CAL Reduction Bid
 

Spoke to Gary W. from manpower planning today. This month's reduction bid, posted 28 APR '08, has been cancelled. No reductions planned as of now, though possible on the AUG '08 bid. Think this is good news to most.

Sweet. That is good news. Did he say anything about the VRF or COLA offerings, or are they going to be postponed for now too?

What was true 5 days ago may not be true today given the status quo.
At least its a shred of good news for "now".

A little bird in the Training Department says it's unlikely we will furlough, but if we do MIL leaves and COLAs will negate the need to furlough. Take it for what it's worth.

COLA's will probably be offerred in the fall, due to PBS. The company is negotiating with Boeing to procure 4 757-300 that were previously ATA's. They are trying to get Boeing to pay to reconfigure the cabins/galleys to CAL spec's. ATA was a great airline with great peop's. Their aircraft are actually configured better than CAL's; all Etops. The cost of galley reconfiguration is expensive and they only put the etops 300's in direct competition with Jetblue in our hubs, which CAL has covered right now. Even with the accelerated parking of the "classic" 737's, we still have net aircraft growth. The surplus of pilots that management has is mainly due to PBS and that group of pilots that routinely flies in excess of 90 hour/month; the selfish group that were hired during the strike. Based on Gary's statements, there shouldn't be furloughs anytime soon, unless there is a merger. He said that the merger contingency plans called for approximently 700 furloughs.

Exactly. That's what we need to change. Those greedy pilots can ruin it for the junior guys. They just don't get it.

320...

Help me a little becuase I am confused and new to this stuff. I heard that we cannot merge if we have furloughs and I have also hears that we "junior" guys were furlough protected for at least 2 years after a merger. I was under the impression that United would have been cut and not us.

Can't help out much in that regard. But having been thrown to the wolves by ALPA several times, I don't think they'd side with us vs. United on any deal like that. United pays significantly more dues than we, ALPA's main concern, and would certainly take litigation that the aforementioned would violate ALPA merger policy. And United is very "united", whereas most of our senior guys, pre-Bethune, have historically thrown each other under the bus for some time now. They wouldn't hesitate for a moment to sacrifice their young, you and I. In short, don't look for any new-hire consideration, protection or representation from our pilot group. If a merger occurs @ CAL, the bottom 1,500 guys are going to have to get some representation. We have the numbers. Just IMHO.

There is no protection unless it's part of an agreement. We have no agreement with anyone, but we are not merging with anyone at this time. For example: I think there is a two-year no furlough agreement between DAL/NWA. Who cares? It takes that long to start integrating the companies, then the furloughs will really kick in. How about a 10 year no-furlough. Two years is a joke, but it will give us time to get our resumes up to date. :D

Cal Guys,

I am one of you...been with the company nearly 1.5 years. I never fly less than 90 hrs/month (exception: Vacation or calling in sick)...I try every month to bid low with PBS....it never gives me it. If you are on reserve (especially A) this summer 90 hrs will be a low number. Just my 2 cents!

Agreed. I was aluding to an different agreement between CAL and UAL pilot groups. On a side note, friend of mine, semi-high in UAL management, said that the true reason Larry walked away was that financing was not available. I think Air France floated Delta over $600 million to get the DAL/NWA thing financed. Sounds more believable than Larry looking out for employees.

I can see that but I also heard that it was our desire to have the West Coast and we can do it cheaper than merging "at this time." As you can see for me, ignorance is bliss.

I am usually scheduled about 80 to 85 hours of flying per month bidding wide with PBS but end up flying much more due to delays and etc. I guess I'm one of those greedy guys.

I've never gone over 90 on PBS or reserve- any time of year.

That's a normal line. The greedy guys pick up time on their days off and fly through vacation to get near 100 every month.

I can only speak for the guys and gals at Houston...but 90+ hrs while on A reserve last summer was the norm...good job we are over manned this summer :-)
Remember Larry like all CEO's does not work for us! He would throw his G Ma out on the street if the stockholders demanded it.

Rumor is that we are 200 pilots over this fall which means that we are probably right where we should be.

Just a quick informal survey shows IAH 737 FO's on reserve flying 65-75 hrs per month. Seems like alot for a reserve at most other companies but 20 hrs low when compared with normal reserve utilization at CAL.

It doesn't matter if the reserves are busy flying 90 hours per month, there are plenty of pilots who will volunteer for junior manning (VJM) this summer for the extra pay. ;)

When will CAL realize that reserves are for people who call in sick, time out, etc. and not for flying 90 hours to save the company money. Line flying belongs to line holders; reserve flying belongs to reserves covering line flying that cannot be done by the line holder due to sickness, MX, weather, time out, etc. Am I wrong?

Ottopilot,

You are spot on...I agree. We have somehow let the company establish this system without a fight.

Unfortunately, with the cost of living going higher every day, you're going to see more of this type of activity....:(

I have 6 or 7 CAL F/O's here in my crashpad. They all average more then guarantee. Also, when they pick something up, 90% of the time it is taken by a lineholder.

:eek:We have a furlough protection clause with mergers for one year. Of course it's amendable after 60 days. And you thought two years was short.:eek:

From where? I don't doubt you, but had some of that "no furlough" protection @ USAir. With no-furlough protection and a dollar, you can get a bottle of water. I hope you're right.

Geez, where are you shopping? I can't get a bottle of water for less than a buck fifty!

Costco?:eek:

I heard today the company will be looking for approx. 200 pilot reduction. Hopefully there will be enough guys ready to retire early.

I heard the same thing, however, I don't think retirements will cover the 200 surplus that PBS says that we will have in the Fall. COLAs should help but if oil doesn't drop by the summer's end, there will be more than 200 pilot spots needing to be cut.

For someone in the bottom 200 would it be better to take a COLA, still keep longevity going and find another $30,000/yr job or wait for a maybe furlough? Out on a COLA longevity continues to accrue and on a furlough it doesn't, is that correct?

[QUOTE=beeker;387532]For someone in the bottom 200 would it be better to take a COLA, still keep longevity going and find another $30,000/yr job or wait for a maybe furlough? Out on a COLA longevity continues to accrue and on a furlough it doesn't, is that correct?[/QUOT

COLAs go out by a bid, and unfortunately, if you're in the furlough window, you can't bid for it. i.e., if they need to reduce by 200 pilots, they'll offer 200 COLAs, but the bottom 200 pilots won't be eligible to bid for the COLA.

Yes, longevity continues to accrue on a COLA.

FYI, I'm about 15 people from the bottom of the senority list. See you in the unemployment line.

Riddler

I recently had an IAH 737 captain on my jumpseat to LAX. He said he's turning 60 in AUG and bailing in NOV, as are approximately 200 other CA's at CAL. Said the way they are going to figure retirement money based on the new system Bush signed in to law would cost them approximately $50,000 a year in "free" work to the company. He said he'd rather retire than work for free, as would the other pilots planning to retire. This would certainly be good news for those on the bottom of the list. Just hope it's true. :o

I'm junior - about 90%. Before age 65 passed I was moving up about 15 to 20 seniority numbers per month. After it passed I was moving up 5 to 7 numbers a month (Jan - May).

This month (June) I moved up 28 numbers, including a 2% move up in BES. Maybe it's starting already.

I'm "hoping" this age 65 thing was just a novelty and the "fun-ness" has worn off. Why anyone would want to continue to deal with TSA, delays, commuting, and generally and industry that is down the toilet, etc., is anyones guess, but when 60 comes my way, I'll go enjoy a nice retirement. :)

Interestingly I have had two weather room conversations in the past month with captains who have used almost those exact words "...the novelty of working past age 60 has worn off. I'm putting in my papers." or "...I'm putting in my papers at the end of the summer." I had a captain on the jumpseat several pairings ago who indicated the first time this summer he misses a commute home that'll be it for him (he's a west coast commuter based in IAH). We'll see if they all follow through with it or if it's just grumbling.

The two main guys that got me hired are both going to retire this year, one in july and one in september. Paperwork is in and retirement party is being planned.

Honestly I don't know why they are staying. At the end of the year when the lump sum becomes tied to the corporate bond rate more and more each year it just devalues the amount you are going to get.

It's good to see some folks have their priorities in order.

Please ask these sane, responsible, and well-grounded gentlemen to urge their peers at other airlines to do the same!! :)

You only have to look around and see how many idiots there are at CAL with their 3rd wife and miscellaneous boats and planes laying around to see that they don't exactly demonstrate any sort of financial responsibility in their day to day routines. It amazes me how little propaganda is floating about to spell it out for these guys about how foolish it is to stick around. Many of them have had 30+ years to plan for this. They're running out of excuses and I'm running out of sympathy.

I don't think that wholesale irresponsibility is exclusive to CAL...

I've seen three retirement notices up in the past week. Good news for a change (although their could be a LOT more). The way things are going, if I had a lump sum of $750,000+ I'd be gone yesterday. Some of these guys are gambling a lot on what might just be a losing horse.......:confused: