What else do you propose when after 9 months apparently UAX pilots are still getting bumped from their own flights to UAL pilots? I thought the letter was very professional and it has a simple and very clear solution to the problem...

By the way, I’m not UAL nor UAX…

Welcome to the kind of cr@p we have to deal with at UAL. I mean even the simplest little things are denied by this management.

This should take one phone call to fix instead it has to turn into a major ordeal. This is Glens style he loves it!

Just a heads up...no one is going to get denied...but I know most captains will make sure the appropriate priority is followed. A computer doesn't determine who rides in the cockpit...the captain does. The only thing that computer is used for is to ensure you're eligible to sit up there...it's not a promise that you'll make it.

I'm pretty sure UAL pilots would raise all holy hell if UAX pilots where bumping them off of their aircraft. So when the regional's raise a stink, it's "childish". When mainline does it, it's "solidarity". Mainline guys haven't gotten anything right since the 90's and this one is no different. Enjoy it guys.

I'm with Piedmont and I as well as all the rest of our guys would be seriously ticked if a mainline guy or PSA guy took a PDT jumpseat if we were waiting for it. Same as I expect when I'm on one of them that their guys ride before me. That said, I'd be ticked if a non PDT, PSA, or Mainline pilot got the jumpseat on any of our flights because 2nd priority is with the wholly owned-s. Bottom line is that while the computer does not determine who rides, but there are some gate agents who even if you bring it up would refuse to let you down to see the CA... Then maybe you might be lucky enough to wave through the window if there is one or if the CA actually does see you...
Bottom line, they need to fix that problem b/c obviously it is an issue.
Most CAs prob. let someone ride b/c he is the guy who asked w/out knowing their own guy is waiting inside getting the shaft.

on payrates: they currently all suck...i barely cleared 20K last year (pre-tax)...good thing I payed all that money and 5 years of my life for that wage! Its a blast trying to pay for food, housing, crashpad, car, GAS, and loans while taking home $1,000 /mo...

Are you saying that you did not get that clean minty taste? sorry just had to.:D

I'm not UAL or UAX and I never agree with jumpseat wars because nobody wins but we all know gate agents are idiots and will follow the code in the computer... So why can't you just fix the computer. Bottom line there are going to be mainline guys who are standup guys and give up the jump when a UAX guy is supposed to get it and there are those a-holes who are like "I'm mainline gee that's an unfortunate glich SEEYA" If the express carriers actually get their point across to the point where UALPA puts pressure to fix it or even just raise awareness to the point the mainline guy would be ashamed to screw the express guy out of his jump then they accomplished their mission. Obviously this hurts everybody but I just don't get the Mainline against Regional. Everybodys pay sucks. Where did mainline guys get their start? Regionals (used to be called commuters) and at that time they were all getting "stage pay" now most of them have block or better or a rig of some sort. Everybody has to start somewhere, look back twenty years and give yourself a break.

The MEC at UAL are the ones that made the change. And, they are refusing to change it back!!! There is no computer clique. It will only be change back with UALPA approval...

This post, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with our industry.

This probably doesn't mean much coming from me, but I feel for you my brother.. keep your chin up and hopefully this nightmare will be behind us soon and pilots will paid what we truly deserve.

Is that a Tonk in your avatar?

My suggestion- the UAX Captains demand the list of those who to ride from the gate agents for each and every flight. The captains then use their authority to tell the agents who rides on their airplane in the order of the jumpseat agreements. Then the captains spend a couple of minutes either in flight or delaying the flights further to write their Captains reports (or whatever they are called at their individual airline) for why the flight was late- if the computer is broken, manual checks must be made and they take more time, delay more flights, cost more money, and get things fixed once management realizes the new problem. Full denial just seems a bit too lose/ lose to me. Good luck getting this thing sorted out.

Comair, Mesaba, AWAC, ACA, and who knows who else, all had pilot contracts thrown out in BK.

Comair had their 70-seat rates cut 12% (CA) -20% (FO) and after this cut Delta "awarded" them 900s at the judge-imposed 70-seat rate. The new 70/90 seat rate is well below the old 50-seat rate.

Well, unfortunately it sounds like there are pilots out there who only care about themselves. We already knew that.:rolleyes: Hopefully this "glitch" , or whatever it is, gets fixed before this gets REALLLLLL ugly.
On a side note about the above quote...
I am "new" to the "Legacy, major..."whatever, so don't tell me I gave up scope, cause I was still working my way up.
But "back in the day", the "commuters" were TURBOPROPS that only could get into places where the "mainline jet" couldn't (EAS type routes). So they fed the mainline. TODAY, they (regional, commuters, Express Flights...) are taking over "mainline" flying with jets, for turboprop pay!!! Case in point, what used to be an A320 or 737 on DTW-DEN is now a Replacement Jet (RJ). And if the frequencies of these flights were reduced, there would be less congestion, use bigger planes. So we could charge more, and the passengers wouldn't complain (too much?) because they will be closer to on time, instead of ground stopped due to congestion.
OK, the soapbox is away. :o

Actually commuters generally flew into small stations where mainline didnt want to fly or couldnt justify flying "heavy iron" into.

that said... one of the main reasons for the rise of the RJ has been frequency.... 20 years ago.... most city pairs ( other than really high traffic routes ) had three options a day... morning... afternoon and MAYBE evening.... the public wanted ( read demanded ) more frequency so that perhaps a two leg day of flying wouldnt take all day.... the airlines answered with increased frequency of the RJ's.... sometimes replacing but in many cases supplanting in between mainline flights.....

And if you hadnt noticed SBD.... I would hardly call flying ORD-MIA a commuter flight..... or any number of other city pairs....

We as pilots can sit around a throw a fit that we dont like what the airlines have become but frankly it has been happening for many many years. the face of this business will change dramatically over the next 5-10 years...... The mainlines are interested in INTL and high demand domestic... the rest of it is going to be contracted out....

Makes NO difference to me will be interesting to watch however..... my next trip is my last... on to the world of corporate aviation.... good luck all.

Ummmmmm...maybe I wrote it wrong, but that's what I thought I was saying????

I am a SKW Captain and I am against going this far on this issue. Each Captain can control the priority in his or her own JS. It is more of a hassle but I would rather see us work on this a little longer before we start making threats that we don't really want to back up.

The other thing I want to say is that all this back and forth between mainline and regional pilots is exactly what mgmt wants. The reason we are all facing pay cuts and furloughs is because they are not doing their job, which is to make the company profitable. If mainlines were making money then mainline pilots would not be taking cuts to protect their jobs. If mainlines were making money then regionals that do a good job and provide it at a reasonable cost would not have to be constantly looking over their shoulder for someone to come in and take their flying at a cheaper rate while doing a worse job. We need to stick together and blame the mgmt that runs the mainlines into the ground while taking giant payouts for their crappy performance.

http://rofl.wheresthebeef.co.uk/Gun%20Backfire.gif

I offer this as the new UAX jumpseat coalition logo.

Bwa ha ha ha! Awesome...

Not entirely true. ACA's pilot contract was NEVER thrown out in BK. I don't believe AWAC went into Ch.11. UAL exercised being in BK to manipulate the contracts they had with their express carriers at that time and put them all up for rebid.

Both those pilot groups (AWAC/ACA) took concessions in order to get their costs down to compete with MESA and SkyWest.

I'm just trying to understand what is your problem with the United pilots. But reading the extent of your anger throughout your other posts, I'll just assume that you are disturbed. And I didn't say you were ****ed off...perhaps you need to read closer. And yes, the MEC is weak, no question about that. That's why we're in this situation in the first place. But when your airline SURVIVES bankruptcy, there is a certain amount of give-and-take in negotiations. Not that you would know what that's like, as your airline FAILED in bankruptcy. And your MEC bent over while it was still making money under ACA and accepted RJ wages for A319s.

...And that's my point, if your (former) MEC weakly gave in, why are you so critical of the United pilots, when we're all just the same? I'm sorry daddy couldn't get you into United back when the gettin' was good, but timing is everything. Get over it. United pilots are not your problem.

Wow, a UAL 747 CA reads ALL my posts here, I'm flattered. Are you sure UAL "survived" BK? What if the laws were like they are now? What if Wedhoff wasn't santa clause or there was another BK judge? Do you think UAL would have made it?

You really want to get into a wage discussion about who flies for what? How come you make as much (or as little) as a 777 CA? TWO more engines, more people, no more money.

On the topic of RJ wages, are you sure you have your facts strait? When you get more posts, PM me an address and I can email the LOA that dealt with Airbus pay rates. Also, we had pay protection for cnx'ed trips, not matter when they happened. We kept line holder guarantee at 75, didn't reduce it down to 65. Our RJ wages were the highest in 2001, then COMAIR/AWAC upper ours. All before taking concessions. It's the EXACT same process as a the majors. UAL got contract 2000, then DAL brought it up, with AA next in line had 9/11 not happened. Like I said, I'll be happy to send you a copy of the Airbus LOA.

I can't help but laugh. Your busting my chops, after reading your post it seems like you've got issues with the regionals. Remember, we're "all just the same".

Sorry to break it to, UAL wasn't my first choice. Nor my second.

Dude, let it go. Bubble Jet is gone! And remember, "united sucks, ted sucks more", (and Indy Air will liquidate!)

I've read and thought about this potential jumpseat war happening. I don't like the thought of it and no one else does, by judging from their responses. It can all be avoided!

The UAX carriers are asking UAL pilots to tell UALPA and their MEC to fix the computer priority sorting so that it is right. We don't have a problem with main line pilots, only the fact that they bump us off our own flights. Mainline guys would be upset if that happened on their own flights and it would get fixed right away. We have tried to get it fixed for over a year to no avail. This is why we are asking for your help. So instead of getting all fired up on the regional guys, help us out, do the right thing, put the pressure and anger where it rightfully belongs and get the issue fixed there by avoiding a jumpseat war.

This thread sure went stray! Hopefully there's still a United guy or two following it.....

Anyhow, I'm a Skywest pilot, and I just want to say thanks for all of the rides on the 'bus jump seat. It 'aint a Lazy Boy, but it gets me home when the ship is full. I wish we had the opportunity to return the favor more often.

I didn't get the opportunity to voice my opinion on that letter to mainline pilots before our jump seat coordinator put my company's name on it. For that, he will receive a rather explicit email from me. I wholeheartedly disagree with this campaign and am hopeful that very few of our captains will support it. This isn't the right way to go about fixing the problem.

I'm not sure I'll be able to present my credentials to a United captain without feeling some sort of shame because of this. And should I get denied the jump seat because of this campaign, I will be upset to be sure. But that anger won't be directed toward United pilots.

Oh, I know quite a bit about it. In fact, I probably still have a copy of the LOA. Pay rates on paper are one thing. The numbers looked good. But when you bent over and let the company demote your airbus captain longevity from year 15 to year 2, you sold out. That's what I mean by "RJ wages." You like to talk about United's weak MEC. It's TRUE! But your MEC was no stronger.

Where are you now, btw? Are you actively involved in your union? Or are you one of the guys who floods the boards with complaints, but who provides no solutions?

So get off your "high and mighty" and join the rest of us who are just trying to pay our bills and hope our company lasts until we turn 60 (or 65 if you please).