Delta MEC letter April 4
#21
Originally Posted by CVG767A
There are ALOT of guys here who seem like they want to strike. Right now, one of ALPA's biggest jobs is keeping emotions down, and reminding pilots that our goal is a contract, rather than a strike.
The best weapon to avoid a strike is to be willing and prepared to strike. Than again, your adversary has to believe you will execute, and if that's the case it will never come to a strike. Its a big head game, like the ultimate poker hand, winner takes all, but with stakes that's are real to the livelihoods of a lot of people. On the face of it, it would seem if striking would be a symmetrical risk, both to the worker and manger/owner. But in the age of BUSH the risks are decidedly skewed against the workers and toward management/stockholders. In the case of bankruptcy, the shareholder is hosed and (upper) management is the only ones in a win-win situation. If the company desolves, they take (their) millions ("earned" while "managing" the company into the ground) and go elsewhere (or just play golf, I'd retire if I could stuff a couple mil under the bed during "good times")
If labor, caves, you reap big bucks as the stock rebounds from nothing and you "reward" yourself s for your fiscal due diligence.
Good luck, Delta pilots, we all stand to benefit if you prevail. If you don't, despite the comments of some, we will all be the loser, but none less than the 'Delta people' who for so many years, set the standard for service in an industry often criticised for a lack there of. Hang in there!
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
jack,
Being an active Delta pilot, I think your statements are dead wrong. We all have had plenty of time to plan "plan B", and are ready to strike. I am active in the union preparations for the strike. If you had all the details of what the company wants from us, maybe, just maybe you would understand. Mark my words, we will strike if the PWA is rejected.
Regards,
Shuttle Dog
willing to burn the house down.
Being an active Delta pilot, I think your statements are dead wrong. We all have had plenty of time to plan "plan B", and are ready to strike. I am active in the union preparations for the strike. If you had all the details of what the company wants from us, maybe, just maybe you would understand. Mark my words, we will strike if the PWA is rejected.
Regards,
Shuttle Dog
willing to burn the house down.
#23
Thanks for your support and insight, Don. You're right- this is the ultimate round of poker. The next two to three weeks are going to get ugly. I'm mentally (and logistically) prepared for the end of my flying career. I thought that would be a big deal, but, surprisingly enough, it's not. I've had a good run here, but could easily move to the next chapter of my life. That's probably the attitude needed to play this hand all the way.
#24
It has been said that there is no truth, only perception. While I might not completely agree with the statement, I believe that it might be useful to adopt the concept while analyzing the following:
There are two essential ingredients that differentiate between a threat and a deterrent. Absent these ingredients, the adversary perceives nothing more than a threat. If the adversary perceives these two elements, the threat becomes a deterrent.
The first essential element is the ability to carry out the threat. When the world hosted two super powers, each kept the other at bay with the ability to inflict severe damage, cripple if not destroy, the other. Remember, though, it is the perception that is more important than the truth. What was important was that the USSR believe that the USA had the power to destroy, whether that power actually existed or not.
In order for DALPA pilots to wield the influence at the negotiating table that they deserve, DAL management must perceive that they have the ability to carry out a strike. I believe that we could all agree that a strike would spell the demise of Delta and it's feeders, but the ability to strike is not so clear. Delta management might be under the impression that a strike would not be allowed under the law. They might be under the impression that a judge might bar a strike or a Presidential Review Board may be convened. I believe that such a view is grossly misguided, but it's hard to tell what's in their minds.
The second essential element is the willingness of the party who wields the power to actually USE that power. Not only did the USSR have to believe we COULD wipe them off the face of the earth, they had to believe that we WOULD wipe them off the face of the earth if it came right down to it. Delta management has to perceive that not only CAN DALPA strike, but they absolutely WILL strike. I believe that DALPA pilots have sent a very strong signal that they will strike if pushed to the brink.
So, the question is, how smart is Delta management? Will they perceive the reality of a strike, both the ability and willingness of the pilots, and negotiate in good faith to prevent such a confrontation? The monkey is really on their backs. The pilots have been backed into a corner, and it's up to management to provide a way out. If they fail, and leave the pilots no other option, the blame for the consequences rests squarely on the shoulders of the management that has recorded such a stellar track record up to this point.
I'm hopeful that management will see the light, but I'm not optimistic. I know that the smart DALPA pilots already have a Plan "B" cooking. Whatever happens, best wishes to you all - - you make the industry proud.
- The truth only hurts if it should -
There are two essential ingredients that differentiate between a threat and a deterrent. Absent these ingredients, the adversary perceives nothing more than a threat. If the adversary perceives these two elements, the threat becomes a deterrent.
The first essential element is the ability to carry out the threat. When the world hosted two super powers, each kept the other at bay with the ability to inflict severe damage, cripple if not destroy, the other. Remember, though, it is the perception that is more important than the truth. What was important was that the USSR believe that the USA had the power to destroy, whether that power actually existed or not.
In order for DALPA pilots to wield the influence at the negotiating table that they deserve, DAL management must perceive that they have the ability to carry out a strike. I believe that we could all agree that a strike would spell the demise of Delta and it's feeders, but the ability to strike is not so clear. Delta management might be under the impression that a strike would not be allowed under the law. They might be under the impression that a judge might bar a strike or a Presidential Review Board may be convened. I believe that such a view is grossly misguided, but it's hard to tell what's in their minds.
The second essential element is the willingness of the party who wields the power to actually USE that power. Not only did the USSR have to believe we COULD wipe them off the face of the earth, they had to believe that we WOULD wipe them off the face of the earth if it came right down to it. Delta management has to perceive that not only CAN DALPA strike, but they absolutely WILL strike. I believe that DALPA pilots have sent a very strong signal that they will strike if pushed to the brink.
So, the question is, how smart is Delta management? Will they perceive the reality of a strike, both the ability and willingness of the pilots, and negotiate in good faith to prevent such a confrontation? The monkey is really on their backs. The pilots have been backed into a corner, and it's up to management to provide a way out. If they fail, and leave the pilots no other option, the blame for the consequences rests squarely on the shoulders of the management that has recorded such a stellar track record up to this point.
I'm hopeful that management will see the light, but I'm not optimistic. I know that the smart DALPA pilots already have a Plan "B" cooking. Whatever happens, best wishes to you all - - you make the industry proud.
- The truth only hurts if it should -
#25
Originally Posted by TonyC
- you make the industry proud.
- The truth only hurts if it should -
- The truth only hurts if it should -
The rest is just good entertainment.
#26
This is scary...I`m a retired Delta pilot and thankfully I`m not involved in this. Just watching from the sidelines. To show just how far out of touch with airline operations the idiots now running' Delta are, They have initiated a program with a catchy title (which alludes me...CRS has hit), something like"Delta by starlight" or "Delta after dark". The plan is for employees to come to work at midnight, on their day off and clean aircraft, for no pay. These are the very same people who have just had their paycheck raped.As the admiral, standing on the bridge of the "Savo Island" in Mitchner`s "Bridges of Toko Rei" said "Where do we get such men?" ... I think the answer is Harvard Business School.
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guys,
It has been a fun 28 years for me and my only regret was that we senior slugs left the airline bidnez worse off than we found it. If good intentions count (and they don't) we had 'em.
Our pilot group operated in the fog of self assurance for too long. Eastern? Pan Am? It'll never happen to us, etc.
Back then, senior guys like me could schedule trips in such a way that our regular days off could be linked by a two-week vacation, which would stretch the total time off to four weeks. If I remember correctly, we also got five paid personal days -- and this was during a time when the airline made record profits. Drinking on deadheads to a layover was encouraged. Our biggest onboard problem was choosing between the steak and the lobster. Smoking in the cockpit was allowed and brought some pretty nice, smoking flight attendants up for a foot rub by yours truly.
DC-10 Captains in 1977 made enough money to buy two pickup trucks a month. Engineers never paid for a beer. The party on layovers was generally in my room and the booze was free, courtesy of "survival kits" packed in air-sickness bags provided by the flight attendants I kept giving those foot rubs to.
Nobody ratted on anybody else. Conflicts were handled in-cockpit and you could actually go into a chief pilots office and volunteer that you screwed up on something.
Chief pilots back then were older guys who played a lot of golf and didn't go to the office much. They wouldn't think of telling you, as it happened in my case, that you were abusing sick leave when the truth was that you were dying of cancer. (Not that I'm bitter about that.)
If you did get summoned to see the big Kahuna at the General Offices, he bought you lunch. Remember, those were gentler times.
We went from a smallish, well-run, obscenely profitable airline that knew it's market to a huge company owned and managed by N.Y. bankers and MBA types that never loaded a bag or pulled a chock, and perfumed princes who I wouldn't hire to mow my lawn because they'd hold too many meetings about how to use the starter rope.
I can't tell you how much I detest those guys. They took something beautiful and fun and turned it into a charnel house of back-stabbing, PowerPoint charts, elitism and idiocy. At every turn they screwed the pooch, peed in the pool and blamed us, the pilots.
We went from being the highest paid in the country and being considered by management as the airline's greatest asset to being the least paid, least regarded in the industry and considered by the perfumed princes as liabilities. They made the atmosphere so rank with their incompetence that over a thousand of the most senior guys, including this one, bailed out of the best job on the planet because we have zero optimism for the airline's continued survival.
Even now I get so angry when I think about it that the drugs I'm taking for this cancer thing won't calm me down. Sure, I might have fought to get my medical back and in a few years I might have made it -- but for what purpose? I'd take a pay cut coming back to the line.
Besides, who the hell would care? When I was on the line and sicking out every other trip due to the uncontrolled growth of an unknown lung tumor, I heard weekly from the chief pilot about their latest pie chart on how you pilots were "gaming the system." When I spent a month this summer in the hospital literally dying, I never heard a peep from anybody at our "family airline." Not a "How are ya?" Not a "Kiss my ass" -- nothing.
So much for 28 years of "loyal service"!
I'll be like most early retirees -- I desperately miss the flying and I even more desperately miss you guys, but management that wouldn't be able to run a Sonic drive-through on a slow day and the "job" itself?
Nah!
It is time to literally drain the swamp around my hurricane-damaged house, rebuild and get on with things. Maybe I'll finally get that big rig and do the truck driving I always threatened to do. I'll definitely keep flying the Champ.
It looks like, with the airlines backing out of their pensions, me and the wife will have to get jobs. I hope I can say, "Welcome to Walmart," without having a seizure.
So -- goodbye, I guess.
It was an honor flying with you. Thanks for covering my ass for all those years (you know who you are).
I love you guys.
Coonass
It has been a fun 28 years for me and my only regret was that we senior slugs left the airline bidnez worse off than we found it. If good intentions count (and they don't) we had 'em.
Our pilot group operated in the fog of self assurance for too long. Eastern? Pan Am? It'll never happen to us, etc.
Back then, senior guys like me could schedule trips in such a way that our regular days off could be linked by a two-week vacation, which would stretch the total time off to four weeks. If I remember correctly, we also got five paid personal days -- and this was during a time when the airline made record profits. Drinking on deadheads to a layover was encouraged. Our biggest onboard problem was choosing between the steak and the lobster. Smoking in the cockpit was allowed and brought some pretty nice, smoking flight attendants up for a foot rub by yours truly.
DC-10 Captains in 1977 made enough money to buy two pickup trucks a month. Engineers never paid for a beer. The party on layovers was generally in my room and the booze was free, courtesy of "survival kits" packed in air-sickness bags provided by the flight attendants I kept giving those foot rubs to.
Nobody ratted on anybody else. Conflicts were handled in-cockpit and you could actually go into a chief pilots office and volunteer that you screwed up on something.
Chief pilots back then were older guys who played a lot of golf and didn't go to the office much. They wouldn't think of telling you, as it happened in my case, that you were abusing sick leave when the truth was that you were dying of cancer. (Not that I'm bitter about that.)
If you did get summoned to see the big Kahuna at the General Offices, he bought you lunch. Remember, those were gentler times.
We went from a smallish, well-run, obscenely profitable airline that knew it's market to a huge company owned and managed by N.Y. bankers and MBA types that never loaded a bag or pulled a chock, and perfumed princes who I wouldn't hire to mow my lawn because they'd hold too many meetings about how to use the starter rope.
I can't tell you how much I detest those guys. They took something beautiful and fun and turned it into a charnel house of back-stabbing, PowerPoint charts, elitism and idiocy. At every turn they screwed the pooch, peed in the pool and blamed us, the pilots.
We went from being the highest paid in the country and being considered by management as the airline's greatest asset to being the least paid, least regarded in the industry and considered by the perfumed princes as liabilities. They made the atmosphere so rank with their incompetence that over a thousand of the most senior guys, including this one, bailed out of the best job on the planet because we have zero optimism for the airline's continued survival.
Even now I get so angry when I think about it that the drugs I'm taking for this cancer thing won't calm me down. Sure, I might have fought to get my medical back and in a few years I might have made it -- but for what purpose? I'd take a pay cut coming back to the line.
Besides, who the hell would care? When I was on the line and sicking out every other trip due to the uncontrolled growth of an unknown lung tumor, I heard weekly from the chief pilot about their latest pie chart on how you pilots were "gaming the system." When I spent a month this summer in the hospital literally dying, I never heard a peep from anybody at our "family airline." Not a "How are ya?" Not a "Kiss my ass" -- nothing.
So much for 28 years of "loyal service"!
I'll be like most early retirees -- I desperately miss the flying and I even more desperately miss you guys, but management that wouldn't be able to run a Sonic drive-through on a slow day and the "job" itself?
Nah!
It is time to literally drain the swamp around my hurricane-damaged house, rebuild and get on with things. Maybe I'll finally get that big rig and do the truck driving I always threatened to do. I'll definitely keep flying the Champ.
It looks like, with the airlines backing out of their pensions, me and the wife will have to get jobs. I hope I can say, "Welcome to Walmart," without having a seizure.
So -- goodbye, I guess.
It was an honor flying with you. Thanks for covering my ass for all those years (you know who you are).
I love you guys.
Coonass
#28
Thank you, Joel. One of the things that management and passengers will come to regret most is that their short-sighted greed is driving away, and will prevent hiring, great pilots like yourself.
You are a class act, and I enjoyed flying with you. My prayers for you and your family.
You are a class act, and I enjoyed flying with you. My prayers for you and your family.
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