The real story
Poor guys need a tissue 'cause they got an issue.
09-04-2008, 07:03 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
What a nasty mess!
Parker must love you guys.
You all have got to get your act together and stop killing one another. The Man doesn't have to hold you down. You're doing it yourself.
From an uninvolved outsider a few ideas:
Put up some fences. Accept Nicolau's seniority list if an east guy moves to a west domicile. Accept date of hire if a westie moves to an east base. If US opens a new domicile east of the Mississippi, use DOH, west of the river, Nicolau. If there are Furloughs they go by domicile, not system seniority.
Fair pay. Its always about the money. There shouldn't be a giant discrepancy in pay from right to left seat. Both pilots are doing the same job. If one screws up, the other is going to pay the price too. So pay FO's 90% of CA pay. Then you won't care so much which seat you're in, and a demotion won't bankrupt anyone.
Forgive and Forget. Jesuschristo! Nobody is the bad guy here. Every one is just trying to look after their own best interests, right? Find your common ground - there's lots of it. Get a contract. Get a no furlough clause. Get your scope back. Demand your pensions be re-funded. Demand nobody in management gets a raise or bonus while anyone is furloughed or you're under a concessionary contract. Demand pro-rata raises and bonuses every time anyone in management gets one.
Best of luck. You certainly need it.
You all have got to get your act together and stop killing one another. The Man doesn't have to hold you down. You're doing it yourself.
From an uninvolved outsider a few ideas:
Put up some fences. Accept Nicolau's seniority list if an east guy moves to a west domicile. Accept date of hire if a westie moves to an east base. If US opens a new domicile east of the Mississippi, use DOH, west of the river, Nicolau. If there are Furloughs they go by domicile, not system seniority.
Fair pay. Its always about the money. There shouldn't be a giant discrepancy in pay from right to left seat. Both pilots are doing the same job. If one screws up, the other is going to pay the price too. So pay FO's 90% of CA pay. Then you won't care so much which seat you're in, and a demotion won't bankrupt anyone.
Forgive and Forget. Jesuschristo! Nobody is the bad guy here. Every one is just trying to look after their own best interests, right? Find your common ground - there's lots of it. Get a contract. Get a no furlough clause. Get your scope back. Demand your pensions be re-funded. Demand nobody in management gets a raise or bonus while anyone is furloughed or you're under a concessionary contract. Demand pro-rata raises and bonuses every time anyone in management gets one.
Best of luck. You certainly need it.
09-04-2008, 08:34 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Gave up. Staying retired.
Posts: 111
"......"I've done a lot of these," he says. "And this was just the most extreme intransigence I've ever seen."......
This has been a problem for a long time. Alienating themselves doesn't seem to be a concern. That has me wondering if the East group actually ever understood the term "Union"? It doesn't mean "me", or "mine only".
Anyone in here ever get everything their way in life? I know I haven't.
This has been a problem for a long time. Alienating themselves doesn't seem to be a concern. That has me wondering if the East group actually ever understood the term "Union"? It doesn't mean "me", or "mine only".
Anyone in here ever get everything their way in life? I know I haven't.
09-04-2008, 08:39 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
I suspect "boss" has little invested in the profession. He does the crybaby thing well but doesn't appear to be apart of anything for airline pilots as a group other than his own benefit.
09-04-2008, 08:52 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by GW258
I suspect "boss" has little invested in the profession. He does the crybaby thing well but doesn't appear to be apart of anything for airline pilots as a group other than his own benefit.
09-04-2008, 09:13 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
I'm still learning this site, having problems editing.
Airline pilots need to be one and understand management cares less about you and your families quality of life. They are beating up the profession pretty bad because they can. They can because pilots are not a threat to them. That started when we stopped being a union, when we moved from abiding by set rules. Argue what you want but seniority must exist if we are to ever recover what has been lost.
Airline pilots need to be one and understand management cares less about you and your families quality of life. They are beating up the profession pretty bad because they can. They can because pilots are not a threat to them. That started when we stopped being a union, when we moved from abiding by set rules. Argue what you want but seniority must exist if we are to ever recover what has been lost.
09-04-2008, 11:24 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Holy crap, what a freakin mess. I can't even believe this is what airline piloting has come to be.
Good thing I decided to work on a becoming a science teacher and just fly for fun....
And I basically agree wwith robthree. These people simply cannot exist as one unified group. There's too much hate. The best thing is to keep them separate and use two seniority lists with a focus on domicile seniority.
Good thing I decided to work on a becoming a science teacher and just fly for fun....
And I basically agree wwith robthree. These people simply cannot exist as one unified group. There's too much hate. The best thing is to keep them separate and use two seniority lists with a focus on domicile seniority.
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