Maybe not SWA or JetBlue anymore. Probably Delta, USAirways, UAL, NWA, AA or CAL. Probably more than just one. Most likely not all.
Study of History is important and there are similarities. But there are key differences too. I have had just as hard of time digesting these differences as the next guy. In the last couple of years we have seen THE turnaround for UAL and USAirways, like it or not. I predict the factors that have resulted in this success to continue to generate profit and, eventually, growth. Wages? Don't know about that. Just like the problems that almost liquidated these companies took a long time to play out, the positive factors will also play out before someone else can "catch up". This is barring any unforseen changes. And there are always unforseen changes.
Nothing is certain, but those that have had the best careers in recent memory are those that get hired relatively young at relatively strong, growing airlines.
Who will be the best growers (best chance at mid-high seniority CA in 10-15 years) going forward? Maybe not SWA or JetBlue anymore. Probably Delta, USAirways, UAL, NWA, AA or CAL. Probably more than just one. Most likely not all.
08-18-2007, 10:07 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: A few
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by captjns
You're probably too young to remember but, Pan Am sold off assets to stay afloat ranging from a major hotel chain, Hotel Intercontinental, and routes to various airline, including UAL who got the Pacific Routes. I remember when Pan Am boasted it would be the first airline to provide commercial space travel.
The Eastern Airlines which was made of many companies within a company either sold off at lower than market value, or transferred divisions to, I beleive it was Texas Air Corp., ranging from a sophisticated reservations system, and fueling service which were then leased back to EAL at inflated prices. So in that case it was a double whammy if you will.
So tell me Lambourne, put down the Kool Aide and tell me why it can't happen to UAL? What makes you think that the Board of Directors will do the right thing by its shareholders, and employees?
The Eastern Airlines which was made of many companies within a company either sold off at lower than market value, or transferred divisions to, I beleive it was Texas Air Corp., ranging from a sophisticated reservations system, and fueling service which were then leased back to EAL at inflated prices. So in that case it was a double whammy if you will.
So tell me Lambourne, put down the Kool Aide and tell me why it can't happen to UAL? What makes you think that the Board of Directors will do the right thing by its shareholders, and employees?
If UA is going to be broken up, why are they investing over 100 million dollars to upgrade international business and first (which blows everyone else out of the water BTW)?
Further, perhaps if you have read some of the reports from the annual share-holder meetings you MIGHT know that UA has flat out said that that they are holding off on new aircraft orders until they pay down debt in order to obtain better interest rates on the aircraft.
UA has one of the best pilot groups in this industry. They struck the B-scale, fought for an industry-leading contract, and are generally a cut above the average guy.
I have had one UA bus captain buy me a buy-on-board meal on a red-eye transcon because I was broke. When I asked how I could repay him, he told me he would take the money only if he "saw me on the line" one day.
I have seen another bus captain tell a gate agent to do his d@mn job and to get the ****** off of his plane when the gate agent was too lazy to re-tag a NRSA's bag and would have caused the SA to mis his connection in Denver.
Why you have it out for this company, I don't know. Perhaps you were turned down at an interview or they lost your mother's bags last Christmas. Either way, you need to get with the times and get the facts before you spew such drivel.
08-21-2007, 03:24 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by Lambourne
Heard that from some of the pilots that have significant DOH's here at UAL! So you like to cross picket lines? Nice, at least we now know what we are dealing with when it comes to you.
Sure. If this was the case you would not be here grinding your gears over not being employed at UAL. You missed your chance and now are determined to ruin the party for anyone else. As to who you fly for? I have my suspicions and based on the fact you show a picture of a 747, but list a guppy as your a/c type you most likely work for one of the companies that is starting to feel the pinch of operating cost now that fuel hedges are expiring. You have airplane envy and even no matter how good you think you have it at your "luv"ley employer you feel a need to bash the company that you really wanted to work for all along.
You have still failed to properly align UAL with your EAL and PA analogy. So far the pilots have not enacted a sympathy strike for the IAM ala EAL. UAL has not sold the company in pieces to other leaving nothing. If you remember PA did not have a true us hub presence. Whereas UAL has significant hubs in the US and Japan.
Again I am not saying it will never happen. I just believe that your knowledge of what is "UAL" is limited to the excrement filtered glasses you wear.
Sure. If this was the case you would not be here grinding your gears over not being employed at UAL. You missed your chance and now are determined to ruin the party for anyone else. As to who you fly for? I have my suspicions and based on the fact you show a picture of a 747, but list a guppy as your a/c type you most likely work for one of the companies that is starting to feel the pinch of operating cost now that fuel hedges are expiring. You have airplane envy and even no matter how good you think you have it at your "luv"ley employer you feel a need to bash the company that you really wanted to work for all along.
You have still failed to properly align UAL with your EAL and PA analogy. So far the pilots have not enacted a sympathy strike for the IAM ala EAL. UAL has not sold the company in pieces to other leaving nothing. If you remember PA did not have a true us hub presence. Whereas UAL has significant hubs in the US and Japan.
Again I am not saying it will never happen. I just believe that your knowledge of what is "UAL" is limited to the excrement filtered glasses you wear.
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how you decided/determined that Captjn's works for SWA. Your comments about fuel hedging options running out are entertaining because I certainly am not worried as one of those LUVley employees you mentioned. What keeps you up a night? Perhaps your career should be in better shape than it is? Oh! and please help me understand what "aircraft envy" is because I certainly have not had that problem since being employed by the airlines. I have however watched as the "legacies" have imploded and now stink pay/benifit wise as compared to FEDEX/UPS and others. I also don't see the income necessary to justify huge increases for any pilot's pay at the legacy airlines.
08-22-2007, 05:49 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
As a corporate pilot that flies on all the major airlines a lot, I can say that United's service level is so bad that it would not surprise me in the least if management just threw in the towel, started selling assets, and took the money and ran.
The problems seem too big to fix. The flight crews I've met have all been great. Unfortunately, they have the least control in fixing the situation. They can't fix the joke in India that passes for the customer service center. They can't fix the disaster that is the baggage handling in O'Hare (in April, it took 5 days for United to get my bags from San Diego to Richmond. Another time, we sat at the gate for an hour because the baggage handlers forgot to load the bags on the plane). They can't fix the fact that when I check in for a flight in IAD or ORD, there are huge lines at the ticket counters and only 5 customer service agents working while there are 30 electronic kiosks sitting unused because nobody can check bags at them or because they aren't turned on/out of order.
I hate to even think about an icon like United going away. It's bad for pilots in general. But, I've been flying 30k miles/year on United for the last 4 years, and I have seen nothing but declines in all aspects of their operations.
The problems seem too big to fix. The flight crews I've met have all been great. Unfortunately, they have the least control in fixing the situation. They can't fix the joke in India that passes for the customer service center. They can't fix the disaster that is the baggage handling in O'Hare (in April, it took 5 days for United to get my bags from San Diego to Richmond. Another time, we sat at the gate for an hour because the baggage handlers forgot to load the bags on the plane). They can't fix the fact that when I check in for a flight in IAD or ORD, there are huge lines at the ticket counters and only 5 customer service agents working while there are 30 electronic kiosks sitting unused because nobody can check bags at them or because they aren't turned on/out of order.
I hate to even think about an icon like United going away. It's bad for pilots in general. But, I've been flying 30k miles/year on United for the last 4 years, and I have seen nothing but declines in all aspects of their operations.
08-22-2007, 06:51 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by correcting
As a corporate pilot that flies on all the major airlines a lot, I can say that United's service level is so bad that it would not surprise me in the least if management just threw in the towel, started selling assets, and took the money and ran.
The problems seem too big to fix. The flight crews I've met have all been great. Unfortunately, they have the least control in fixing the situation. They can't fix the joke in India that passes for the customer service center. They can't fix the disaster that is the baggage handling in O'Hare (in April, it took 5 days for United to get my bags from San Diego to Richmond. Another time, we sat at the gate for an hour because the baggage handlers forgot to load the bags on the plane). They can't fix the fact that when I check in for a flight in IAD or ORD, there are huge lines at the ticket counters and only 5 customer service agents working while there are 30 electronic kiosks sitting unused because nobody can check bags at them or because they aren't turned on/out of order.
I hate to even think about an icon like United going away. It's bad for pilots in general. But, I've been flying 30k miles/year on United for the last 4 years, and I have seen nothing but declines in all aspects of their operations.
The problems seem too big to fix. The flight crews I've met have all been great. Unfortunately, they have the least control in fixing the situation. They can't fix the joke in India that passes for the customer service center. They can't fix the disaster that is the baggage handling in O'Hare (in April, it took 5 days for United to get my bags from San Diego to Richmond. Another time, we sat at the gate for an hour because the baggage handlers forgot to load the bags on the plane). They can't fix the fact that when I check in for a flight in IAD or ORD, there are huge lines at the ticket counters and only 5 customer service agents working while there are 30 electronic kiosks sitting unused because nobody can check bags at them or because they aren't turned on/out of order.
I hate to even think about an icon like United going away. It's bad for pilots in general. But, I've been flying 30k miles/year on United for the last 4 years, and I have seen nothing but declines in all aspects of their operations.
Today the airline business is about making money for the executives to steal and hide in their retirement accounts.
United, along with the rest of the airlines is doing a good job at this.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
