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TBoneF15 12-26-2007 06:02 PM

(Why) does Delta reserve suck?
 
I'm a Delta new hire, starting indoc on Jan 7th. My background is all military, so I don't understand most of the airline world yet. I'm trying to figure out how I'll bid at indoc (if there's a choice) or on the Feb AE I keep seeing in posts.

As I read all these threads I see a lot of "reserve sucks" -type comments. I'm trying to understand the whole story of why. I'm sure someone out there is having a coronary right now because it should be obvious, but it's not to me.

I'm an AF reservist and will live near that job, so I'll be a commuter. Is being away from home on reserve and flying irregularly much worse than being away from home and holding less-than-ideal, low-seniority lines? When you factor in the pay scales and the possible cooler trip factor of the bigger jets, sitting reserve for a while doesn't seem that heinous (except the sitting around the crashpad part).

Where am I wrong?

Jughead 12-26-2007 06:20 PM

Being on reserve sucks, but commuting to reserve sucks more. Keep in mind scheduling can (and often does) put you on short call up to eight times a month. This means "promptly available" (a term not technically defined, but two hours seems to be a good starting point). A crash pad will be required in your domicile as a commuter - eight nights a month in a hotel will add up quickly.

There is way too much to discuss in this thread about the reserve system at Delta, but the learning curve is steep. Welcome aboard - you'll catch on quickly. :)

luv757 12-26-2007 07:05 PM

Reserve sucks anywhere. As a commuter your best bet is to bid what you can hold a line on fastest. The worst line is better than the best reserve (if you commute) simply because it is more predictable and you can plan your life a lot better. Good luck with the Big D! Military to airline is a bit of an adjustment but it is totally worth it in my opinion. My mantra is if my commander, my chief pilot and my significant other are all mad at me for spending too much time with the other two, i am spread about right for the month!

EvilGN 12-26-2007 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by luv757 (Post 287222)
Reserve sucks anywhere. As a commuter your best bet is to bid what you can hold a line on fastest. The worst line is better than the best reserve (if you commute) simply because it is more predictable and you can plan your life a lot better. Good luck with the Big D! Military to airline is a bit of an adjustment but it is totally worth it in my opinion. My mantra is if my commander, my chief pilot and my significant other are all mad at me for spending too much time with the other two, i am spread about right for the month!

That has to be the best advice for any married airline pilot with a reserve job.

tomgoodman 12-26-2007 08:53 PM

Commuting to reserve
 
I found it useful to volunteer for short call (any trip, the longer the better). It got me out of the commuter hotel quickly, and often with a much better trip than if I had just waited for scheduling to call me. Sometimes they would even offer me a choice between two or three available trips.

acl65pilot 12-26-2007 09:12 PM

I have tried that many times. They keep telling me that my raw value was to high to fly any of the current trips in the pot. I generally wait for someone to call in sick, then I get called.

hjs1971 12-27-2007 04:53 AM

As Jughead wrote, commuting to reserve sucks but if you live in your domicile, sitting a M-Th reserve line was better than holding a Th-M hard line IMHO...at some airlines, if you are senior and bid reserve (especially at an airline with a lot of new hire training going on), you can be home (at least) 27 days a month...man, those were good days!

I commuted to my guard job and found that easier than commuting to my airline gig but that was all pre 9/11, things have def. changed since then...

tantrum 12-27-2007 05:01 AM

Reserve at Delta is really not that bad...if you live in base. The past three months I've worked 8 days, 10 days, and 10 days. Since I live in base that basically means I had 22 days off, 21 days off, and 21 days off. Yes, that means I only made min guarantee and low per diem, but I can live with that. If I didn't live in base, all that off time would have been spent away from home, and that's when things suck since you're really just wasting your time waiting for them to call you.

Every month they seem to put me on short call about 2-3 times...never even close to the max of 8 times. When sitting on long call, you can look and see exactly how many people are in front of you to be called in first before you get a call. If you have 10 guys in front of you and open time has already been assigned, it's a pretty good bet you probably (not definitely) won't work that day. There are definitely ways to work the system to your advantage and you will pick up on some of those early on.

In my opinion, being on reserve while living in base is probably better than the most junior lines. But what the most junior line does give you is the ability to swap/drop trips and build up a schedule to 80-90 hours so you can make extra money...once off first year pay, 15-20 extra hours can be pretty significant. On reserve, it can be kind of challenging to swap yours days off around.

For quality of life issues, it would be much better to live in base and commute to your reserve duties than the other way around...no matter whether you are on reserve or you are holding a line. I've commuted in the past and believe me, it may seem easy at times, but the times where everything goes to crap and you start missing flights will frustrate the hell out of you.

seaav8tor 12-27-2007 05:39 AM

Reserve at most airlines is not desirable.

I commute to reserve. Due to the zones and the commute I end up home 7 days per month. Not much of a home life. If you are single the variety could open up possibilities for a very interesting mix. If you have a wife and kids at home 7 days per month really doesn't cut it.

sigtauenus 12-27-2007 06:21 AM

Wow, great post Tantrum, makes me want to pack up the wife and kids after I get hired.

ewrbasedpilot 12-27-2007 06:36 AM

Welcome to the world of the airlines!!! One thing about reserve is that you can either let it make your life miserable, or you can just grin and bear it and make the best of it. The latter is the best option. Everyone (well most), knows the life of a reservist isn't a cakewalk, but their are things you can do to make life a bit better for yourself. The first and most important is to TREAT THE SCHEDULERS NICELY. They can either be your best friend or worst enemy. If you're nice to them, you'll get the best of the worst trips (and cream of the crop pairings do show up)....and vice versa if you're a horses butt to them. Scheduling knows the troublemakers and does little to help them out. DON'T get on their sh*t list!! Another thing is to find a nice crashpad that becomes your "home away from home". My advice is to find one with as few pilots in it as possible so you're not competing for a nice bed or quiet room for the night. You may spend a lot of time there so make it one you won't mind being in. If you pay a few dollars more, it may well be worth it in the long run! Good luck with your new career at DAL and have fun!!

TBoneF15 12-27-2007 11:38 AM

I still don't get it.

WHY does reserve suck so bad that I would want to take an 88 over a 7ER? (besides the crashpad part) Why is it less predictable?...you know what days you will be on reserve, don't you? Do you end up away from home (as a commuter) much more on reserve than on the line?

seaav8tor 12-27-2007 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by TBoneF15 (Post 287461)
I still don't get it.

Single, no commitments, live in base..... reserve is no big deal (perhaps a good deal).

Married, kids, commuting to reserve...... big deal.

It really depends on your situation if reserve is bad.

Albief15 12-27-2007 12:24 PM

T-bone,

I'm at FDX, not Delta, so I don't know the ins and outs of your reserve rules. However, I have bid PM reserve in Memphis a few times and sprung for my own hotel. Here's some of the stuff I've done during that time:

1. Completed ACSC and about 50% of AWC
2. Written some of my courseware
3. Worked out at local gyms
4. Gambled at Tunica
5. Explored the countryside driving around on pretty days
6. Visited libraries
7. Gone hiking...
8. Pay bills, balance accounts, send overdue letters to friends, etc etc

You get the idea...

If you want to lay around a stinky crashpad smelling 8 other guys, you can do it. You can also spring for a nice pad with a room of your own or (in some locations...maybe not NYC) get a hotel at 40-50 a night. Probably not perfect as a new hire but once your salary pops up it ain't so bad.

I don't look at reserve as a bad deal--I look at it as getting paid to do what I want/need to do during that time. I used to do all my military queep on that time, so when I was home I could enjoy my time with family. No excuse for carrying lots of extra fudge around if you have access to a local gym--paid to work out doesn't stink either.

I think its a mind-set. I love to fly, but I also work for money. If the company is willing to pay me for not working some days, I can find something productive to do with the time. Some guys hate it--end up bored in front of a TV--but that isn't my style. This month I'm lucky enough to hold 24 hour callout at FDX, and the days I'm not working I'm paid to be working on our farm. You can't do that from the Langley area, but you can figure out some of the other queep you need to do in life and use the time wisely.

Also--like most new guys--you think about MONEY. You want to follow MONEY right now. After you taste being able to control your schedule a bit (something the AF never let you do...) you will start to like CONTROL, and you will resent anything that diminishes that control. That is probably why guys hate reserve more than anything besides time off....it takes away their ability to move trips, trade, and control their day to day life. You, however, have another tool (mil leave) that will help you manage your schedule. You'll be working hard as you do 2 jobs, but having done it 6 years I can also say you'll enjoy a lot of the aspects of both jobs too.

Good luck on your new adventures...

JC Dude 12-27-2007 12:27 PM

Reserve
 
Reserve in a nutshell is sitting around on alert. You have scheduled days on and off. Scheduling will call you when they can't fill a trip with the normal person. Sometimes you get notice in advance, sometimes you get called last minute (around 2 hours). Not sure about passing on trips at Delta (I'm Fedex) but that can help with the quality of the trip you get. Otherwise you generally get a crappy trip that someone else doesn't want to fly. Crappy is relative to the time of the year. If the weather is cold and snowing in the NE there is a good bet trips in that direction will go to a reserve guy.

Reserve usually sucks because you are away from home waiting to be called to go to work. You know the days you are going to be at work but you don't know where or if you'll be going. If you live near your base reserve could be great (getting paid to stay at home and wait to be called).

If you have a regular line you know where you're going and when, although the schedule of days you have to work can be worse than that of a reserve line. At Fedex you can't swap reserve days for trips, so having a crappy line with trips allows you swap for other trips and to try and improve your schedule.

As has been said, reserve is what you make it. Go in with a good attitude and it makes the time go faster.

Hope this helps.

JC Dude

Bucking Bar 12-27-2007 12:35 PM

T Bone:

In my view reserve does not suck, especially when compared to the lack of control a pilot has over his life while serving his Country.

It is much easier if you live in domicile and can avoid a sometimes stressful commute as well as sit time away from home.

Delta's reserve system allows you to get into the system to see where you are on the list of reserve pilots and even put in preferences for trips you want, (which are sometimes granted depending on your seniority and other factors). Trading days off can be done but in reality, it rarely works out. You will quickly learn how to raise, or lower, your raw score and move around on the list to manipulate the system to meet your needs. (don't even worry about it until training is over)

As a new hire who only cares about Saturdays off, I bid and get what I want 50 to75% of the time. I also try to get certain trips and usually fly fewer legs than my friends who hold a schedule.

Your wife, or significant other, has similar pass benefits to yours, so they can meet you on a trip if the stretch away from home becomes too much. Delta stays in nice hotels on the longer layovers - the wife and I have seen Broadway plays, Disney, Boston and the San Antonio riverwalk while out flying reserve rotations.

Overall, I will probably continue to bid reserve until I can hold better trips. I fly a 2, a 3, or occassionally a 4 day trip usually only once a week with fairly senior Captains. Most days have a 12 hour call out - so mostly those days are a day off until assigned a rotation for the next day. It isn't bad.

The MD88 is the place to be your first year. The shorter trips, number of trips, number of legal combinations and quick seniority upgrade combine to make it a better choice than a jet with a smaller fleet, longer trips, and senior First Officers. It also helps to fly with Captains that have not completely forgot what it is like to be the new guy. Just my humble opinion. The 76ER guys may be enjoying much better beer and tell you I'm nuts.

Roll Inverted and Pull 12-27-2007 01:33 PM

Here`s one point that hasn`t been discussed. During your first year, you have no union protection. Firing you can be done quite easily. Missing a couple of trips because you just can`t make it to your crew base due to WX, full planes,etc. can get you in a world of trouble. Factor this in to your decision about commuting to your crew base. About a dozen or so of the previous posters have advised you to live at your base. That`s good advice.

Archie Bunker 12-27-2007 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by TBoneF15 (Post 287461)
I still don't get it.

WHY does reserve suck so bad that I would want to take an 88 over a 7ER? (besides the crashpad part) Why is it less predictable?...you know what days you will be on reserve, don't you? Do you end up away from home (as a commuter) much more on reserve than on the line?

TBone,

I used to fly for Delta, now I'm at UPS. I used to commute to reserve for almost my entire 6 year career at Delta, and while it did suck, you do get used to it.

I quit Delta in May '06, so I don't think any of the reserve rules have changed since then. I can't comment on international reserve since I was never able to hold the 7ER...but I do know that the rules are different. I believe the main difference was that Intl reserve had some kind of 24 hour reserve callout period. Maybe some Delta ER guy can comment.

Regarding domestic reserve...one of my commutes was living in SAN, and commuting to ATL (MD-88). First off, reserve is more unpredictable because you don't know if you'll be sitting in your crashpad twiddling your thumbs for a week, or flying every day. You have to be there the entire time either way. A line holder knows exactly when and where he is flying, and won't be commuting to domicile as much as a reserve guy....nor will he be sitting on his keister waiting for a phone call.

That being said, there are two types of reserve at Delta....long call and short call. Long call is a minimum 12 hours notice for a callout (usually longer). You can normally check your computer the day before to see if you've been assigned a trip for the next day. If you live close enough to domicile, you can stand long call from home (I couldn't do this while based in ATL and living in SAN).....which leads us to short call. You can be assigned short call up to 8 times a month, and must be "promptly available" (most Delta guys I know interpret this as a 2 hour call out). You are on short call for a predetermined 12 hour period (scheduling will call you, or you can check your computer). Unless you live in domicile, you will need to be in your crashpad (or nearby) to make it to the airport in time.

If I would have lived in ATL, I would have been sitting on my butt at home, instead of some skanky crashpad, or budget motel. This is infinitely better than commuting to reserve. Can you see the difference? Getting paid to hang out at home, and maybe called to fly, or spending 18 days away from home in a petri dish lab experiment of a crashpad waiting for a phone call.

One thing I forgot to mention.....while on reserve, the most days I ever had off in a row was 4. This equates to commuting to domicile approximately twice a week. If you get lucky and bid off days back to back (between two bid periods), you could have 8 days off in a row! Since Delta has PBS (Preferential Bidding System) now, you might get more days off in a row, I don't know.

Bottom line.....live in domicile, and your QOL increases tenfold.

FlyingViking 12-27-2007 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by Archie Bunker (Post 287529)
TBone,

Maybe some Delta ER guy can comment.

If I would have lived in ATL, I would have been sitting on my butt at home, instead of some skanky crashpad, or budget motel. This is infinitely better than commuting to reserve. Can you see the difference? Getting paid to hang out at home, and maybe called to fly, or spending 18 days away from home in a petri dish lab experiment of a crashpad waiting for a phone call.

Bottom line.....live in domicile, and your QOL increases tenfold.

No doubt about this post. I have tried the commuting life for a while and I am done! I managed to keep my family, but many don't. As for now, I am packing it up and moving to base. Picture the ability to go fishing, work in your home office or work shop or chill at home - all while being paid and sit on reserve. That is what making the best out of it is all about. I consider myself lucky for being able to make this move and look forward to sit on reserve at home. If you have ANY chance of living in base, do it! See if you can find one post on this board, or any other boards, that suggest commuting is a good thing and base your decissions on that. Lots of experience on this board from people that is willing to guide you in the right direction and help you out, take the advice.

TBoneF15 12-27-2007 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by Albief15 (Post 287491)
Also--like most new guys--you think about MONEY. You want to follow MONEY right now. After you taste being able to control your schedule a bit (something the AF never let you do...) you will start to like CONTROL, and you will resent anything that diminishes that control. That is probably why guys hate reserve more than anything besides time off....it takes away their ability to move trips, trade, and control their day to day life.

Thank you brother. The lightbulb is now on.

TBoneF15 12-27-2007 04:07 PM

Thanks fellas. Good words.

Cheers,
T-Bone

flybynuts 12-27-2007 04:18 PM

Is the Age 65 affecting the hiring at DAL?

Albief15 12-27-2007 04:45 PM


Originally Posted by flybynuts (Post 287633)
Is the Age 65 affecting the hiring at DAL?

Delta had a huge group of retirements when they approached BK a few years back. That left a huge void in the over 50 crowd on the property. Delta is hiring for international growth, not retirements, so the effect at Delta will be much less than carriers like SWA or FDX where there is a more mature work force. I'm unsure of the impact at CAL.

FlyingViking 12-27-2007 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by flybynuts (Post 287633)
Is the Age 65 affecting the hiring at DAL?

Not for now they told us. The last I heard was still 628 to be hired by September of 2008.:D

tripled 12-27-2007 08:35 PM

reserve lifespan:

How long are newhires expecting to sit reserve before holding a line?

1) on the 88 JFK
2) on the 88 ATL
3) on the 7er JFK
4) on the 7er ATL
5) on the 75/76 ATL

obviously the 88JFK reserve lifespan is short.

Also, it's been said that with 600+ newhires expected in 08, most 07 newhires won't have to worry about reserve that much. fact or crap?

StripAlert 12-28-2007 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by tripled (Post 287783)
reserve lifespan:

How long are newhires expecting to sit reserve before holding a line?

1) on the 88 JFK
2) on the 88 ATL
3) on the 7er JFK
4) on the 7er ATL
5) on the 75/76 ATL

obviously the 88JFK reserve lifespan is short.

Also, it's been said that with 600+ newhires expected in 08, most 07 newhires won't have to worry about reserve that much. fact or crap?

I started in October, 7ER out of JFK. In the November advance entitlement (conversions complete by June), I bid to go to ATL if projected to hold a line, stay in NYC if projected to hold a line, then to go to ATL regardless. The NYC lineholder preference was what hit, so I take that to mean that Scheduling predicts I'll be senior enough to hold a line by June. That checks with my own amateur analysis of the category movement and growth, and with the new hire assignments after me.

That having been said, there are literally hundreds of F/O's senior to me that could throw all of that out of whack if they decide to bid in on top of me during the next AE. However, as #8 from the bottom in category going into the last AE, I actually moved up a net 14 spots toward the top because of guys bidding out to the new NYC777 category and backfilling the resulting 7ER captain slots. And there have been roughly 60 hired below me due to category growth, so it's looking pretty good.

Take all of this with a grain of salt. I'm finishing int'l OE next week and haven't spent day 1 on reserve yet. Hopefully, though, there won't be too many days sitting around the crash pad or pilot's lounge due to all this hiring.

I have been looking at the reserve staffing and assignments lately trying to get my bearings (much like a pig staring at a wristwatch), and here is what I've gleaned: Looks like even over Christmas, there were about 5-6 trips assigned to reserves a day. Almost all of those had 24+ hour notification, although a couple were under 8 hours and one was around 3. I am making an uneducated assumption that all the 15+ hour notice trips went to long-call guys, while obviously those under 12 hours went to short call. I'm hoping that means that they aren't putting too many guys on short call and that I'll be able to pick up flying pretty reliably when I am on short call.

Something else to look at, from a military reservist standpoint, is how taking mil leave can accelerate your line holding. At Delta (and someone correct me if I have this wrong) all lines must fall within a window of ±7.5 hours of the average line value for the month to be legal. Say, for simplicity's sake, that the average line value is 72 hours, typically 4 trips of 18 hour value each. Near the bottom of the PBS run, there may not be enough trips that don't conflict with one another to construct a legal line that falls within ALV ± 7.5 hrs. However, if you had a week of mil leave in there, each day reduces your target ALV (and guarantee) by a certain amount (I think it's 3 hours). So, with 5 days of mil leave, you only need rotations that fall between 49.5 and 64.5 hours, which might be doable with what's left over, effectively making you a lineholder before someone senior to you that didn't take any mil leave. Obviously, it's all chance still, because you don't know if the days you picked to drill will work out, but at least there's a better chance, and besides, military flying beats sitting around a crash pad on reserve and the pay's better.

For me, the 7ER vs. MD-88 was a no-brainer before I even really started analyzing it. Coming off international long-haul flying, I can't imagine going to domestic multi-leg days. I was whipped after doing my domestic OE's, and the most legs I did in a day there was 3. For me, I prefer to get paid for my work, so multiple pre-flights and bag-drags and three-hour productivity sits in LGA is not for me. I don't want to do a 14 hour day for <8 hours of pay and then spend 10 hours in a dumpy hotel near the airport and do it all again tomorrow. I'd rather bag all that nickel and dime time up and spend it on a nice 24 hour layover in Europe. (I think there will even be a time when I'm sitting in the hotel in Lagos surfing APC thinking that it's still better than dragging my bag from B34 to T1 in ATL to make a 45 minute turn...)

Also, all the NYC7ER trips are late afternoon/early evening reports and late morning/early afternoon releases, so they're all very commutable. As a domestic guy in ATL (even on the 767), there are lots of early reports, meaning that you'd probably need a crash pad even as a line holder.

Again, this is just what I think I've figured out as a new guy. Could be all wrong, but, as others have mentioned in previous threads, there really aren't any crappy deals here right now if you're on board in the top half of the hiring wave.

slinky 12-28-2007 05:25 AM

Strip

You are correct about the mil leave lowering the target ALV to the point where you can get a line junior to where you normally would. One of the guys in my pad, NYC 7er, does just that. I was speaking with him yesterday about this very subject.

He just projects out his mil leave and hopes the decrease in ALV will get him a line. Warning to this technique*** if you do not get a line all your * and X days will go over your mil leave days and you will have effectively destroyed your time with dash 2.

slinky

TBoneF15 12-28-2007 05:57 AM

OK, but how much mil leave do I want to be throwing around in my first year? Is that a trick to save until off of probation?

StripAlert 12-28-2007 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by TBoneF15 (Post 287931)
OK, but how much mil leave do I want to be throwing around in my first year? Is that a trick to save until off of probation?

Delta is mil-friendly. I'm fortunate that I have a very flexible reserve unit, and I can pretty much drill as little or as much as I want, so long as I meet the mins for the year. I have talked to some AF guys (flying the same aircraft) who are required to give 5-8 days a month or more, so Delta is used to the requests.

As long as you don't abuse it by taking it last minute, using it to drop the undesirable trips, using it over holidays, or do something stupid like non-rev with your wife to Hawaii on Delta when you're supposed to be drilling (an actual story I've heard), you should be fine.

Anybody who's actually had experience want to chime in?

LOBO 12-28-2007 08:05 AM

TBone,
Don't know if I have created a bad name for myself or not but I finshed a little over 120 hours on the MD88 and started MIL Leave from Oct 15th thru probably June 15th or so. I did the Palace Chase gig and so I kinda need to start training on the new AF aircraft.

No one at Delta batted an eye about me taking leave so soon or for how long.

And the MIL leave during the month thing works. I took half of the month of OCT and I ended up with a line for two weeks. (The month before I was the last guy in the category)

OttoA10 12-28-2007 09:45 AM

Another question on sitting reserve:

I will be in the 7 Jan class and since my background is all military, am trying to get smarter on the Delta system. My reserve unit is about a 4.5 hour drive from ATL. Am I correct in thinking that if my domicile was ATL, I would be able to sit long reserve at home (co-located with my reserve unit)?

Thanks for the help.

Archie Bunker 12-28-2007 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by OttoA10 (Post 288041)
Another question on sitting reserve:

I will be in the 7 Jan class and since my background is all military, am trying to get smarter on the Delta system. My reserve unit is about a 4.5 hour drive from ATL. Am I correct in thinking that if my domicile was ATL, I would be able to sit long reserve at home (co-located with my reserve unit)?

Thanks for the help.

You could easily sit long call from your home.....short call, on the other hand, wouldn't be possible. You would have to get a crashpad or hotel for up to 8 days a month. Trust me, this would suck.

If I were you, I would move to ATL, and commute to your military reserve unit, instead of the other way around. I mean, which job is going to be your bread and butter for the next 25 years? Your QOL would be 100 times better than the way you are set up now. Trust me, in the long run it will be well worth the move, and you will thank me.

Sitting long and short call from your living room, in your underwear, and watching the NFL on your big screen TV is so much more satisfying than the Super 8 motel on the south side of Hartsfield, or a nasty crashpad in College Park or East Point with 10 of your best pilot friends. You'd be getting paid to hang around your house with your family. Even if you end up being a line holder in a short period of time, the task of simply driving to the airport in a reasonable amount of time (less than an hour) is made easy by living in the ATL area, instead of 4.5 hours away.

Good luck to you.

ITSALLGOOD 12-28-2007 12:32 PM

Otto, Just to confuse you even more, I will respectfully disagree with Archie. In my reserve unit, only 2 of the 12 airline guys moved to their airline domicile...the rest stayed local. The 2 who moved only did so to work in the training dept or become an ACP. They are only able to drill for one week each month (and have to take MIL leave at the airline to do it = less pay) and are constantly going out of currency with the unit. Guys who live local can can come in with just 24 hours notice to pick up a quick 200+ bucks when it suits them. My point is archie's blanket statement that it is better to move away from your reserve gig to live in domicile does not apply to all...in fact, what I have seen is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Archie Bunker 12-28-2007 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by ITSALLGOOD (Post 288131)
Otto, Just to confuse you even more, I will respectfully disagree with Archie. In my reserve unit, only 2 of the 12 airline guys moved to their airline domicile...the rest stayed local. The 2 who moved only did so to work in the training dept or become an ACP. They are only able to drill for one week each month (and have to take MIL leave at the airline to do it = less pay) and are constantly going out of currency with the unit. Guys who live local can can come in with just 24 hours notice to pick up a quick 200+ bucks when it suits them. My point is archie's blanket statement that it is better to move away from your reserve gig to live in domicile does not apply to all...in fact, what I have seen is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Otto,

I guess you're going to have to decide which gig is more important to you....reserve military, or Delta Air Lines. Are you really going to be consistently drilling more than a week out of a month? This will probably get the attention of your Chief Pilot. While the ability to pick up an extra $200 on short notice sounds great now, I believe that it is incredibly short sighted thinking. Soon enough, you'll be making enough at Delta so that you'll be losing money by dropping trips, to fly with the reserves.

Go ahead and take this guy's advise, and commute to reserve....see how you and your family like it. My guess is that you won't.

TBoneF15 12-28-2007 01:33 PM

It's not that easy with some of the fighter units. I need 6 sorties a month plus a sim plus ground training...that generally works out to 8 days (sometimes you can do multiple events per day, not always). I'm attached to a normal active duty unit that doesn't do drill weekends, so my reserve time is mostly Mon-Fri.

Yes, I know I'll be crushed for a while so I don't need any lectures on that, but at least I know I'll go home a minimum 8 nights a month...at the end of each AF Reserve day. If I live in domicile, I would be gone a good chunk of the time I pull Delta reserve, then be definitely gone the entire time I'm at my AF Reserve job...that could leave a lot less than 8 nights at home every month.

No perfect choices here. I made the call to commute to Delta.

Buzz 12-28-2007 01:42 PM

Agreed
 

Originally Posted by ITSALLGOOD (Post 288131)
Otto, Just to confuse you even more, I will respectfully disagree with Archie. In my reserve unit, only 2 of the 12 airline guys moved to their airline domicile...the rest stayed local. The 2 who moved only did so to work in the training dept or become an ACP. They are only able to drill for one week each month (and have to take MIL leave at the airline to do it = less pay) and are constantly going out of currency with the unit. Guys who live local can can come in with just 24 hours notice to pick up a quick 200+ bucks when it suits them. My point is archie's blanket statement that it is better to move away from your reserve gig to live in domicile does not apply to all...in fact, what I have seen is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Spot on.... Remember, at Delta you may be on reserve for a year, maybe more, maybe less. On reserve it is great to live in domicile. Once you are a line holder you will go and fly your 3 or 4 or 5 day trip and be away from home. Flying those trips, you will be gone from home for 13 to 15 days, maybe more. You will THEN commute to your reserve job a minimum of 6 days a month and be gone from home. You will be home in your bed 6 to 9 nights a month if you commute to your reserve job. Sure, you can mil leave out of some of your Delta trips but you still aren't home much. Most airline guys I know live at their mil reserve location and then commute to FedEx, Delta, SWA, etc.

Albief15 12-28-2007 05:33 PM

Also--at LFI you can do some contracting or work in job # 3 (yeah--I know--NOT NOW!) but down the road. Your wife likes it there. You like it there. Another point--important to some--is the built in social network at your military town. Bottom line--ask the wife--if she's happy then you'll be happy. If she's not--well--you know how that goes...

OttoA10 12-30-2007 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by Buzz (Post 288189)
Spot on.... Remember, at Delta you may be on reserve for a year, maybe more, maybe less. On reserve it is great to live in domicile. Once you are a line holder you will go and fly your 3 or 4 or 5 day trip and be away from home. Flying those trips, you will be gone from home for 13 to 15 days, maybe more. You will THEN commute to your reserve job a minimum of 6 days a month and be gone from home. You will be home in your bed 6 to 9 nights a month if you commute to your reserve job. Sure, you can mil leave out of some of your Delta trips but you still aren't home much. Most airline guys I know live at their mil reserve location and then commute to FedEx, Delta, SWA, etc.

Thanks for the information and viewpoints. My reserve unit also requires at least 6 days per month, and doesn't drill many weekends. I am trying to think longer-term, including which situation will be best once I can hold a line. I think in the beginning I'll try the commute to Delta and see how it works out. The wife's happy with that arrangement, so we'll see...

dtfl 12-30-2007 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by TBoneF15 (Post 288184)
It's not that easy with some of the fighter units. I need 6 sorties a month plus a sim plus ground training...that generally works out to 8 days (sometimes you can do multiple events per day, not always). I'm attached to a normal active duty unit that doesn't do drill weekends, so my reserve time is mostly Mon-Fri.

Yes, I know I'll be crushed for a while so I don't need any lectures on that, but at least I know I'll go home a minimum 8 nights a month...at the end of each AF Reserve day. If I live in domicile, I would be gone a good chunk of the time I pull Delta reserve, then be definitely gone the entire time I'm at my AF Reserve job...that could leave a lot less than 8 nights at home every month.

No perfect choices here. I made the call to commute to Delta.

Otto/Tbone - something else to think about. WHERE do you live. IE where is your res unit and your home? Take a look at the DAL service out of that city. If it is all RJs..might be difficult to commute. If its mainline..might be easier. See where I am going? I live on the FL Gulf Coast and it wasn't too hard in 01 to commute as I lived where my res unit was/is. Now...it's going to be more difficult..so I am considering a move to be near my reserve unit...4-5 hours from ATL but with an easier commute as there is more mainline service.

As far as reserve commitment - it's getting tough everywhere...I was in the res in AFSOC. Our requirements were unbelievable due to our many diverse missions. I moved to slicks and it's not MUCH better. Still have to fly a few days a month to knock out everything..then there is the UTA...and target UTAs 2-3 times a year.

Scoop 12-30-2007 01:38 PM

From a previous post:

obviously the 88JFK reserve lifespan is short.

Also, it's been said that with 600+ newhires expected in 08, most 07 newhires won't have to worry about reserve that much. fact or crap?[/quote]


It’s pretty much up to you - if your goal is not to sit reserve you could easily minimize reserve by bidding and staying on the M88 NYC. If on the other hand you bid 767ER NYC plan on reserve for years to come.

Back to T-bones original question. Reserve on the 88 vs. the ER. The differences are huge: For starters on the ER, like I said plan on being on reserve for years - remember a lot of guys will be bidding in above you when they hit their desired seniority keeping you on reserve. Also, if the music stops and you are on reserve with no hiring or worse, furloughs good luck - best case you stay on reserve, next would be a displacement, lastly ,you would be furloughed which would happen at a seniority number not a seat position so this is not a factor. Next think about reserve on Christmas, news year’s day, 4th of July, your family reunion etc. On the ER you will have little or no control over your schedule even on reserve - during certain months (December) senior guys bid reserve to ensure getting certain days off. On the 88 meanwhile - guys will be coming in behind you in almost every new hire class - and guys generally will not bid in above you. With luck after a few months you can get your requested days off and with some more luck you can hold a line within a year. Not to mention vacation bidding - if you want a summer vacation or a holiday vacation, you might luck out on the 88. On the ER plan on getting what ever is left over. Also PCS runs - enabling you to switch your reserve days off, are run three times a day and are seniority based. Also if you actually want to fly and land a plane the 88 would be better - as an IRO on the ER you might land 1 or 2 times a month - not an easy way to adjust to a new aircraft. On the other hand the ER flying is much more low stress - flying the tracks for hours vice doing LGA - DCA etc. I am out of time but this is only the tip of the iceberg. Lastly remember - movement is pretty good right now - that can change overnight.

Good Luck - Scoop


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