A wake up call.. oil and reality.
 

if you haven't already seen this movie, see it.. I can't think of a better documentary of how things are done in the world of big business, big oil and puppet governments


http://syrianamovie.warnerbros.com/

I have seen this film twice and a line from the godfather movie comes to mind.
"Nothing personal its just business."


Flying ,its not just a job its an adventure:cool:

I saw the movie. It was gripping. The movie did not get into it but did allude to the fact that first Gulf War and the second one in 2003 was all about oil. Russia and France had the advatangeous contract with Iraq and obviously oil corporations of Great Britain and the USA did like that one bit. There are other interest groups who were at play implied in the movie.

When I was in the military, I was disgusted to find out that retired Cols and Generals were working for defense contractors vying for defense contracts that could affect the military for the next 10 years or more.

Some of this movie is based on a book called "See No Evil" by an ex-CIA guy and I recall when I first saw this movie, I went with a friend who was former British SAS and he told me that it was frighteningly accurate in so many ways with regards to the way under cover agents are used in ways that benefit business as and have little to do with actual military defense...

Beirut was at time known as the Paris of the Middle East before it was demolished to hell by Israelis and the Hezbolahs infighting amongst themselves.

One element left out by the movies was the Israelis intelligence outfit. Their network is extensive and includes industrial espionage against the western nations especially the US.

Our national safety is second priority to the CIA, NSA and the likes. They seem to have separate agendas. You mentioned military defense, just look at the fact that Pentagon selected the European Airbus for the lucrative billion dollars tanker project when they could have selected a US Company. I read the Pentagon rationale and they make absolutely no sense. Many experts have stated that Boeing aircraft could have been retrofitted far cheaper than Airbus. The presidential helicopter contract was also given to the European Eurocopter, instead of giving it to a US Company like Sikorsky Corporation.

It reminds me of one of the best lines in the movie... when the guy who should inherit the rule of Syriana (the fictional oil country) looks at Matt Damon who plays the oil analyst and tells him... well, here just watch for yourself..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4IdWUzrcJM

Only thing is in reality, instead of the US president supporting the US Company manufacturers, he has given away lucrative defense contracts like the tanker project worth billions of dollars to the Europeans. Makes no sense, and as a veteran, it disgusts me. What's next, US soldiers taking orders from the United Nations European Commanders?

It is true Saudis and other middle Eastern princes and Shieks are spending money like water. When I toured Eurocopter plant in Marseilles, the company rep said they have seen orders for $30 million dollar helicopters equipped with gold plated handles and faucets for the lavs.

They also regularly fly to the US in their B747s and go on shopping sprees that makes the most ostentatious rich people of this country look like scrooge.

it's both... trust me, the Royal families in the ME are nothing but puppet governments put in place initially by that first oil superpower the UK, and now propped up by the US. Our support of those regimes, along with unilateral support of Israel as made us the bane of the man on the street in the Muslim world.. it's going to be our undoing. With 1.2 billion muslims scattered thru out 50+ countries, we can't even nukem into non-existence! We need a major shift in global geopolitical strategy and return to a more self sufficient and isolationist (there I said it!).. stance.

Funny you should bring this up. In the nineties, President Clinton attempted to do just that! Under Presidential Directive No. 25, he tried to place U.S. Troops directly under foreign field commanders at the direct wishes of the U.N. It was our command staff that informed him of the unconstitutionality of such a move. Just another attempt by this former president to subvert any accountability.

I couldn't agree with you more there. We are like walking targets thanks to our idiotic foreign policy in the middle east. Instead of being an impartial mediator, we have been identified as the "big brother" to Israel thanks to our, as you have stated, "unilateral support" of Israel. We do need a drastic shift in global geopolitical strategy, one that looks out for the interest of the US Citizens, for once.

If that's what he attempted to do just to appease those Europeans, shame on him. Especially in view of the fact that he was a draft evader, going to England. Commander in Chief should not be someone who has never served in the military. One who has served in the military and have seen actions are less likely to commit troops for pure political reasons.

I've read that Europeans wanted us to be involved in Kosovo and take the brunt of the action because we have the so called "experience." The fact is Europeans thinks we, as people are expendable and they do not want to spill their precious European blood in Kosovo even though it was a purely European problem.

Dubya "served" :rolleyes: and he committed troops to Iraq for purely political reasons..........and, at a deployment level that surpasses all deployments under Clinton, combined.

After reading this thread, does anyone see why we should be moving away from oil as our primary source of energy??

Everyday, the US consumes over 20 million barrels of oil. With only 5 million barrels produced domestically, 15 million barrels of oil comes from foreign countries. 15 million barrels a day * $133.3/barrel (make the math easy) adds up to 2 Billion US dollars that we send overseas EVERYDAY. Every single day. 365 days a year. Do that for years and years, and I think you begin to see the magnitude of this crisis. And people wonder why the value of our dollar is getting lower and lower. Furthermore, if you take a look at the countries with the top 10 oil reserves in the world, you will find just about every nation that we hate.

Saudi Arabia
Canada
Iran
Iraq
Kuwait
United Arab Emirates
Venezuela
Russia
Libya
Nigeria

Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Libya, Nigeria. We HATE these countries. So why are we sending them billions of dollars everyday. It is downright insane. We are funding both sides of the war on terrorism. Forgetting the massive economic and environment benefits of switching from oil, there is still a compelling national defense reason why we need to stop using oil.

I believe that both presidential candidates are serious about reducing our dependence on oil. That is good. What happens in the next few years is really going to determine whether we are able to ride out this recession and start on the path of economic prosperity, or whether we will go into a depression (as severe as anything since WW2, as predicted by Alan Greenspan). We need a 10 year Apollo like effort. Reduce government subsidies to oil companies, and increase government subsidies to alternative energy (NOT ETHANOL!). Make it economically favorable for everyone to own a hybrid/plug in hybrid/all electric car. Over 11 million barrels of oil per day goes to power cars, and yet we have reasonably priced technology to power cars using NO OIL! The technology is out there today to become completely independent of foreign oil, TODAY!

We need to do something about our use of oil, or we are going to have to accept the fact that soon we may no longer be the richest and most powerful nation in the country. And we are going to have to accept the fact that our economy may fall into a depression. The price of oil is only going to go up and up and up. Lets use the technology that has made our nation great for the past 100+ years and do something about oil. Lets cut our usage significantly so we can be completely independent of foreign oil.

I do not consider current President as "served" when he has spent time with the other millionaire boys in the air national guard squadron and even at that dropped out of flying. Your point is exactly my point. Dick Chenney has never served in the military. Rumsfeld served but as a junior officer and has not seen "action." Former Deputy Defense Secretary has not "served' either and yet these guys were more than willing to send us to die for political and corporate greed. Former Deputy Defense Secretary after he got out was awarded with a top job at the World Bank.

When Rumsfeld was asked point blank by a Marine Gunnery Sargeant why the Marines are not getting the armor plating for their vehicles, his cold and short reply was "you go to war with what you've got," I along with other veterans wanted to send him to the front line on a combat patrol with the clothes he's got on, since Rumsfeld insists we go to war with what we've got.

scientists and futurists have been begging us to for decades! We're can't rely on oil to power everything anymore? Jets, are one thing, but cars, electric power, rail, and other things CAN and should run on alternative fuels.. derived from renewable sources. We know it, the world knows it, but the POWERS that be, in Oil, Government entrenched politicians taking money from big business lobbies, and other players (read the puppeteers) will not change it as it benefits them not to.

This aviation forum is not the place to discuss politics. Everyone has an opinion and it's best to voice those in person and not on an anonymous public forum. Here's a review of the forum rules that everyone agreed to when they signed up...

"Topics Not for Discussion

There are currently NO forums that provide a venue for discussing politics or religion. While DreamLaunch Media Ltd. and Airline Pilot Central embrace the diversity the world has to offer, these subjects often are very emotional and there are many different views. In our experience the wide range of views and emotions rarely contribute to a harmonious online community or beneficial contributions to the piloting profession."

What you call the high "deployment level" occurred because Clinton drew down the military far beyond even your active imagination, and the full effects of that decision were not felt until W took office.

After Clinton farted around around and let Osama slip away, at least someone in the Oval Office has the stones to do something to keep us safe. I don't think Clinton's exploits with a fat intern and a cigar did much for us...do you?

Not political. Just factual.

FDXer, I agree... I hate brainless "republican vs democrat" debates that have no end, and discussions of social issues that have little or no bearing on our profession, but my view (which matters 0 as I'm neither the owner or moderator here) is that this subject is CENTRAL to our profession, our future and our need to be educated on it is critical.

In the end, for me at least, they're all "Republicrats".. Rats.. being the operative term!

I'll say no more on it. Sorry for my divergence.

The current war in Iraq is a resource war. At this point, you'd have to be mentally defective in some way to think that WMD was the reason for our invasion. WMD seemed to provide the most easily jusifiable excuse, particularly when it came time to justify our case to the UN, for going to war. The whole, "well, our intelligence just wasn't good" excuse is probably the laimest excuse I've ever heard.

I haven't seen the movie, but I have studied the resource war perspective on the current war, it seems to make sense to me. Heck, the first Gulf War was a resource war, Iraq took over an oil field called Kuwait. I figure most people felt there was a remote chance that Saddam would once again strike out at an oil-rich country other than his own and would cause a major disturbance in the region, which would cause oil prices to rise based on fears that the disturbance would interupt supply. The attack on Iraq was basically a pre-emptive attack to prevent this. No WMD were ever found and shortly after the war began our commander-in-chief declared victory on the deck of an aircraft carrier. We're still fighting today. Why? We're stuck. If we withdraw from Iraq, it's likely a regime far worse than Saddam will come to power and further destabilize the region. If you think $140/bbl of oil sucks, wait 'til this happens! So, as strange as it may seem, we are essentially a stabilizing force in Iraq right now, this keeps oil prices in check. It also provides a buffer separating the Shia muslims in the east from the Sunni Muslims of the west (think Saudia Arabia, lots of oil!) The fact of the matter is a lot of Muslims hate each other, we don't need Iran and Saudia Arabia sharing a border, especially right now w/ oil prices where they're at.

Many other nations have developed weapons of mass destruction over the last 7 years and they have not been subject to pre-emptive attacks by either us or the "coalition of the willing". This is the writing on the wall that the current war in Iraq did not center around WMD; rather, its primary focus is the resource that keeps us going: OIL.

If the money this nation has spent on the Iraq war was instead spent on bringing alternative energies to the marketplace, and subsidizing the American people's shift to new vehicles, we would be in a much better place right now. However, no one in the current regime...i mean administration... wanted to convey to the people or our elected representatives the true cost of the war to come. Such things were known ahead of time, and with a little honesty I think the majority of our nation would have supported staying out of war, and switching energy sources. Heck, we could have even paid the oil companies tens of billions of dollars to keep them happy and still run up a smaller tab.

Beyond the financial implications of the Iraq war, we have also commited ourselves to an energy resource war. And much like the cold war, the energy war will continue for decades and end only when one nation is left NOT bankrupt and depressed. We are already way behind the financial power curve to engage in this war, and we just may end up with an economy like democratic Russia.

and what is it exactly the GW has done to "keep us safe"? did it have something to do with all of those ghostly WMD's in Iraq? Or was it the Saddam Hussein/Sept 11 connection? :rolleyes:



just keep telling yourself that.

Good dialog and perspective here guys - oil production and distribution does affect our jobs but please self moderate the political commentary. Thanks!

"The movie?" You're kidding, right? :eek:

That's the problem. Too many Americans are relying on movies with leftist agendas as they decide what their opinions are. In case you're not aware, Michael Moore and Oliver Stone are not objective (or even rational) sources of information.

Bottom line: We have not had another terrorist attack in the US. If you think that happened by accident, or it would have been possible had we not expended massive resources, you are sadly, dangerously mistaken.

I don't think we need to make this into a dem/repub issue.. YES they differ but in the end .. "US Policy" tends to be the same at the executive level no matter who's in charge.. I agree with the owners of this site.. let's keep it on oil and not GW and Clinton (strong as my feelings are on this).

I thought the subject of the thread was the movie "Syriana" and war in the middle-east. I haven't seen the movie.

movie is based a lot on a real CIA operative's book.. my former SAS operative friend also confirms it's "Frightening accuracy". Agree 99% of what Hollywood makes is garbage with a leftists agenda (mostly socially leftist).. but this is NOT one of them. See it.

It's difficult to have a discussion on oil without discussing oil's geopolitical components. That said, I agree with the mods too so, I digress.

I'm not a leftist and I'm not an avid movie watcher. Just trying to stick to the facts. I haven't seen the movie Syriana. What I do know is that Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi. 17 out of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were, guess what, Saudi. None were Iraqi or had any ties to Iraq. So why didn't we attack Saudia Arabia? Because they're a major source of our imported oil. You can't attack the hand that feeds you, right? It's not a conspiracy, it's common sense.

The war in Iraq has nothing to do w/ terrorism: It's an obvious resource war. It's easy to keep the American public at bay by spinning the war and making it look like it has kept us safe from terrorism. Quite frankly, the only reason we haven't had another attack is because we have been lucky so far. I wouldn't attribute the lack of an attack to any politician, Democrat or Republican, that would be giving politicians too much credit. They're all equally worthless, they only care about getting re-elected!

Yeah this is a tough one as oil and politics go hand in hand. What I would ask is that we avoid partisan sniping which is really the intent of the forum terms of service.

Thanks!

I won't get into political sniping. At this stage of the game politics is really a non event.

If you think that Obama, McCain or even Ron Paul can change the future on this you are not aware of the scope of the problem.

All US administrations in recent memory worked for the benefit of large corporations. Large Corporations do not work for the benefit of the employees.

20 years ago I wrote a thesis on Globalization and free trade. My conclusion then, is the same now. If you do not make your living off the divedends of stocks of large multi national corporations, in the end you are screwed.

Open skies, fifth freedom, exporting of mx offshore, large corps leaving to go to cheaper shores is all the symptoms of the same problem. That problem is government has allowed business to have a free ride at the expense of the US taxpayer.

Now throw in oil, and the fact that oil is traded in USD. Every transaction that occurs hides monetary inflation in the usa. Realize that its a finite commodity, and the large corporations who control oil want the money now.

The end game, you will see the looting of America. From pension funds to social security to the price you pay for a loaf of bread. Corporate carpet baggers have stolen your future. The lies used are everything from Human Rights to Cheaper prices for the consumer to the War on terror. All of the above are the means to the end. The end is a form of indentured servitude.

Thousands of years of human rights from the magna carta on are about to be trampled not by despots, but by corporations with the blessings of politicians that are bought and paid for.

Sounds like a wild conspiracy I know. The only way to prove it is to ask you to look at what is happening all around us everyday. Do you really think that the world will be better off in 20 years than it is today? Or your kids will have a better lifestyle? Where will they work?

The two main candidates will not/ or cannot change this. RP says it, but his change will destroy us too. The only thing to do is to know its coming and protect yourseld and your family as much as possible.

The political popularity contest is no longer a factor. The sooner some of you realize that the better.

Rant off-- flame away guys

That's it. That's all.

oil for 85 dollars a barrel, sooner than you may think,i lived through the last apocalypse in the 70s,and the rhetoric was just as heated,but without the internet to fan the flames.

A really good point, Duke. I agree completely that the reason we have not been attacked again is not due any of this administrations shenanigans but because we have been purely lucky.

Educate yourself before making comments on a movie you know nothing about. Syriana was not made by either Moore or Oliver Stone. And it has no leftist tendencies. Don't make every movie criticizing this administration to be a leftist propaganda.

Execellent summary of the situation we are all in this country due to corporate greed. They have no conscience nor any hint of love for this country. Just look at the way Pentagon officials in charge of awarding the billion dollars tanker project gave it away to a European conglomerate with an absurd rationale that Boeing failed to meet the criteria. Every expert have stated that retrofitting existing Boeing aircraft would have saved US taxpayers millions of dollars and yet Pentagon officials went ahead and chose Airbus which will cost US taxpayers billions of dollars.

Syriana may have been pretty spot on but what I think stonerman spliff was trying to say (which I whole-heartedly agree with) is that 99% of the drivel that comes out of Commywood is hugely left-wing propaganda yet many Americans are too stupid to realize it and buy it hook, line and sinker. Thinking for yourself has become a lost art in this society.

it cuts both ways.. I used to be heavily into right wing talk radio and other such venues (Fox and your avitar are among them).. I then woke up one day and realized their the problem wasn't the democrats.. it was the system. Both parties. Republicrats.. they're 90% the same.. the rhetoric is different, but their actions are in the end the same.

But there will be another one. IMHO, "safe" is over-rated.

You know man I have to agree and those on the far right are just as "out there". I just like the fact that O'Reilly doesn't take S from anyone but I don't agree with everything he says. Its so true....Republicrats......same rhetoric in different clothes.

Educate yourself. Syriana was financed by Mark Cuban. While he has been a very good team owner for the Dallas Mavericks, the rest of his business dealings and money expenditures are easily documented and very left wing. Mark Cuban even put Dan Rather's career on life support on his cable network. The same Dan Rather that reported a story that everyone knew was fictitious in the 2004 election campaign. Mark Cuban also financed and exucutive produced a film called "Redacted." This was marketed as a supposed documentary on the Fallujah battle. It was later ferreted out as a fictitious "what could have happened" story spun with an incredibly negative slant against our troops and this nation. Free speech is what it is and you are free to support this kind of drivel. Me? I have friends in the military and don't particulary care to support outright slander of their character. That's just me though.