Transfers
09-02-2008, 11:58 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
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Transfers
I'm just going into flight school next month but I just had a few questions about transferring. Say after you finish flight school you work as instructor and get say 1200 TT and you apply to delta and get the job, you work for them for a few years and accumulate say...5-6 thousand hours, and then wanted to work for a different airline after that and the requirements to make captain was 6000 hours and you had it, could you apply directly for captain with that company? Ive heard some people say you would have to start again as a first year F/O. Any help on this would be appreciated thanks alot.
09-02-2008, 12:03 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
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No, as you move from company to company, you start over at the bottom of the pile. Moving up within a company is based on seniority, otherwise knows as years of service with the company. Check out the Jetcareers.com - Welcome home page for some good "how airlines work for the novice" stuff.
09-02-2008, 12:07 PM
#3
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Position: 767A
Posts: 791
You rarely see that, and only at a new, startup operation. If you change airlines, you start at the bottom of the seniority list. People usually only leave one major and go to another if the former is tanking.
09-02-2008, 12:25 PM
#5
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Position: 767 FO
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There are overseas contract jobs (south east Asia, middle east, India etc) available where you could apply directly for a captains position. Trick is you usuall need a significant amount of Pilot in Command time in the specific aircraft for which you are applying.
Do a lot of research and find the airlines that you'd most like to work for then figure out how best to connect the dots from zero time to competitive applicant. Don't think you'll win the airline lottery right out of flight training, know that you'll struggle earning low wages for several years, and don't be surprised if along the way to your "dream" job you decide that your "stepping stone" becomes the place you want to retire from.
Good luck and welcome aboard.
Do a lot of research and find the airlines that you'd most like to work for then figure out how best to connect the dots from zero time to competitive applicant. Don't think you'll win the airline lottery right out of flight training, know that you'll struggle earning low wages for several years, and don't be surprised if along the way to your "dream" job you decide that your "stepping stone" becomes the place you want to retire from.
Good luck and welcome aboard.
09-02-2008, 12:47 PM
#6
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Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by laxislife
I'm just going into flight school next month but I just had a few questions about transferring. Say after you finish flight school you work as instructor and get say 1200 TT and you apply to delta and get the job, you work for them for a few years and accumulate say...5-6 thousand hours, and then wanted to work for a different airline after that and the requirements to make captain was 6000 hours and you had it, could you apply directly for captain with that company? Ive heard some people say you would have to start again as a first year F/O. Any help on this would be appreciated thanks alot.
You are also missing the fact that with 1200 total time and maybe 500 multi (most likely in Seminoles) you will not get the job at Delta unless you know the president of the company personally.
To accumulate your... say... 5-6 thousand hours... plan on being at that airline 7-8 years. Could you do it in less... sure. Only if you can live with quality of life ZERO.
Yes, you start over again at ground zero. Rarely, if ever, do major ever hire street captains. It happens with the turboprop jobs most often, and occasionally a small regional jet operator... ah la Gojets... which no self respecting pilot would ever tell you accept a job there. They, and a few others, continue to help the profession in it's race to the bottom.
09-02-2008, 12:49 PM
#7
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Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by laxislife
I'm just going into flight school next month but I just had a few questions about transferring. Say after you finish flight school you work as instructor and get say 1200 TT and you apply to delta and get the job, you work for them for a few years and accumulate say...5-6 thousand hours, and then wanted to work for a different airline after that and the requirements to make captain was 6000 hours and you had it, could you apply directly for captain with that company? Ive heard some people say you would have to start again as a first year F/O. Any help on this would be appreciated thanks alot.
Best advice. Get a law degree, or an MBA from a well known university. Then make tons of money and buy your own plane to fool around in. If you end up unemployed, you will get hired at a rate commensurate with your training, education and experience.... without ever having to go back to ground zero as a first year new hire.
09-02-2008, 01:24 PM
#8
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As has been said, you start at the bottom of whatever seniority list you are joining. If you have the required time to be Captain, and they can't fill classes from within you may start out as a Captain. This happened a few years ago with Pinnacle. There was about a six month period where nearly every class had new-hire Captains even though about 600 FO's were senior to them. In order to address this, Pinnacle did what most companies are doing, no one to fill the cockpit?, well, let's just lower the mins for that position and voila, lots of new Captains.
09-02-2008, 04:05 PM
#10
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I know you're new to this, and are trying to "plan" ahead for your career... but if you are falling for the myth of regionals being stepping stones to major carriers... you are in for a rude awakening.
Most majors have not been hiring, the few that were this past year are now basically furlough fodder. Regional managements have been getting wealthy off of new hires willing to take a job for next to nothing pay because they "will only be here a few years." The reality is that even if you got in right now... you will spend the majority of your career at a regional. The mainline carriers are shrinking, consolidating or going bankrupt. The managers do not want to grow the legacy carriers. They would much rather let them go BK, and replace them with workers who have already proven they will work for next to nothing.
So, five or six years when all the 60+ folks start hitting 65 and there are massive openings at whatever remains of the legacy carriers, those seats will be filled by people who started four to five years ago. The folks with more time will have already been regional captains, in seat, for several years and likely unwilling to take the drop in pay to first year new hire at whatever is left of a legacy carrier. So, the 2-5 year captains will be the most marketable, and will still be in a pay category that they "could" take the paycut for a few years. The 3-9 years FO's will have enough time to meet the higher min's required for SIC only time, and will definately take those jobs. So, unless you are in like right now.... or perhaps within the past year it would be best to plan for a regional career... unless you know somebody high up that can not just walk you in, but tell them to hire you above others.
Look through the Boyd Associates and other industry watchdogs and you will see that the growth will be in the regional carriers, while mainlines continue to shrink, merge or go out of business.
So, when you do come on board at one of the regionals, please do not be one of these new hire tools that doesn't care about the union, and doesn't care about upholding the contract. The regional job will be your home for some time. If you are not at your major job by the time you have been upgraded for a few years, in all likelyhood you won't leave.
Upgrades come when your seniority number is reached... as long as you have the minimum times you upgrade in turn. There are plenty of examples of FO's with 15,000 hours that have not upgraded due to no movement at the majors... and around 9,000 at some regionals. It rarely is about hours... mostly just when your number comes up. 99.5 percent of the time, by the time your number comes up, you have enough time to upgrade. The places that occasionaly hire street Captains are the places you probably wouldn't want to work for anyway. If their turnover rate is so high that they can't keep people long enough to have enough time to upgrade what does that tell you about the company? In some cases they are hiring people with fresh multi instrument commercials who have less that 250 PIC... these folks can NEVER upgrade... be careful when selecting your employer.
Most majors have not been hiring, the few that were this past year are now basically furlough fodder. Regional managements have been getting wealthy off of new hires willing to take a job for next to nothing pay because they "will only be here a few years." The reality is that even if you got in right now... you will spend the majority of your career at a regional. The mainline carriers are shrinking, consolidating or going bankrupt. The managers do not want to grow the legacy carriers. They would much rather let them go BK, and replace them with workers who have already proven they will work for next to nothing.
So, five or six years when all the 60+ folks start hitting 65 and there are massive openings at whatever remains of the legacy carriers, those seats will be filled by people who started four to five years ago. The folks with more time will have already been regional captains, in seat, for several years and likely unwilling to take the drop in pay to first year new hire at whatever is left of a legacy carrier. So, the 2-5 year captains will be the most marketable, and will still be in a pay category that they "could" take the paycut for a few years. The 3-9 years FO's will have enough time to meet the higher min's required for SIC only time, and will definately take those jobs. So, unless you are in like right now.... or perhaps within the past year it would be best to plan for a regional career... unless you know somebody high up that can not just walk you in, but tell them to hire you above others.
Look through the Boyd Associates and other industry watchdogs and you will see that the growth will be in the regional carriers, while mainlines continue to shrink, merge or go out of business.
So, when you do come on board at one of the regionals, please do not be one of these new hire tools that doesn't care about the union, and doesn't care about upholding the contract. The regional job will be your home for some time. If you are not at your major job by the time you have been upgraded for a few years, in all likelyhood you won't leave.
Upgrades come when your seniority number is reached... as long as you have the minimum times you upgrade in turn. There are plenty of examples of FO's with 15,000 hours that have not upgraded due to no movement at the majors... and around 9,000 at some regionals. It rarely is about hours... mostly just when your number comes up. 99.5 percent of the time, by the time your number comes up, you have enough time to upgrade. The places that occasionaly hire street Captains are the places you probably wouldn't want to work for anyway. If their turnover rate is so high that they can't keep people long enough to have enough time to upgrade what does that tell you about the company? In some cases they are hiring people with fresh multi instrument commercials who have less that 250 PIC... these folks can NEVER upgrade... be careful when selecting your employer.
