Well you are talking about sacrificing your integrity to get ahead. That is YOUR choice, not the choice of the management. You handle your career the way you want, but don't throw the rational out there that everyone has to compromise safety to move up and make more money?

You have to remove the human condition from the equation to see the merits of the system. I speak only of flying upgrades, not promotion. I would much rather see someone get an upgrade that deserves it rather than watch some guy who happens to have a lower number than I do get a seat that they may not be ready for.

Let the discussion continue.....:cool:

That is why they came up with a testing method. If someone isn't qualified, they fail.

The last thing we need is to invent a method of showing different skill levels. I could see something happening in the future and the media all over how this pilot wasn't THE most skilled pilot in the company and wondering why everyone doesn't deserve THE most skilled pilot... Everyone needs to be on the same level. Pass or fail. Testing standards make sure everyone has the best pilot.

You can't honestly tell me that "testing standards" are any different than a method of skill level? They are one in the same. If you fail a test, you don't move on. If your skill level is ready to move you along the progression chain, then you can. I can cheat on a test just the same as someone can study their ass off and pass. College taught me that!

The senority system does NOTHING to prove that you are more qualified than anyone else.

If you don't like the system, stay in the military.

The seniority system allows the pilots to advance in a somewhat fair and non- political manner. Then they are given the training and a checkride (tested) to see if they are capable of upgrade. I'm prior military and I don't see any other method than the one that is currently in place.

By the time guys get to the airlines, and especially after a couple years on the line, the differences between the "average" pilots and the "best" and "worst" pilots are minimal. The vast majority of pilots are more or less interchangeable, IMO. This isn't like pilot training or our first AF assignment, when there may have been significant differences in skills.

In other words, there is no need to prove "you are more qualified than anyone else." You learn the ropes, pay your dues, and wait your turn. No shortcuts.

Anyway, you may want to fly as a civilian for a while before you try to turn the system upside-down. ;)

No one "gets" to be a Capt. Everyone goes through an FAA approved upgrade program and everyone passes the oral and the practical or they don't "get" the upgrade.

longevity (seniority) is as big a factor in determining who gets to upgrade in a mil environment as well. time on station was the deciding factor amongst a relative skill/experience set.

Seniority doesn't mean that you have to upgrade, merely gives you the opportunity to do so w/out any of the politics hassles inherent in the mil system. You have to admit, being a crappy snacko or CFC dude doesn't mean you can't fly the airplane.

And, no matter the background, by the time you are in the jet---pretty much everybody can fly the plane.

Never said that I don't like the system, I just believe that the military way of doing it happens to be better. Just a difference in opinions. :o

Truth be told, I don't want to stay in the military, because I am tired of my "office" job being the reason why people get promoted. I am tired of working my a** off doing my actual job (flying) and being told that what I do with my office job is not good enough and that is what "really matters."

I envy all you commercial guys! I really do. I just don't think that the way that the senority system is based serves as the best way to identify who gets the opportunity to upgrade.

Maybe one day, when I get out of the military and fly commercial, I will "see the light." But, as for today, I don't.

You can't cheat flying a sim and handling all of the emergency situations. You can't cheat the profiles or memory items.

Testing standards set the bar. You either pass or you fail. I am no more qualified than any other FO at my airline because we all passed the same test. That is all that needs to be known. We all perform the same maneuvers and do them within certain test standards. We are all qualified to do the job. To actually state one pilot is better than the other could have serious problems. Like I said what if that SWA that skid off the end of the runway at ORD happened and the media found out there were different levels of qualifications and the guy landing was of the lowest qualification? Can you imagine how much they could blow things out of proportion?

I can see it now, "Ladies and gentlemen I'm standing here tonight in front of a SWA 737 that slid off the end of a runway causing a fatality. We just learned that the pilot landing the aircraft was not of the highest skill level. The question now is why are airlines letting pilots who aren't of the highest skill level land aircraft let alone in stormy conditions? Why are the airlines willingly risking the lives of all those on board, and lastly, what legal actions do the families of those injured plan on taking to ensure the airlines take the safety of those on board seriously?"

Or we could just leave the current system in place where any and all that prove worthy are in face worthy to fly the aircraft to it's fullest extent.

That's because you aren't more qualified than anyone else. It's simple.