Airline Pilot Central Forums - Getting bumped back from Captain

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyHigh (Post 377183)

I can see your friends position. As an FO you are invisible. No one cares about your opinions. Maintenance control or dispatch does not care what you think. Management does not want your input. The chief pilot does not know your name. You have no real responsibilities. The company has to dream up busy work to keep The FO awake and interested. You are merely a redundant system that is there to gain experience through observation. Even FA's and baggage handlers have more input and control over their environment.

As an FO passengers will stare at you in full uniform and three bars and ask "are you the pilot"? Meaning that the FO is not the pilot. And in reality the FO isn't. Most of the time the FO gets the same information about the flight as the passengers. The FO is one pilot to many in a job that requires a half alert person to begin with. They have superfluous and respect less job that really is "invisible". There isn't much satisfaction in the right seat.

SkyHigh

One of the most worthless posts I've ever read!

Skyhigh has been on my "ignore" list for a long, long time. I recommend it. His posts are all worthless, so why waste the time reading them?

IMHO... there is no such thing as a first officer... he/she is a future captain! They are an integral part of the team along with the F/As that make an operation a success!

Its unfortunate that when an airline cuts back its work force, the low numbered captain will be displaced to the right seat. That's the nature of the industry.

The choices are very limited... go back to the right seat... and collect a paycheck, even though its reduced, or quit.

"Either you are trying to get everyone lit up or you really just don't get it."

It's both.

I try to keep the mindset, "this is my job, not who I AM."

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeNtheFstLne (Post 377162)

I wondered if that 'up or out' policy still existed at AA. Perhaps my opinion is not popular, but I think it's pathetic how many career right seaters we have at CAL (many of them scabs). It shows a lack of ambition and poor leadership skills. (Disclaimer for CAL - our junior CA work rules are so horrible I suppose it's a viable excuse). Why does your union want the policy changed? I think it's a great way to have rather predictable movement on the seniority list and hold people to a higher standard. Like Human Resources always says: 'they're hiring Captains.'

Oh, and I'm definitely not good - just lucky. :p

In my opinion, to say that it shows lack of ambition and poor leadership skills is very wrong of you sir. I know of several "Career FO's" who bid it becasue of seniority and QOL. They choose to be senior FO's and live in base than be Junior Captains, having to commute and sit reserve. Money means ALOT but so does QOL.

Sky is correct about a few things; for example maint., they only listen to the Captain--which they should. However, the Captain should listen to all the information (much of it coming from the F/O usually) before communicating with the maint. guy/girl. Also, passengers will usually think that someone standing off to the side looking at the floor doesn't have ultimate responsibility for their life for the next few hours and will inherently ask if "they are the pilot" just to reassure themselves.

I am certainly not in Sky's corner here but merely pointing out the fact that if someone acts like a secondhand person/crew member then people will treat them like one. If an F/O is assertive, professional, respectful, helpful, curteous and knowledgeable then they will get all that in return. I have flown with very few captains who treated me like the invisible person. When I do encounter that I just do my job as best as I can but I still never back down on being an integral part of the CREW. I haven't had a problem with a captain about that yet. We aren't always friends but we both know where we stand. I hope that when I upgrade I treat all my F/Os and FAs with the respect they deserve and if I don't that they call me on it.

My Fo's can handle MX and any MX problems. Many of the Fo's I've flown with have also been A&P's and were very helpful.

I remember a time long ago at a regional; I was the FO and the ground crew wanted to take the ground power. CA said for me to give them the disconnect signal, so I did. They ignored me and looked at the CA. He said for me to give them the signal again, because he will not. We sat there for awhile until they finally disconnected the ground power. He was mad that they ignored me as the FO.

who cares...enjoy your time in the easier role and play the part....most of all just be cool......how knows, getting lost in the system is easier as a copilot and you may grow to like some of its virtues