What has to happen to lower OIL...
06-06-2008 | 08:31 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Sabre 60
A simple analysis goes a long way...
www.phoenixmotorcars.com
100mph
150 mile range
10 minute recharge
Extremely long battery life (the batteries will still be alive when the car becomes junk)
$44,000 for an all electric SUV
Lets say a typical SUV costs $30,000
=$14,000 extra to own an all electric vehicle.
The average American drives 12,000 miles per year.
Say you own the car for 8 years.
Say the average gas SUV gets 20mpg.
You will burn 4800 gallons of gas over 8 years.
At $4/gallon, that is = $19,200 in gas.
YOU ARE CRAZY if you think gas will be $4/gallon over the next 8 years.
More realistic numbers are $5 (low) - $7 per gallon.
At $5/gallon, you will spend $24,000 on gas.
At $7/gallon, you will spend $33,600 on gas.
How about the all electric car?
National average for electricity is 9 cents per KWH. If you plug in at night, the rates are usually much cheaper (5 cents per KWH). Some cities even have special rates for electric cars (2.5 cents per KWH). But lets use the 9 cent average.
This car has a 35KWH battery. That means it costs $3.15 to charge the battery for a 150 mile trip. 96000 miles / 150 miles per charge = 640 charges * $3.15 per charge = $2,016 worth of electricity.
Cost of ownership of gas powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$30,000 purchase + ($24,000 to $33,600 on gas) = $54,000 to $66,600
Cost of ownership of electric powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$44,000 purchase +$2,016 on electricity - $46,016
And of course, the price of oil is only going to go up and up and up long term. So the price of electric cars will continue to come down, while the price of owning a gas powered car will continue to go up. So these numbers will only get more favorable as time goes on.
Of course you should adjust the numbers for your driving habits, but unless you drive some small amount (like less than 5,000 miles per year), you will save a lot of money owning an all electric car.
The two largest developers of hybrid cars have been Toyota and Honda. The two most successful car companies over recent years have been Toyota and Honda. There is obviously a correlation here. The big three have done little to nothing towards the development of plug in hybrids/all electric cars. I really hope the Volt is successful. Now lets see Ford and Chrysler step up to the plate. People wonder why they are losing billions of dollars and laying off tens of thousands of employees. Design a successful plug in hybrid or all electric car, and you will see these automakers doing better.
www.phoenixmotorcars.com
100mph
150 mile range
10 minute recharge
Extremely long battery life (the batteries will still be alive when the car becomes junk)
$44,000 for an all electric SUV
Lets say a typical SUV costs $30,000
=$14,000 extra to own an all electric vehicle.
The average American drives 12,000 miles per year.
Say you own the car for 8 years.
Say the average gas SUV gets 20mpg.
You will burn 4800 gallons of gas over 8 years.
At $4/gallon, that is = $19,200 in gas.
YOU ARE CRAZY if you think gas will be $4/gallon over the next 8 years.
More realistic numbers are $5 (low) - $7 per gallon.
At $5/gallon, you will spend $24,000 on gas.
At $7/gallon, you will spend $33,600 on gas.
How about the all electric car?
National average for electricity is 9 cents per KWH. If you plug in at night, the rates are usually much cheaper (5 cents per KWH). Some cities even have special rates for electric cars (2.5 cents per KWH). But lets use the 9 cent average.
This car has a 35KWH battery. That means it costs $3.15 to charge the battery for a 150 mile trip. 96000 miles / 150 miles per charge = 640 charges * $3.15 per charge = $2,016 worth of electricity.
Cost of ownership of gas powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$30,000 purchase + ($24,000 to $33,600 on gas) = $54,000 to $66,600
Cost of ownership of electric powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$44,000 purchase +$2,016 on electricity - $46,016
And of course, the price of oil is only going to go up and up and up long term. So the price of electric cars will continue to come down, while the price of owning a gas powered car will continue to go up. So these numbers will only get more favorable as time goes on.
Of course you should adjust the numbers for your driving habits, but unless you drive some small amount (like less than 5,000 miles per year), you will save a lot of money owning an all electric car.
The two largest developers of hybrid cars have been Toyota and Honda. The two most successful car companies over recent years have been Toyota and Honda. There is obviously a correlation here. The big three have done little to nothing towards the development of plug in hybrids/all electric cars. I really hope the Volt is successful. Now lets see Ford and Chrysler step up to the plate. People wonder why they are losing billions of dollars and laying off tens of thousands of employees. Design a successful plug in hybrid or all electric car, and you will see these automakers doing better.
06-06-2008 | 08:54 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: dogstyle
Ok I understand that most pilots are extreme financial experts and we sit in on strategic oil meetings with world leaders at least once a week. OR is it that we just let the media tell us what they heard and think and then tell us what WE should think. What ever it is I myself really haven't a clue what is going on and to be perfectly honest with you I highly doubt all of what I hear is what is ACTUALLY going on with fuel, reserves and the economy. Now this might sound stupid but I have a question about a barrel of fuel. It costs the US currently around 120-130 per barrel which results in around 4 bucks a gallon for us and I think it's a little cheaper per gallon for JP. So my point is that I have been to Europe and other parts of the world and for many many years they have been paying more than our current fuel prices for a gallon or equivalent of gasoline. And when you go to those countries they use those smart cars, everyone and their grandmother rides a scooter and many of their cars run on diesel. And when I'm there it seems that no one really complains all that much about "The Fuel Prices". And you never hear on the news about the dilemma in other parts of the world about rising gas prices. Now I could totally be way off but if they have been doing it for many years, why the heck can't we? And I was also wondering about aviation around the world. If they are paying and have been paying what we now pay for fuel for many years, what are they doing to keep the costs down so that we don't hear about all the turmoil in foreign airlines? Hopefully I did not offend anyone. Just a little something that I had bottling up.
06-07-2008 | 03:31 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 1
From: Retired 121 pilot
Toyota and Honda are successful because they make good quality cars, not because they make hybrid cars.
06-07-2008 | 05:13 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
Interestingly enough, the multi billion dollar bottled water industry is a complete waste of money, resources, and the environment. Most of the bottles can't be recycled. It also pushes up demand for oil contributing to the current oil crisis.
I just drank some filtered water from the my fridge. It's just as good and it didn't have to be trucked across the country to get here.
AL
Last edited by alvrb211; 06-07-2008 at 05:19 AM.
06-07-2008 | 05:24 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
A simple analysis goes a long way...
www.phoenixmotorcars.com
100mph
150 mile range
10 minute recharge
Extremely long battery life (the batteries will still be alive when the car becomes junk)
$44,000 for an all electric SUV
Lets say a typical SUV costs $30,000
=$14,000 extra to own an all electric vehicle.
The average American drives 12,000 miles per year.
Say you own the car for 8 years.
Say the average gas SUV gets 20mpg.
You will burn 4800 gallons of gas over 8 years.
At $4/gallon, that is = $19,200 in gas.
YOU ARE CRAZY if you think gas will be $4/gallon over the next 8 years.
More realistic numbers are $5 (low) - $7 per gallon.
At $5/gallon, you will spend $24,000 on gas.
At $7/gallon, you will spend $33,600 on gas.
How about the all electric car?
National average for electricity is 9 cents per KWH. If you plug in at night, the rates are usually much cheaper (5 cents per KWH). Some cities even have special rates for electric cars (2.5 cents per KWH). But lets use the 9 cent average.
This car has a 35KWH battery. That means it costs $3.15 to charge the battery for a 150 mile trip. 96000 miles / 150 miles per charge = 640 charges * $3.15 per charge = $2,016 worth of electricity.
Cost of ownership of gas powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$30,000 purchase + ($24,000 to $33,600 on gas) = $54,000 to $66,600
Cost of ownership of electric powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$44,000 purchase +$2,016 on electricity - $46,016
And of course, the price of oil is only going to go up and up and up long term. So the price of electric cars will continue to come down, while the price of owning a gas powered car will continue to go up. So these numbers will only get more favorable as time goes on.
Of course you should adjust the numbers for your driving habits, but unless you drive some small amount (like less than 5,000 miles per year), you will save a lot of money owning an all electric car.
The two largest developers of hybrid cars have been Toyota and Honda. The two most successful car companies over recent years have been Toyota and Honda. There is obviously a correlation here. The big three have done little to nothing towards the development of plug in hybrids/all electric cars. I really hope the Volt is successful. Now lets see Ford and Chrysler step up to the plate. People wonder why they are losing billions of dollars and laying off tens of thousands of employees. Design a successful plug in hybrid or all electric car, and you will see these automakers doing better.
www.phoenixmotorcars.com
100mph
150 mile range
10 minute recharge
Extremely long battery life (the batteries will still be alive when the car becomes junk)
$44,000 for an all electric SUV
Lets say a typical SUV costs $30,000
=$14,000 extra to own an all electric vehicle.
The average American drives 12,000 miles per year.
Say you own the car for 8 years.
Say the average gas SUV gets 20mpg.
You will burn 4800 gallons of gas over 8 years.
At $4/gallon, that is = $19,200 in gas.
YOU ARE CRAZY if you think gas will be $4/gallon over the next 8 years.
More realistic numbers are $5 (low) - $7 per gallon.
At $5/gallon, you will spend $24,000 on gas.
At $7/gallon, you will spend $33,600 on gas.
How about the all electric car?
National average for electricity is 9 cents per KWH. If you plug in at night, the rates are usually much cheaper (5 cents per KWH). Some cities even have special rates for electric cars (2.5 cents per KWH). But lets use the 9 cent average.
This car has a 35KWH battery. That means it costs $3.15 to charge the battery for a 150 mile trip. 96000 miles / 150 miles per charge = 640 charges * $3.15 per charge = $2,016 worth of electricity.
Cost of ownership of gas powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$30,000 purchase + ($24,000 to $33,600 on gas) = $54,000 to $66,600
Cost of ownership of electric powered SUV for 8 years (average 12k per year)
$44,000 purchase +$2,016 on electricity - $46,016
And of course, the price of oil is only going to go up and up and up long term. So the price of electric cars will continue to come down, while the price of owning a gas powered car will continue to go up. So these numbers will only get more favorable as time goes on.
Of course you should adjust the numbers for your driving habits, but unless you drive some small amount (like less than 5,000 miles per year), you will save a lot of money owning an all electric car.
The two largest developers of hybrid cars have been Toyota and Honda. The two most successful car companies over recent years have been Toyota and Honda. There is obviously a correlation here. The big three have done little to nothing towards the development of plug in hybrids/all electric cars. I really hope the Volt is successful. Now lets see Ford and Chrysler step up to the plate. People wonder why they are losing billions of dollars and laying off tens of thousands of employees. Design a successful plug in hybrid or all electric car, and you will see these automakers doing better.
The three most efficient automobile plants in the world are all in Japan and all owned by Toyota. Unfortunately, NO US manufacturers even come close.
AL
06-07-2008 | 05:26 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 5
From: Excessed WB Capt.
It costs the US currently around 120-130 per barrel which results in around 4 bucks a gallon for us and I think it's a little cheaper per gallon for JP. So my point is that I have been to Europe and other parts of the world and for many many years they have been paying more than our current fuel prices for a gallon or equivalent of gasoline. And when you go to those countries they use those smart cars, everyone and their grandmother rides a scooter and many of their cars run on diesel. And when I'm there it seems that no one really complains all that much about "The Fuel Prices". And you never hear on the news about the dilemma in other parts of the world about rising gas prices. Now I could totally be way off but if they have been doing it for many years, why the heck can't we? And I was also wondering about aviation around the world. If they are paying and have been paying what we now pay for fuel for many years, what are they doing to keep the costs down so that we don't hear about all the turmoil in foreign airlines? Hopefully I did not offend anyone. Just a little something that I had bottling up.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/.../sxsubsidy.php
Also our transportation systems in the US were designed around the automobile. Our neighborhoods are built around the automobile (suburbs). In most parts of the world you don't drive 40 mins to work each day in a car, by yourself. If you have that long of a commute you take a train or a bus. This crisis is uniquely american.
06-07-2008 | 09:00 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 949
Likes: 1
From: A320 CA
Oil is simply not worth 140/barrel! There has been demand destruction all over the market in this country, and it is visible everywhere. People are trading in their SUVīs for much more fuel efficient cars, we are driving now when we HAVE to, not when we WANT to. We had a decrease in demand over the Memorial Day holiday.....A DECREASE!!! Airlines are rapidly reducing routes, thereby using less oil! If it was worth 140, or 130, or even 120, we would not see all of these things.
Oil is where it is right now because of speculation. Two days ago oil was down over 10%, then some big mouth(who probably owns millions in oil futures) at Morgan Stanley gives his prediction that oil will hit 150 by July 4. Result....$11 gain in one day!!! This is the type of behavior that needs to be stopped. It is intentional and in my opinion criminal. If the government made it less attractive to buy oil futures as a safety net against everything you would see oil tumble and settle at around 80/barrel, which is where it belongs IMHO.
Oil is where it is right now because of speculation. Two days ago oil was down over 10%, then some big mouth(who probably owns millions in oil futures) at Morgan Stanley gives his prediction that oil will hit 150 by July 4. Result....$11 gain in one day!!! This is the type of behavior that needs to be stopped. It is intentional and in my opinion criminal. If the government made it less attractive to buy oil futures as a safety net against everything you would see oil tumble and settle at around 80/barrel, which is where it belongs IMHO.
06-07-2008 | 09:40 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,098
Likes: 86
And that water is arguably better for you and your family. There is no testing or quality control required for bottled water, yet your tap water has to meet fairly strict water quality guidelines.
In some cases, like where I live, the water has a slight tinge to it because of harmless iron content, and it is easily fixed by a 10 year old charcoal filter.
I live next to a dentist. He tells me there has been a HUGE spike in dental problems with kids...in quantities that haven't been seen since the 50's, which, co-incidently, is when they started adding flouride to muni water systems.
One day, I will learn to stop underestimating the power of stupidity in the masses, and learn to profit from it.
Nu
06-07-2008 | 01:28 PM
#29
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: 737
Oil is simply not worth 140/barrel! There has been demand destruction all over the market in this country, and it is visible everywhere. People are trading in their SUVīs for much more fuel efficient cars, we are driving now when we HAVE to, not when we WANT to. We had a decrease in demand over the Memorial Day holiday.....A DECREASE!!! Airlines are rapidly reducing routes, thereby using less oil! If it was worth 140, or 130, or even 120, we would not see all of these things.
Oil is where it is right now because of speculation. Two days ago oil was down over 10%, then some big mouth(who probably owns millions in oil futures) at Morgan Stanley gives his prediction that oil will hit 150 by July 4. Result....$11 gain in one day!!! This is the type of behavior that needs to be stopped. It is intentional and in my opinion criminal. If the government made it less attractive to buy oil futures as a safety net against everything you would see oil tumble and settle at around 80/barrel, which is where it belongs IMHO.
Oil is where it is right now because of speculation. Two days ago oil was down over 10%, then some big mouth(who probably owns millions in oil futures) at Morgan Stanley gives his prediction that oil will hit 150 by July 4. Result....$11 gain in one day!!! This is the type of behavior that needs to be stopped. It is intentional and in my opinion criminal. If the government made it less attractive to buy oil futures as a safety net against everything you would see oil tumble and settle at around 80/barrel, which is where it belongs IMHO.
Agreed!!!!
06-15-2008 | 06:55 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
From: retired
The Japanese goverment kicked in yens (over 18 billion $ US).
Saturn/GM had an electric car over ten years ago...
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