Midwest Airlines plots new course to doom!
 

This afternoon, 9/3/08, Tim H announced the lastest screwed plans for Midwest Airlines. His major plan now, this week, is to cut down the 717s from 25 to 9 (that is not a typo). While hiring Republic to fly 12 EMB-170s to replace those 16 returned 717s. So the new fleet for "Midwest" is planned for:

9 717
12 EMB-170 (Republic)
12 CRJ-200 (SkyWest)

Ground services are already contracted out at MKE and almost all outstations. Midwest Connect RJ flying is all contracted. I think this very well may be the first attempt to run an airline with just an HQ and the rest contractors.

The dominos have been tipped.....

What kind of scope protection does midwest have in their contract? Must not be too much if this is for real.

I wish I could type what I really feel, but that is total bs. These corporations have got to go. They have no respect for the American worker anymore.

If this trend continues we all should bolt. (Hisss!) :mad:

Shut it down! That's just ridiculous. PUKE~~

No clue about the scope clause but I would be suprised if it is only 88 and higher.

Nope, UAL and USAir have been slowly making this same transition for quite a while.

This latest Midwest deal will be closer than UAL and US.

How about this: Midwest will be the first to fully convert to a corporate logo shell game.

How long will it take UPS and FedEx to figure this out and take steps towards becoming a "virtual" airline?

I don't know if it is good or bad for the Midwest or Republic pilots but it is my understanding that Midwest can convert the agreement into an aircraft lease and be operated by Midwest Airlines. Does that mean they would bring their 717 pilots back from furlough to fly the 170s?

It doesn't sound like a good deal for either pilots other than it saved a few RAH pilots from going on the street next month. It also seems odd after Midwest cancelled a lot of the SkyWest flying only to sign a deal with Republic less than 2 months later.

Are you guys owned by NWA? I thought they bought you to avoid a hostile takeover by Airtran? If so do you guys have any rights to employment at NWA/Delta?

Good luck!

RAH CBA doesnt allow any Republic airframe to be operated by pilots not on RAH senority list.

Yes it does, under certain provisions, and only as a dry lease arrangement. Included in those provisions is that the aircraft cannot be operated out of any city our seniority list pilots operate out of. That would limit these planes to odd midwestern city pairings and left coast destinations.

This deal appears to be within the confines of the RAH CBA, but barely. However, I believe Bedford is counting on Midwest to never take these airplanes and operate them on their own. This is a hustle, with RAH offering a shiny glimmer of hope while setting up a dark reality.

I guess some cannot see what is going on here. It is not Timothy H calling these shots. It is TPG who with NWA (soon to be DAL) owns a major minority stake in MEH. What is happening now is two fold. First, it is the first of many attempts at a run around on the DAL Section 1 scope. We will put our flight numbers on these flights as a "Code Share." Two, It solves the AAI issue in MKE by keeping MEH alive on some pathetic level, and have RJ's operate the majority of the flying. Thus, keeping these gates occupied so that AAI cannot make any case to try and make a true go of it in MKE.
Lastly, it deals with the issue of survivorship of the MEH pilot group and what will happen when the final nail is driven in to the coffin.
I assume that leaving nine 717's on the ticket allows the company to state that selling these 717 to someone (anyone) to be a financial transaction and there be no grounds for the pilots to follow them.(Ala just airplanes and not the entire airline) Sucks but it is the same thing that happened when AMR sold the 717. AMR sold the 757's to DAL. DAL sold the 767 to ABX. Needless to say there are many more, but in all instances none of the employees went with the airframes.
As I have stated the events at MEH are far from over. I love that airline. They are truly one of the few that "gets it." It is sad to see this happen. I just hope that we are all wrong and something better than this comes from it.

TPG= bad news for pilots...

NWA and Delta pilots are you listening to this?????

This is why you need to put the Compass Pilots on the bottom of your combined list. This will happen to the new Delta. Call your negotiator while the seniority list is still in arbitration. Don't even mention scope, you have already changed the weight limits in your scope to allow the Emb 175. Scope is just a tool management uses to marginalize unions.

Yes Midwest is owned by NWA and TPG. Rights to work anywhere, that is a big heck no. This whole deal is putting another 200 or so people out of a job.

Fair enough to say. If passengers were bailing on Midwest because they don't give a damn about the normal blue colar people, they surely will stop flying Midwest now that there will be almost no Midwest airlines. I can imagine that the remaining 9 will just be flying to MCI, BOS, LGA, ATL, LAS, PHX.


To all passengers 2x2 means nothing at Midwest anymore. The EMB-170s and CRJ-200s are factory standard in 2x2, stop buying into, which is horribly expensive now, the whole Midwest scam.

The seniority list is maintained by management. We can't just add someone to the list. We could only force the issue if management decided to merge Compass in to the mainline. We could also approach management in contract negotiations about shutting down compass and merging the airline. I heard that the issue was in fact put on the table in the joint contract however it did not go anywhere with management. The weight exemption is however only for the planned aircraft at Compass. It does not apply across the board. The other issue is that if you add compass what do you do with the other owned airlines. I was at a MEC meeting many years ago where the issue of what to do with Comair and ASA was discussed in depth with reps from those airlines there. There was very strong sentiment among the Delta pilot group that we needed one airline and one list. Comair's demand that they be merged DOH or nothing netted them nothing. Their follow on furlough letter from the Comair MEC chairman became famous and is still posted in Delta pilot lounges. It has insured that there will never be much support there.

That stinks. Furloughs most definately to follow, while Republic flies MidEx routes. Very bad, indeed. Probably the beginning of the end of Midwest.

Yes and some how will be the start to the magnificant Tim H. He will come out of this like a God, which is going to make me Puke.

Looks like were in the 9th inning of this ball game.

I agree that this is terrible news.


Sure some Republic guys will be saved a furlough, but ultimately the higher paid Midwest pilots will pay the price, and that is unfortunate. Midwest has been on the fritz for a while, and I think this is the first time I felt they have under a year left.


The only good I can see coming out of this whole thing is if Midwest were to exercise the option to have Midwest pilots fly the EMB-170's. That would be good for the entire industry. I am afraid that Republic pilots would try to fight that. It would be so stupid for them to fight it, but it might happen.

We can only hope...

The catch 22 here is that MEH management gets their way. They wanted the MEH pilots to fly for RJ wages and if that happens they will get what they want.
Most of the planes will have about as many seats at the 717'a did. Difference is that they will not be true first class seats and the pilots will be working for a lot less carrying the same amount of people. Talk about taking it in the coins. This just stinks.

Another name for the blacklist....how about right next to Frank Lorenzo. :D:cool:

Gee..I wonder why Tim H and Leo M. (CEOs of both Midwest Air Group Companies) didn't get their bags when they were traveling these past two weeks. **** off employees, lose your bags.

AmenInteresting.

I like what Republic has done. They have one seniority list flying for Republic, Mid Atlantic, Shutte America, et al. It does not matter which Certificate it is, THE list does the flying. Capturing Compass & the E170/175 need not cost a dime. Have them work under their own contract on a single list. I'd rather scope IN the flying now and fix the contract once the pilots and jets are on the property. We have a better negotiating position that way and pilots do not end up losing longevity as they step across an imaginary line.

You could not be more right about JC's effect.

SHUT IT DOWN!! Bad News for all, Screw Managment and their games.

Agreed, show these scumbags your not going to sign off on being demoted to a career regional pilot. It hurts to lose seniority and a good gig (been there), but this will never resemble what it once was.

Let alone going from mainline payrates to regional pay! SHUT IT DOWN!! I would be shocked if people just sit back and let this happen. Those mgmt pukes are destroying the Midwest pilots lives and careers with this joke.

Fighting for the company to stick to the contract is stupid?

I don't see any good coming from this. Even if the Midwest pilots fly those 170's it will not be for mainline pay. Mgmt tipped it's hands on the pay rates they are planning to pay with the proposed cuts earlier this summer. If management is successful at getting a mainline pilot group to accept regional wages we are all in big trouble. Please explain to me how any of this is "good for the entire industry".

Time to shut it down
 

What a joke.... It's time to shut Midwest down they have screwed over the Skyway's Pilot's now the mainline guy's enough is enough. But don't worry ALPA is right there to collect the Repubic "Replacement Pilots" Due's...:mad:

??? Republic is Teamsters.

I bet your really proud to be part of the same union as those "Replacement Pilot's".... Oh that's right you are going to be replaceing the DHL guy's.....:mad:

Hmm, I smell a troll. :cool:

The only thing the republic pilots can fight is if the company dry leases the airplanes and MW pilots crew them. That is a RAH scope violation.

They will be 76 seat aircraft and no different then if Skywest were to fly crj 700's for MW. I think if the pay rate is right the MW pilots should be happy to take the aircraft. There is no point in swinging your pecker that the E170 is "not good enough for me to fly". If they can get a good pay rate on it that would help a lot of regional carriers pick up the $$.

If we were all one union and I mean everyone this sort of crap would not go down. The problem is that we aren't and never will be, so until management starts caring more about employees instead of shareholders and bonus money this BS is going to exist.

If there were pay rates based on weight instead of seats then the companies would not be able to whip us around by pulling some seats off. Frankly I am not sure why they should not be at regional pay based on 88 seats, 'cause it says Boeing on the hood, that seems like a dumb idea to me. Pay by the pound would be better.

All the RAH pilots can do is abide by their contract, feed their families and pay their bills. I know the MW pilots are better people, better pilots and more deserving but... oh I'll stop there.

We are all in the same frickin boat and barely floating at that. Good luck to everyone. God Bless.

Seems some contradiction in your post. "If we were all one union" followed by "...better people, better pilots..".
The latter attitude prevents the pre-supposition from ever happening.

I know several very good pilots flying various equipment (BE350 thru B767) for various companies. I wouldn't judge their skills, or quality as human beings using your metrics.

MW??? You mean YX right?

Anyhow, there are no shareholders that Midwest (I meanTPG/NWA management) mangement have to please as the airline was taken private 1 year ago. TPG/NWA had failed to do anything, not even drop a penny in the poor bucket until now. They have allowed their $500 Million, keep AirTran away fund, to fail because they don't really care.

As for giving the Midwest flight crews a fair deal to fly the EMB-170 is what YX management did back at the start of summer. They told them to accept a paycut of 45-65% which would pound them smack dab in the RJ pilot payscale. The Midwest crews have flat out told them screw you.

Wait, you want to stick our friendly outstanding YX crews with 88 seat RJ payscales because it was their fault they took the job??!! Midwest management is reponsible for the flying a 717 will 20 fewer seats than standard. Don't blame the crews one second!

Strike 2, UPS pilots are not Teamsters, they're IPA.

Might want to calm down and get your facts straight.

I am sick of RJ's being flown for crap wages... They have become a cancer on the profession.