NOT as long as I have a wife <g>

ATL ??!! H ELL .. that is like living in Germantown <G> . . . it is a very short hop. . and there are SO many flights daily between ATL/MEM, that ‘getting’ there is not the issue. I had many guys my relative seniority who commuted from ATL and they had a MUCH higher quality of life than I did (if you discount living close to Jimmy Cahtah), due to their 'proximity’ to the Domicle. A couple even ‘drove’ to MEM for their week to 14 day trips, or to stand RSV.

As you also state, it is ALL about seniority. . . and if you are not able to bid a decent line . . or string a few trips together, so that the days off are also bunched together . .even living in Germantown is h ell on the quality of life.

I commuted 26+ years from SAN. . now. . THAT is a commute and the only way a cross-country trek like that is possible is with LOTS of seniority. But, there are just tons and tons of our ‘peeps’ who commute from the Left Coast -and would not think of any other life style.

I was in the same position about 9 months ago. I was at 16 years in the Air Force, 14 of them flying, and had all service committments complete. After asking the very same questions you are, I decided to stay in. I requested assignment to a pilot training base - guaranteeing that I would remain flying, and still be "in the cockpit" as I hit 20 and try to get a civilian job. Turning down the career advancing staff tour raised a lot of eyebrows up the chain, but at this point I'm happy to be flying a T-38 vice a desk, and feel like it was a great move. Hopefully it'll work out; time will tell...

Question about FTS
 

I know that this is a old bunch of posts, but The Dude is in exactly the same position that I will be here in a bit. FTS is what I am looking at and the questions I have are: How hard is it to get a FTS spot? Are there any statistics posted anywhere, like the O-4 board?
It seems like a great deal, and I will probably apply for VFA/VR/VT, in that order. I know that the VFA reserve fleet has gotten a lot smaller in the last few years, but VR seems like it would be pretty great.

Hornet Pilot-

As with anything else, FTS has its good points and bad points. Check your PM's as I sent you a rather long-winded response. As a VR guy anyway, your days of being "haze grey and underway" are a thing of the past, but your chances of staying in the cockpit past the 15 year mark are getting very limited. Used to be a guy could spend his whole 10 year FTS career (command track or not) bouncing from squadron to squadron and leave at 20 with minimal time out of the cockpit. Those days are pretty much over and most FTS pilots will find themselves on staff, NAR, or other non-flying duty for their last five years or so.

I'm in the same boat (no pun intended) right now as this thread's original poster and the decision is excruciatingly difficult to make. 13 years is alot of time invested into a 20 year retirement, but it is also 13 years invested into being a pilot, which potentially would fall by the wayside sitting behind a desk for the last five.

In the end, the choice is clear...run to the 7-11, buy up some lotto tickets, and scratch like there is no tomorrow. With a little luck the decision will be moot.

Stay In! No matter how promising FEDEX and UPS look now there is no guarantee. I retired (20 year O-5 Air Force) and was hired at Delta (December 2000) Delta was THE AIRLINE (even better than cargo) making a BILLION Dollars, hiring 60/month and getting a contract in July of 2001 that was the GOLD Standard that won't be seen again for MANY MANY years. We had a 2.4%/year pension. That lasted until my furlough in March of 2002. My pension has been the lifeline that has kept me and family afloat. Right now if I went back it would be terminal reserve (18/19 days on call/month with no possibility of working less than that - they make sure you never fill up). We now have NO PENSION (GONE), you have to pay for medical, no upward movement to get off reserve and working for about 80K as reserve slave. You can't replace a 20 year INFLATION INDEXED Pension plus the extra money you will earn on Active Duty (100K plus/year as an O-5 on flying status). Stay in, max out your Thrift Savings Plan and IRAs - the majors (including cargo) will be still be there in 6 years.

Sad story of woe. When I was contemplating an airline career while still on Active Duty the 'place to be' was PanAm. They were not hiring at the time, but, I was offered jobs at both DAL and UAL and opted for UAL, because they were the big dog on the street. In 1970, Delta was not a household name, so I snubbed them. Subsequent to my 'release date' and before I showed for the class date in DEN, UAL furloughed 450 folks who did not get called back until 1978.

Over the years there were many times I regretted snubbing the DAL class date and feeling sorry for myself that the 'timing' was not right for at least getting a senority number at UAL before the furlough. I would now be retired at either one. Scary proposition! Learned to be careful about what you wish for! What was left of my pitiful retirement at either of those places would be in jeopardy and I would be standing in front of the mirror practicing "Do you want fries with that" -or- "Welcome to WalMart" - to subsidize Social Security.

This individual is only speaking from his narrow perspective. There are MANY studies showing that 'cargo' is where it is 'at' and will be for the imediate future.

FedEx and UPS are multi-BILLION (per/yr) corporations, which are well managed and in growth mode. . . .with new aircraft on order and MASSIVE 'Baby Boomer' retirements projected over the next several years. Unlike the PAX carriers, they are making TONS of money (job security), and in my near 30 year experience, the recession years were JUST as good as the boom years, when people cut back on their flying.

If you understand that 'seniority' rules in the airline profession, the SOONER you get that 'number' the better your life will be down the road. If you have good friends at either place, use your contacts to get in the door, get the job. . and get in a VR squadron to continue building towards that nice Navy retirement check. You won't have to play those Active Duty 'games' and you can fly to your heart's content for the rest of your life in uniform.

The ONLY difference is that the Government checks won't start until you turn 60, but that should be a moot point, because neither company has ever furloughed and based upon growth and retirements I don't believe they ever will. If you take the former advice, you will RUE the day, looking at the seniority list with all the guys hired between now and when you make 20 on Active Duty. BESIDES, it sounds like it will really be tough to build flight time and stay current if you are on a staff or riding a desk someplace.

IMHO, I would still stay in. You're right, seniority is everything, except when you are on the street. I don't need to tell you, but remember, Delta never furloughed anyone until the early '90s. Took them off flying in the early '70s but still had a job. A guaranteed check and health care for you and your family for the rest of your life-hard to beat when you have put in that much time.

No one can predict what this industry will be like in 15 years. Perhaps UPS and FedEx will merge someday and furlough thousands of guys, maybe some nutcase will hijack an airplane and wipe out all of the hub at MEM (tried already). All farfectched, but so was the demise of Eastern, PanAm, TWA, Braniff, Flying Tiger and who else......in the late 60s. And what was Fred Smith doing in the late '60s? My whole point is, four or so years to go to a lifetime of government bennies vs. an industry relying foreign oil, cabatoge, and what else. Suppose the gubment decides for a pure foreign open skies and major foreign cargo carriers set up infrastructure here cutting into FedEx and UPS just a little.

Again all wild eyed speculation, but......four years, stay in dude.
S1

Truer words never spoken!

I am sure glad I don't spend MY life caught up in a web of fear and trepidation. The land of ‘what ifs’. . . .maybe you should just stay in bed tomorrow morning . . you might get hit by a bus when you go out your door. Are you guys really Government trained killers?

Being an optimist, you would find me digging in that proverbial large pile of horse poop, just knowing there was a pony around there someplace.

It was a short two weeks after I separated that the world came tumbling down - where I had passed up one airline job for another and found myself out on the streets in front of the DEN training center with no prospects. Everyone with a good airline job who came from a military background has faced this. Some had better timing than others.

BUT you make too much light of the seniority issue. Anyone beyond a certain point in their military aviation career is going to have their flying drastically cut back. So, there you sit, 4-5 years older, not having flown much in those ensuing years . .having lost many HUNDREDS of seniority numbers . .due to timidity and fear . .and you may NOW not even BE ‘competitive; because you will be competing for the job with much younger folks who have been hauling checks at night and rubber dog poop to Hong Kong . You have to wonder what the mind set of the interviewers will be in that case too. “You really didn’t want this job too badly did you?” When you could have had it 4-5 years ago and be senior to everyone subsequently hired

BTW . . .Thanks for reaffirming that I really didn’t screw up by ‘passing’ on DAL way back then. While it would have been nice to have been left seat in a wide body the last several years, chasing FA’s around . . I would now be interviewing for a job bagging groceries at the Albertson’s down the street, due to your management’s gross handling of corporate affairs.

The Navy is a great place to start and an even better place to end! Stay, get the 20. You are going to live long and it's better on the inside than you think! The iron will be there when you get out in 6!

I may disagree with your other assesments, but the above is right on the money.

My entire post was, stay in, get the security and then chase the "DREAM".
The man can have his cake and eat it too. If FedEx and Ups are as secure as you say they are, he will have the job available in a few years, and any money lost may be made up in his Navy retirement, that will never go away. The downside, not being current.