Could VA be next?
04-17-2008 | 05:57 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
"Their fares are great" We are Airline Pilots....NOT MANAGERS. we have a duty to uphold ( what is left ) of this profession. NO ONE should be working for any statups that pay crap wages. I know ya do what ya gotta do, but the more people take lesser paying jobs for the "Hope" of upgrading/expansion/pretty F/S'a, the harder it is for "The Profession" to negotiate wages even close to years gone by.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
04-17-2008 | 08:24 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Its a fantastic idea to promote big picture thinking for the profession and to promote solidarity. But to really back that chatter up you have to identify the priorities required to achieve your goal and then get busy. You CANNOT expect ANY useful percentage of pilots to back you up the way you are spouting about above UNLESS and UNTIL you/us/we do something to dismantle the meatgrinder. "You" have negotiated and perpetuated the meatgrinder by crapping on the new hire with obscene pay in the first few years while the deregulated industry continues to churn and toss people back out into the hopper feeding that meatgrinder. Seniority rules and until "you" get after a national seniority plan of some sort to correct the deregulation meatgrinder the start-up will continue to have a strong pull.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
04-18-2008 | 09:13 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: 727 VIP Left
Its a fantastic idea to promote big picture thinking for the profession and to promote solidarity. But to really back that chatter up you have to identify the priorities required to achieve your goal and then get busy. You CANNOT expect ANY useful percentage of pilots to back you up the way you are spouting about above UNLESS and UNTIL you/us/we do something to dismantle the meatgrinder. "You" have negotiated and perpetuated the meatgrinder by crapping on the new hire with obscene pay in the first few years while the deregulated industry continues to churn and toss people back out into the hopper feeding that meatgrinder. Seniority rules and until "you" get after a national seniority plan of some sort to correct the deregulation meatgrinder the start-up will continue to have a strong pull.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
Great point. The current system leaves a lot to be desired (as does much with this profession) when your talent and experience is worth $153 + hr and the next month your making $43 hr. Tell a Doctor or Lawyer to take that kind of hit when they make a new start. I don't have the answer, but with all the sacrifices Pilots make there has got to be a better way. That said, anyone who has ever been furloughed is usually just happy to get a job with a good company, I know I was.
04-18-2008 | 01:04 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Haha. This is ridiculous. I have friends at VA who would disagree with you.
Ha. You have quite a self-rightous attitude, assuming you deserve praise for your efforts. That's something you will have to earn from the american public. Good luck, I for one will be amazed if you're in business in 2010.
Ha. You have quite a self-rightous attitude, assuming you deserve praise for your efforts. That's something you will have to earn from the american public. Good luck, I for one will be amazed if you're in business in 2010.
04-18-2008 | 01:10 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Haha. This is ridiculous. I have friends at VA who would disagree with you.
Ha. You have quite a self-rightous attitude, assuming you deserve praise for your efforts. That's something you will have to earn from the american public. Good luck, I for one will be amazed if you're in business in 2010.
Ha. You have quite a self-rightous attitude, assuming you deserve praise for your efforts. That's something you will have to earn from the american public. Good luck, I for one will be amazed if you're in business in 2010.
virgin blue is owned by Toll holdings, wich is a huge tranportation componay in Australia, the virgin group owns a minority stake of the airline and it is not involved on V-Blue, wich is the 777 operation. it has 55 airplanes, and their only real competition is quantas, hardly the same market as US and Europe.
Virgin Nigeria has 7 planes, and they came to replace the bankrrupted goverment owned nigerian airlines, so they have the same small goverment market monopoly, plus the cash came from nigerian investors ( oil I assume?)
Virgin Atlantic is 49% owned by singapore aielines, has 19 planes.when it started it was competing agains BA .
point is , the only time they had real comoetition (europe "domestic") they failed (virgin express). the US domestic has real competition too. I would not get too cocky.
Virgin Nigeria has 7 planes, and they came to replace the bankrrupted goverment owned nigerian airlines, so they have the same small goverment market monopoly, plus the cash came from nigerian investors ( oil I assume?)
Virgin Atlantic is 49% owned by singapore aielines, has 19 planes.when it started it was competing agains BA .
point is , the only time they had real comoetition (europe "domestic") they failed (virgin express). the US domestic has real competition too. I would not get too cocky.
Kindly face the facts that Virgin America faces no real competition at least from US carriers.
04-18-2008 | 01:44 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
From: 330 FO
I hope you are serious when you say that Virgin America has competition in U.S.Serving peanuts,water,no inflight entertainment,out of shape digruntled grannies shouting orders at passengers must be your idea of competitionKindly face the facts that Virgin America faces no real competition at least from US carriers.
Kindly face the facts that Virgin America faces no real competition at least from US carriers.
04-18-2008 | 01:45 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
From: 330 FO
04-18-2008 | 04:06 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
Dude, how many planes does VA have on property right now? To make a statement like that is pretty naive I think. I fly for a carrier that has been around 75 years and I would not make that comment. But, if it helps you sleep better at night keep repeating it to yourself. Maybe you will believe it one day.
04-18-2008 | 04:56 PM
#39
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
From: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
....
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
Do you really have any doubt that each guy out there is doing his best to make the best choices he can from the options available? Do you really expect anybody to substantially "sell himself short" to uphold your ideals for the profession? Jam the gears of that meatgrinder first, THEN try to talk solidarity to the "applying for a job" crowd that includes 20+ year veterans looking at a $2000/mo "fresh starts" in this furlough and fold industry.
Can I get a FREAKING Amen! Wow, someone gets it!
Truth be told, this going on and on about wages at VX misses the most important point.. the W2.
Year one at VX, my W2 is as good or better than most airlines
Year two, somewhere then I'm a CA, and my W2 is significantly better than most.
In the end, CA or FO, I'm a high time, multi-type rated pilot having flown 16,000lb to 633,000lb airplanes all over the world... I'm not worried so much about what seat I'm in, as what the net on my W2 is.
I think given time, VX will pay what any other narrow body A320 pays.. but to be worried about a 10 airplane airline undercutting the wages that were set forth by the concessions of 2001-2002 is a red herring at best.
04-19-2008 | 12:34 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
I have never heard of Virgin express but if you guys want to talk about the performance of virgin brand than why not talk about the excellent service and the performance of Virgin Atlantic.
and Virgin America is also following their foot steps.And who is this character Bob from Mesa anyways,how does he and Mesa come in the pic.
Virgin America is here to stay so get used to it and instead of predicting doom for them praise them for providing a better service which unfortunately is not offered by any other US carrier.
and Virgin America is also following their foot steps.And who is this character Bob from Mesa anyways,how does he and Mesa come in the pic.Virgin America is here to stay so get used to it and instead of predicting doom for them praise them for providing a better service which unfortunately is not offered by any other US carrier.
