Alaska Airlines to cut as many as 165 pilots
 

From KING5:
SEATTLE - We're learning this Labor Day weekend that as many as 165 Alaska Airlines pilots will lose their jobs.

High fuel prices have put the nation's airlines in a jam. After charging extra for baggage and cutting out meals, employees are next. Alaska Airlines is cutting flights and crews.

Alaska Airlines says it may cut up to five percent of its flights this fall and winter, and perhaps another five percent early next year.

“Fortunately, I missed it, so for now at least, I'll be safe,” said David Campbell, Alaska Airlines pilot. “But I am the typical guy who's getting furloughed. It's mid 30s, generally starting a family. I had a guy in my office last week who just moved here from Texas and was about to close on his house, and is thinking he should probably back out of the deal.”

Campbell is an Alaska pilot and spokesman for the union, the Airline Pilots Association. During our interview, he was also caring for his four-year-old son. He's been an Alaska pilot for six years. The union says those with two years and less seniority are vulnerable.

“What we are really hopeful about in the Airline Pilots Association that we can reduce the number of needed furloughs,” said Campbell.

“What we are doing with the union is offering them three different options to minimize that number. We are offering to work with them on one and two year leaves of absence, as well as early retirement,” said Paul McElroy, Alaska Airlines spokesman.

Just how many flights Alaska ends up cutting and just how many pilots take advantage of these special offers could greatly influence the number of pilots who have to sit on the ground without a paycheck.

It could have been worse. Alaska is adding flights to Hawaii and Minnesota, but it's the flights around the fringes that are getting cancelled, such as red-eyes and some weekend flights that lose too much money.

The airline is also trying to figure out how many other jobs it will need to cut, such as flight attendants and gate personnel.

What a load of B.S. People say I was stupid for leaving Horizon, but even though I am furloughed I still have my sanity!! The Air Group drove me crazy. And look at them now.

This is such a load of "you know what." Gimme a break. Good luck to all the Alaska guys out there.

If they furlough 165, that's to seniority number 1440. In ANC that would be 53 (55%) of the FOs. That's ETOPs training as well a fair amount $$ for moves to ANC unless they significantly decrease the domicile. I suspect the 165 number has more to do with contract negotiations/mediation than to do with 5% reductions.

This is what I don't understand about Alaska. They drive a lot of thier employees crazy and leave so much money on the table.

They drive a lot of thier employees crazy and leave so much money on the table.[/quote]


Isnt that the way of airline management. Pathetic! Good luck y'all!

You guys are in luck because Delta,s hiring in the fall !:)
So get those app,s in !

I don't think Alaska will end up furloughing anyone as it will cost them too much money. Right now from what I'm hearing they want to furlough out of seniority due to a number of MD80 pilots waiting to be trained on the 737. Once they finally figure out that most of their furloughs will come from the ANC base and their ETOPS qualified pilots, I don't think they will carry through with the threat. Besides, Alaska's in contract negotiations and what a better way to try and keep the pilots in line.

It's to seniority number 1340, but that won't happen. It's all just a way to get the old expensive guys to leave now.

I've heard the excuse that its all because the company is in negotiations before. Well that one didn't keep me from being furloughed.

There has been no talk of furloughing out of seniority. The contract does not allow for it. They know all the ramifications of furloughing with the ETPOS guys being most of the furloughs. It is a bluff, pure and simple. There could be a few just to prove that they are willing to do it, but there is no way they would furlough 11% of thier pilots.

If you guys notice in all the mention of furloughs they always say "up to 165". They have no clue how many they are going to send letters to since they have not even put out the incentive package for the over 60 guys or the 12 and 24 month leave offer. They have to wait and see how many guys take the offers and then decide how many people to furlough to prove their point.

I'm sorry you were furloughed, but the financial situations at Spirit and Alaska are very different. Alaska has the ability to take advantage of this downturn like they did after 9/11, if they would just take a little risk. We'll see. With oil at 109 today, anything is possible.

Alaska management is a case study of business greed and ineptitude. I've had many law students ask me about a future as a union lawyer and I tell them to watch the tactics these guys come up with day in and day out. Fascinating how they are willing to take down a once proud airline.

This is the key to your argument. Maybe after the 11th they did a little bit. But other than that when have you seen the air group ever take risk? Pure and simple even with a over advantage over other carriers in the industry they still fail to respond or act. If they were willing to take a risk the company itself would be a hard machine to stop. But with SW and VA barking at the door they think they need to do the normal. Which is hunker down and defend their stake on the west coast. I dont believe that it will be a full 165 but I do think there will be a number in the double digits. Good luck guys I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

On Another note, I just feel bad for anyone furloughed in late fall and early winter. What a bad time of year to be furloughed. Lucky for me it was still early summer and I have been enjoying the best the PAC NW has to offer for the past month. I dont think there is a better time of year to be unemployeed. :cool:

Isn't ETOPS training a two day class and then a check? The folks in the training dept said that would not be hard to spin up new ETOPS guys even with the MD guys clogging up the house. Saretsky said with the capacity cuts they would only really need 99 planes next year to fill the schedule. He may be full of BS but I am just relaying what he said. Maybe folks that are a bit smarter on this can comment. He also said their game now is cash preservation and holding market share with minor expansions where they make sense.

I would say that all the Hawaii flying they are doing was risky. They really weren't sure what the response was going to be, other than the frequent flier redemtions. It has been a huge success with six routes to four islands. On top of that, of the 11 airplanes on order through January, 5 are ETOPS birds. I wonder if they are planning more routes to Hawaii?

As for your furlough, I'm glad you have enjoyed your time off. If I get furloughed this winter......well, winter time is a great time to drink beer. On second thought, any time is a great time to drink beer.:D

but, but, but Saretsky told me I would upgrade in five years.

Well, yeah; When ATA and Aloha shut down, within a week of each other, over 1000+ daily seats in the Hawaii-Mainland market disappeared. I'd say Alaska inherited a windfall.

HAHAHAHAHA! Looks like I will upgrade to 3rd year pay in 5 years now! I'm surprised Saretsky didn't start off selling used cars. It's a shame that our management's complete lack of integrity and credibility destroyed any trust that ever existed. My thoughts are NEVER EVER let a bean-counter be CEO. They view everything as a bottom line and people as cost units to be manipulated. You need a strong leader and visionary running things with the bean-counters around them...not out in front. So, with Bill "Bean Counter" Ayer running things and his suck up parrot Saretsky #2, the culture has been effectively destroyed. I bet a leader like Herb would have flat out fired Saretsky the day he came in and told everyone we were no longer a family but a "community."

If they do furlough up to the 165, what hire date would that be??

Hire date would go back to June of 2006.

As far as the ETOPS training, for FO's it's only a two day class on procedures and additional raft training. The Captains are the only ones that need a line check. Unfortunately it probably wouldn't be that difficult to train up another group for ETOPS. The logistics should still apply as to a particular base of pilots being trained. Unless they wanted to train all of SEA, they would have to train a certain amount of folks, then have a base reduction and pay to move all the new ETOPS FO's to ANC. We'll see if it actually plays out that way.

Saretsky has said a lot of things that don't pan out. Just before the 165 number he was saying 50-70 at the ANC base roadshow. What "truth" do you want to believe?

I heard from someone at todays roadshow in LAX that Saretsky said "it could be closer to 200 furloughs...but thats squishy".

If he wants to see squishy maybe he should look in the mirror...oh wait...that's slippery!:mad:

What is the full training req for the ETOPS cert at alaska? I have read the 2 day training thing or whatever, but why is the flight portion on there is that an FAA requirement for all carriers? Just wondering I have never done it.

Also why wouldn't they just run a recurrent type class to qualify everyone on the ground part of it. Seems like a pain in butt to deal with only certain crews being able to do it. Then just do the flight portion as needed when someone is scheduled to fly that kind of a trip.

I know it sux to be on the short end of the furlough stick. (personal experience) I wish all of you the best of luck. Hopefully those that are faced with it dont have to go through it for too long.

The ETOPS is an add on. After you finish your check ride in the sim and are completely finished ground school. The class then divides into LAX/SEA guys that are scheduled for line OE and ANC guys that come back for two days of ETOPS/CLASS II NAV. You learn regs, procedures, raft drills, exc.. For FO's there is no line experience. For CA's you will have a check airmen in the jump for your first ETOPS flight to help guide you.

All they have to do to train new crews that are displaced from LAX/SEA to ANC is one mass 2-day class for FO's and CA's, then schedule a check airman with a CA for their first crossing. It is really no big deal and will not effect the training program that much.

And people wonder why there is no unity between pilot groups. Kinda makes me halfway hope oil goes to $200.00 a barrel, just to put pressure on your "set in stone, company promise" not to furlough. Although, if JBU ever did furlough, I'm guessing you won't be posting here to have the above comment thrown back at you.

This negotiation process is obviously way over your head WB. Management is deep into the union busting playbook and are playing hardball. Why wouldn't they? Afterall, there are millions of dollars at stake. They don't want to give an inch until it is absolutely necessary and are doing what they can to control the negotiation process and the pilot group.

Wait a second...I'm trying to explain this to someone who can barely write at the fifth grade level. Oops.

Jet-Blow,

Say no more.

Not a factor, I suspect. Most of the pilots displaced to ANC will NOT move there. They'll commute until they can hold SEA/LAX again. I'm sure the Company is counting on this and has empirical data to support it. Given the MD ANC base experience very few people will actually take advantage of the contractual moving expenses.

Now they're talking 11-12% sked reductions and 165 would be about an equal staffing reduction.

I'm not so sure about that, Cappy. There are virtually NO ramifications of furloughing ETOPS guys. Two days of GS and you're good to go. Send a Check Airman on your first overwater leg and its done. The only hitch would be the moving expenses that the Company would be exposed to in a displacement bid and see above for why they're not worried.

Probably true. If a significant number of the guys who are over 60 and turn 60 in the next couple years take the early out, the number of furloughs could be significantly reduced.

In all my prior dealings with Saretsky I've found him to be intelligent and forthright. It always made me wonder how he managed to survive at Angle Lake.

Makes sense to me.

That's the Company line. They've been preaching that since I got hired. Some of you young guys may not remember it, but in '98/'99 they were all hot on "2000 (pilots) by 2000". There have been various versions of that projection back to the '80s.

That just means they're waiting to see how many old-timers pull the ejection handle. If I was eligible, I probably would.

No comment.

I am curious as to how many pilots at ALK are now and will be flying past the age of 60? (Or any anirline) It is NOT a junior pilots faults that a 60+ pilots managae thier retirement poorly, so in my opinion STOP dicking with us junior guys chance to build a retirement!

[QUOTE=WaterBoarder;457351][quote=GolfKilo73;456987]Management is deep into the union busting playbook and are playing hardball. Why wouldn't they? Afterall, there are millions of dollars at stake. They don't want to give an inch until it is absolutely necessary and are doing what they can to control the negotiation process and the pilot group.

I don't get your comment. GolfKilo hit the nail right on the head in his comments. Our union reps are keeping us well informed and we are unified. Is it not good that a pilot has a good grasp of the negotiating process??? I would hope so because so much rides on it. If our management was as free as Jetblues to do what they want then you would see no pension here, a 3% 401 match, the lowest pay scale in the industry, horrendous work rules and guys being fired for almost anything. They are terrible in regards to employee relations here. When you let a bean-counter run an organization everything and everyone becomes a cost unit and leadership is scarce.
If you work at Jetblue, then I would be a bit worried because you have little leverage on anything. Are you supporting the JBPA? If so, good on you! If not, then maybe you should look into a management position because you believe they actually have your best interests at heart! Doesn't jetblue retain Ford and Harrison? Are they part of the ATA? Are they not on the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? Makes you go hmmmmm...but hey, they have your interests at heart!

What makes you think that WB isn't already a management shill? His posts have the taint of troll all over them. Who else but a troll would try to stir up angst in a thread which has nothing to do with their own respective airline.

Point taken. I can't think of anything else that would make any sense in regards to his posts. He is a management shill or seriously delusional.

See what I mean? Troll bait.

Where does this kind of quote come from? Does the payscale at AK top out like almost everybody else's at 12 years? So what's the benefit in getting guys to leave? Maybe you will gain a week or so in vacation payout, but does the savings there really offset the costs for training and such? Not throwin rocks... I just find this interesting...

"See what I mean? Troll bait."

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Let's keep the discussion on topic and leave the personal attacks off the forums.

Some of the reasons I have heard the company offered the early out:
1) Senior guys will want to keep the A plan compared to younger guys
2)Senior guys do have the most vacation and sick leave built up
3)With the MD-80 going away many are sitting around undecided
4)Age 60 and over guys are a big unknown for negotiations

It seems that management is increasing the expected furlough numbers. We have gone from 50 to the latest being 200 furloughs. Management's negotiating tactic of "split and divide" does not seem to be working though.