You might want to take a closer look at UAL's contract before you make such a statement. They took a huge hit, obviously resulting from the pressure of chapter 11. :eek:

I still stand by my statement- if pilot groups keep allowing the industry (management...)to keep raising that productivity bar the only thing left to attack will be payrates. Those fuel hedges won't last forever.

As far as United is concerned, their fate was sealed both by bad management and a pension liability - the latter being yet another bullet that SW has dodged because they don't have a traditional pension. Well UAL, USAir, and soon, DAL won't be burdened either. Do the math in this race to the bottom

737
 

I think a 737 pilot should earn more than a 777 guy. Sure a 777 guy has more at risk for one leg a day. The 737 guy at SWA has smaller groups of people but has 6 legs, so if you add it up the 737 has more pax in a day than does a 777.

SkyHigh

Who said a 777 only flies one leg a day? DAL flies 777's to MCO and back to ATL all the time. Also, why wouldn't you factor in how LONG a crew is responsible for those 350 pax? A one hr leg with 100 people vs a 12 hr leg with 350? 6 legs/ 6 hrs as opposed to the 12 hrs? More math....There are several ways to look at this productivity thing

Oh yeah, I forgot about those 7+ leg a day commuter pilots - should they be paid more than SW guys? - a full 70 seat rj could just about match a 737 if enough legs are flown

Productivity
 

Cutnrun--

You're right, it is very dificult to quantify the productivity aspect. In the end I guess you and I are just passengers on the bus racing to the bottom. Enjoy flying that giant airplane of yours. That thing sure is nice!

Respectfully,

S.B.

Productivity bad? wtfo?
 

Cut,
Whats wrong with productivity? If I could get 80+ hours in 10 days and have 20 days off per month I'd be in heaven!

Why work 15-20 days to get 80 hours when you can do it in 10? Unless you like being away from home, hate your wife and kids, got a girl on the side, like eating airport food, sleeping in hotels, then go for it. If you like work rules that pay you for not flying (rig) that is great, but it hurts the company and thus your security and profit sharing sharing.

It is PRODUCTIVITY that gives you max days off for the same hours flown. Better productivity for the pilot group means more days off, a small decrease in the needed pilots to fly the operations, which means less cost, which means more profit, which means more profit sharing and job security. And don't worry about the small decrease in pilots. The way SWA is hiring, a small decrease in the total hiring would be a drop in the bucket.

I wouldn't call it a race. UAL, DAL, USAir, etc are racing to the bottom, but SWA is still move forward and racing to the top. You can't win a race when you are in reverse.

Just my opinion.....

FNG

FNG, That pretty much sums it up! Nicely said.

SWAPA had an analyst come in and do a comparison to what we do vs. other airlines. The big # that jumped out at me was SWA pilots average 19300 pax per pilot vs. 11750 for the rest of the industry.

I'll end my part of this debate with a last comment. I see an almost never ending attack on this profession. One that will not cease until a pilot in India makes near what a pilot in Atlanta makes. SW is on the top now but it's just a matter of time before they're squarely in the crosshairs of a well financed, lower cost competitor. Yes, DAL, UAL, and USAir have been racing to the bottom but to think SW is immune to competition and won't have to face real world market forces is hubris of the worst kind. I wish you all the best